Raging at Boris Johnson's irresponsible response to Covid 19

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BJ said I must level with you, I must level with the British public: many more families are going to lose loved ones before their time

How fucking dare he. This kind of phrase belongs in a rousing speech where the public are asked to come together to do what we can to help prevent those deaths. e.g. not going to large events, doing social distancing.

Not one which says "business as usual".

There was a government adviser on the radio saying they've not banned sporting events because they're in the open and in sunlight.

What about those events undercover? Or after dark? If that's the case why aren't they banned?

They're saying they're acting on scientific advice, but they're adding a layer of interpretation which is about what they think is possible.

They lack faith in their ability to communicate what needs to be done to the population and they think we're all idiots who won't do it, basically. So they've taken the decision that they can't help people dying.

I don't know on what basis BJ and his government is making decisions, but it's not with our best interests at heart.

It's a "don't panic"'message from a government scared and disrespectful of the population, not leadership in a time of crisis.

Fucking raging.

Loppy10 Hear hear.

To not take active measures to delay the spread, you end up becoming Italy in a few weeks. That does nothing to 'flatten the curve'.

I'll post this again. Wuhan had 3000 cases at the point of shutdown. Within 14 days of shutdown, the virus had peaked. Wuhan had 5416 deaths.

We currently have less than 1000 cases. Boris is saying it is inevitable that at least 60% of us will get this to afford herd immunity, giving an estimated 400,000 deaths.

Do we really think his is the better approach?

And we have very similar population numbers.

And if China needs to shut down again, it suffers another 5000 or so deaths in the process. Yes, it might have further waves, but it knows how to deal with them, and knows it can.

Sorry, that's 3000 cases PER DAY at the point of shut down. We are NOT beyond the point of containment.

However, evidence and analysis shows that an EARLIER shutdown in Wuhan would have saved more lives.

I think people are missing the fact that, according to their modelling, the single most effective measure, with the number of cases we have, with the transmission pattern that we have, at this time is to get people with ANY respiratory symptom to self-isolate for 7 days.

They have said, explicitly, that they have taken the specific measure that their model suggests will do the most good, and will phase in others when the time comes.

I get that it's not dramatic, and therefore people feel like it's nothing, but they have actually very clearly said they believe it to be the step with the biggest potential impact, currently.

what measures were announced to delay/flatten the peak

The CMO and CSO seem to feel that the 'self isolate for 7 days if you have new cough/fever' tactic is HUGE and is the answer at this stage to flattening out the curve

I don't know if this is true, but after reading MN and the people (idiots?) who can't /won't do this - you can kind of understand why the experts don't want to give 'us' too much to cope with at once 🙄

@chatterbugmegastar indeed. People don’t seem to understand that ISOLATING YOURSELF FOR 7 DAYS IF YOU HAVE A COUGH OR A FEVER is a massive measure that is modelled to be the biggest thing to slow this thing down. Bigger than banning gatherings (where people are more likely to then hole up in small spaces with mates) or closing the schools. That stuff will all happen in due course. But for now we have to stagger this. And the biggest slow down lever now if you ISOLATE YOURSELF IF YOU HAVE A COUGH OR A FEVER. And all this whining that they haven’t done the more obvious things people understand is diverting us from what we need to do to have the greatest effect. Just because it doesn’t sound headline-like or sexy people thing it won’t work. We need to get with the programme and trust the brains behind this and not take measures that sound good but have less effect. They will come. ISOLATING YOURSELF FOR 7 DAYS IF YOU HAVE A COUGH OR A FEVER may not sound big. But it is. So get with the programme to protect us all. Many thanks.

Absolutely @Bool - well said

I despair of (some) people - really I do

I only realised how 'big' a measure it is when we started implementing it at school yesterday. Some people are really resistent to saying home when 'its probably nothing' if people follow this it would nake a difference as our national psyche is to just keep goung out and doing stuff till we cant.

The government has u-turned in respect to mass gatherings. People, including the queen (bet she doesn't trust bj as far as a 93-year-old could throw such a wobblebottom) are basically self-enforcing social distancing. Which I think means not meeting up with others in groups! So, the government is now claiming responsibility (too late, too late).

By the way, most people aren't in the financial position to self-isolate for 7 days for a sore throat. It is completely wrong to put that responsibility on individual employees when they could face the sack. Or small business-owners when they could go under. They need support - both moral and financial - from the government. As usual the government takes the cheapskate option and shifts the blame to those at the bottom.

Some people are really resistent to saying home when 'its probably nothing' if people follow this it would nake a difference as our national psyche is to just keep goung out and doing stuff till we cant.

