The Lancet coronavirus hub - latest research and comment www.thelancet.com/coronavirus. Please provide updated link if possible, I haven't been able to make this one work.

JAMA coronavirus research centre jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/pages/coronavirus-alert

For research on CV and babies:
jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2761659

Please add in other links for any wanting to increase their understanding and decrease their anxiety!

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Round up of one-liners gathered from the wisdoms across the threads, with links...

Work is progressing on vaccine, take 1yr -18 mths for safe use.
First human trials of vaccine started
www.livescience.com/us-coronavirus-vaccine-trial-recruiting.html

Advice for anxiety
www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/Resources/Looking-After-Yourself/Anxiety

WHO advice to the public
www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public

Specialist asthma sufferers advice here:
www.asthma.org.uk/about/media/news/Coronavirus/

In the coming days, guidance for healthcare professionals on Coronavirus (COVID-19) infection in pregnancy will be published by the RCOG, Royal College of Midwives, Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, Public Health England and Health Protection Scotland
....
www.rcog.org.uk/coronavirus-pregnancy

A plea,

to remember to help food banks stay stocked up
to give older, or maybe lone, neighbours your phone number with offers to help with shopping and medicine collections

Life expectancy of virus on surfaces
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195670120300463#

sodium hypochlorite drum to kill virus

The stance on profiteering from CV
www.gov.uk/government/news/cma-statement-on-sales-and-pricing-practices-during-coronavirus-outbreak

A survivors story - only ONE story remember!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-51714162/how-i-recovered-from-coronavirus-and-isolation

Irreversible lung damage? Aids/sars effects
amp.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/chinese-doctors-say-coronavirus-like-a-combination-of-sars-and-aids-can-cause-irreversible-lung-damage/news-story/f58f19c5eeae99b845c54e2d2b9305ca?__twitter_impression=true

The efficacy, or otherwise of sanitisers
www.bics.org.uk/coronavirus-dr-andrew-kemp-jp-phd-reports/

Sign the petition for action against CV19
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/300403

Travelling, making other decisions around
exposure
read up, noone can decide for you, but be aware...
Your mode of transport (train/boat/plane) is unlikely to be disinfected.
You may not be welcome back at work (forced isolation unpaid because you decided to take risk)
Getting stuck in quarantine in another country, subjected to their health service and govt restrictions on you.
What happens with your dc and school upon return.
Holiday insurance cover?

Positive ways of coping

Exercise daily, out where you won't be in close proximity (greater than 2 metres)

Eat well, healthy foods, plenty of liquid

Include natural antivirals in diet and good levels of daily vit c

Rest

Take steps to address any raised anxiety, above what might be reasonable and normal steps for keeping viral hygiene under control.
Its normal to feel more anxious, and normal to take steps to manage situation by being well prepared.

Isolation Issues

Getting sufficient shopping in on low incomes, and/or vulnerable / already isolated

Keeping on top of KEY METERS - need to top up yet in isolation - what measures are there to help

Paying mortgage/rent (private & housing associations) if not receiving sick pay

Legislation that enforced isolation = sick (for sick pay purposes)

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Primary mode of transmission is airborne droplets.

Sneeze or cough into elbow (or tissue and bin it). Droplets can travel 2m.

Secondary means of transmission touch.

Hand wash to
Break the transmission cycle from hand to mouth, eyes, nose, or to others, by 20 seconds plus thorough hand washing (soap and water).

Alcohol breaks down the outer layer of virus to effectively kill, other methods may not.
(Anti bacterial does NOT do this and overuse may risk bacterial resistance).

Use 2/3rds vol alcohol to any other additive

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Huge thanks to all contributors; for updates and trying to keep to trusted sources of information.

The community here has been supportive and respectful despite worries, and that can make a huge difference in unknown times.

thoughts go to all those affected, in whatever way.

OP posts:

Thread gallery

RedToothBrush · 10/03/2020 21:49

Do you have or are in close contact with someone who has tested positive?

Honestly are we going down the route of saying acedotes of people here? Over and above the warnings of health professionals warning that the system isn't going to be able to cope with the cases that are serious?

It doesn't really matter if most people survive if there are a large number of people who could have survived but didn't because they lived in the UK instead of say Germany because of the state of our health infrustructure.

Going on about how it's great that most people survive and not talking about the number of people who didn't survive but could have if the NHS were better equipped is the issue. These deaths are ones which are technically termed 'preventable'.

Original poster

usernameishistory · 10/03/2020 21:49

@RedToothBrush

Coronavirus doesn't give a fuck about your feelings.

No, agreed.

But I do think we should

OP posts:

Wherestuffbelongs · 10/03/2020 21:49

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

picklemewalnuts · 10/03/2020 21:50

Tobermory, the thread I linked talks about certain categories of patient not even being assessed, and the screenshot I posted confirms it is happening elsewhere in Italy, too.