Yes it is in our national pysche. The Bradford formula basically promotes sickness as skiving. I have been told off for taking sick days when ill. Apparently, I should work through a cold. Colleagues make snarky comments and mentally record who rings in sick. That mentality is not going to erased overnight. (Or does turn the opposite way and mutate into social contempt of those who carry on working?)

Personally i still think #BorisOut

Dont trust him.
People wont stay in with a cold.
Also most contagious before symptoms anyway. And unlike flu this isn't distinguishable - from cold or flu symptoms. So you could also get sore throat or runny nose just more people dont. Really the only deciding factors are the cough and dificulty breathing.

Also if you live with others. Infectious from day 1 as thats when you could become symptomatic. So really the rest of the family are spreading it along with you too.

I was wondering how many oldsr people like
Queen and Royal family
Rich friends young or old

Are putting pressure on for this to be dealt with quickly so they can go about again.
Airline bosses, retail business.

Tbh it's rather a conflict of interest our lives vs economy so health needs to be separate.
Because realistically at 90+ if this isnt quick Q would need to hide away foe months

@Whowantstogotothepark ufff the government HAVEN’T U turned on big social gatherings. They said it was going to happen but just NOT YET because it doesn’t have as big an impact as SELF ISOLATING FOR 7 DAYS IF YOU HAVE A COUGH OR A FEVER.

@jerseygaly please get with the programme. It is our chief medical officer and chief scientist you have to trust. Boris is saying what they are advising.

Chris Witty managed the Ebola outbreak in Africa 2013-16. I trust him more than some people on here whining.

people won’t stay in with a cold

And that is what will spread this faster. Not ‘not shutting schools’. Do people really need to be shut down by the government and lack any level of personal responsibility. Sadly it seems yes and that will be our downfall. But conveniently we will blame the government.

There is no evidence that herd immunity develops. It's wishful thinking at best
There is evidence that social distancing works, at least to slow it down, flatten the curve and make it more manageable.
The (very) limited testing the goverment plans to do is a purely political decision, intended to save money and keep people in the dark about the situation. From a scientific point of view, it makes no sence.
Also, by the looks of it, there will be very limited healthcare provision for these who need it.

Ah and now we have a new Chief Scientist. Couldn’t make it up.

those who need it

Bool really??

Bool You seen really taken with this chief scientist, as if he's the only person in the world with a knowledge of infectious diseases. I'm sure he's a well respected and competent person, but the fact remains that he is interpreting the available evidence in an entirely different way to almost everybody else in his field.

Tardigrade001 is absolutely correct about herd immunity and many many experts have said the same thing over recent days. The CMO and CSO are making a big assumption here because we do not know if herd immunity can be achieved with this virus. Even if it can, by not taking more assertive action, you're basically accepting that the vulnerable will die and that 4-8 million people (based on the govt's own projection of 60% infection) will be ill enough to require hospitalisation. The NHS cannot cope with these numbers, which means a high mortality rate in the UK and doctors having to choose who lives and who dies. This is happening in Italy right now.

I don't believe that the CMO and the CSO are so much more knowledgeable than their international peers, simply by virtue of being British.

Final point, the change in approach on mass gatherings, one day after giving that press conference, is absolutely a U turn. I don't know how anyone can argue otherwise with a straight face. They've been bounced into it because organisations went ahead and took protective measures themselves.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ab036c3e-656e-11ea-8024-40a080f12cd1?shareToken=8539f6e025661e1a00086e0ba24a535a

Janice Turner making a point I hadn't thought of:

Perhaps the prime minister’s strategy is smarter than he’s given credit for by those demanding a total government shutdown. Instead of issuing diktats he has offered a sombre warning — “I must level with you: many families are going to lose loved ones before their time” — then left us to process that dread thought and reach our own conclusion. It’s reverse psychology: ordered to stay home for three months, we’d sneak out like grounded teenagers. Instead, people are holing up voluntarily because they’ve thought about it hard and are scared.

Perhaps this is the behavioural science input we've all been hearing so much about?!

Come to think of it, I've never heard of 'herd immunity' used in the context of any actual infections, only vaccinations. Even if it does develop (and that's a big if), then how is it achievable/managable? Has anything like that been done before?
The more you question it, the stupider it sounds.

@Sakura7 please explain clearly how our CMO and chief scientist are interpreting the data entirely differently from everyone else in the world? They are trying to dampen the curve. That is what everyone else is doing. Their advice is that the best way to do that at this stage is handwashing and not spreading our own germs by self isolating. We will close schools. But they say it is not necessary yet. We are at a different stage to Italy. And anyway who says what Italy or even China have done has worked.