Italy had more capacity than the U.K. generally has.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/03/2020 21:50

imo, 3 worries being discussed here:

Could the NHS have insufficient ventilators or ECMOs to treat all CV-19 when the peak of the epidemic comes
In particular what is the relative priority for children
would asthma or other comorbidities cause a patient to be given lower priority than normally healthy patients if there were a shortage of ventilators or ECMOs
Continuing treatment of non-CV conditions like asthma
Obviously depends on the number of patients and the number being treated at the time,+but it could happen

Hence the urgent need to reduce the #cases and spread them out over time,
to avoid overloading NHS capacity

Fact: triage / the 3 Wise Men Protocol would apply if there were insufficient resources That was established practice before this crisis

However, children's critical care beds appear to be separate - slightly different equipment can anyone say ? -
so no child is likely to be pushed down the list for any adult
(theoretically could be for another child, but v few children have suffered critical illness from CV-19)

Treatment of none-CV emergencies like asthma, stroke etc or broken bones, scalds ...would continue

Elective surgeries e.g. hip & knee transplants would likely be postponed until after the crisis

OnTheEdgeOfTheNight · 10/03/2020 21:51

@usernameishistory the source has been linked to by others in the thread too - if anyone wants to check it's the Italian society of anaesthesiology who have unfortunately had to make the guidelines. Twitter also has reports of the happier news of China freeing up ICU equipment to be sent to Italy.

mobile.twitter.com/search?q=Italian%20society%20of%20anaesthesia&src=typed_query

BertiesLanding · 10/03/2020 21:51

*No, agreed.

But I do think we should*

Thank you, @usernameishistory, for a measure of much-needed humanity.

Sunshinesky1981 · 10/03/2020 21:54

Yes but unfortunately when Tunbridge posted that kids with asthma will be refused treatment and wont even get to see a doctor she didn't state that it was with regard to ICU beds for the most serious life threatening cases, she said that if we get as bad as Italy ( who are not at present making those choices) and that's led to confusion, . it could have been better worded. People will still get as much treatment that thw NHS are able to give. Doctors are not going to refuse to even asses or see sick kids, Yes they will have to make hard choices with regard to ICU beds. Of course those beds will be given to those with the best chance of survival, BUT that doesn't mean that the NHS is going to refuse to give any treatment or access to a doctor full stop

RedToothBrush · 10/03/2020 21:55

And I don't think it's patronising for someone to bleat on about how their mate has coronavirus and they are just fine so we should talk about the potential for systematic failure because that 'doomongering'.

Not when that's literally what people who are working at the sharp end if this are saying.

No I don't think it's patronising. I think it's downright offensive and minimising very real concerns.

It's not about me. Nor even my family. But concern that its social acceptable to turn a blind eye to potentially preventable deaths because of 'doommongers'.

Once upon a time these doomongers were called whistleblowers.

Whistleblowers tell inconvenient truths and say things that people don't want to here. And are usually thrown under the bus for it.

We should be better than this.

myrtleWilson · 10/03/2020 21:56

@OnTheEdgeOfTheNight
This was @YoursTunbridgeWells post from the previous thread

YoursTunbridgeWells Tue 10-Mar-20 15:45:05
news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-italian-doctor-says-fighting-covid-19-outbreak-is-like-war-11954229

This must not be underestimated. People have to understand that if we get anything close to Italy's state, there will be no treatment for those with co-morbidities - this includes asthma. This includes kids.

No nuance, no context, just scaremongering

Original poster

usernameishistory · 10/03/2020 21:56

....and the pressure on the NHS is the point of flattening the peak so that they can manage as many as humanly possible, against a backdrop of not knowing how many that will actually be.

OP posts:

MangePasTesOnglesVilain · 10/03/2020 21:56

WhereStuff

Your posting style reminds me of Trump, with fewer exclamation marks. I'm sorry but I didn't catch your meaning,

BigChocFrenzy · 10/03/2020 21:57

"it sucks to be you if you are 11th in line for a ten bedded unit."

OK, so in a shortage, it is not so likely to be choosing one patient over another based on asthma, BP etc

but more a case of unlucky #11, whether they are a healthy young person or a geriatric

picklemewalnuts · 10/03/2020 21:59

Bigchoc,

What if when one bed/ventilator becomes available, there are 20 poorly people needing it?

picklemewalnuts · 10/03/2020 22:00

I'd love to say, they'll choose the sickest. I fear they won't. They'll choose the one that is most likely to survive if treated.

CustardySergeant · 10/03/2020 22:00

A previously fit and healthy 60 year old woman has been placed into an induced coma www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8096503/Son-fears-fit-healthy-mother-60s-Britains-coronavirus-victim.html I've never worried about my health, but I'm also very pessimistic, so this is worrying me now.

MangePasTesOnglesVilain · 10/03/2020 22:02

It's really no different to the kind of decisions that are made in transplant medicine.

One liver is available and there are a lot of people who need one and will die without.

It's not nice, but these decisions are made.

NeurotrashWarrior · 10/03/2020 22:02

Username, in going off to clarify that, I'm afraid I found the opposite, though very recent research sorry! But it was the main view for 40 years apparently.

Though I do wonder about the level of training patient number 1 in Italy did. Unless it was an over active immune response (ARDS?).

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/04/180420122807.htm

Quartz2208 · 10/03/2020 22:03

yet she hadnt left the house for 2 weeks and had a doctors appt. I suspect there is probably some underlying condition as well that doesnt preclude her to be in normal circumstances fit and healthy

OnTheEdgeOfTheNight · 10/03/2020 22:03

This article in the Independent confirms discussions about using the Three Wise Men strategy of allocating resources when overwhelmed

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-uk-deaths-nhs-intensive-care-flu-wise-men-protocol-a9361916.html?__twitter_impression=true

ChipotleBlessing · 10/03/2020 22:04

I have no issue with acknowledging that the three wise men protocol is likely to be in use in the UK within the month and that the Italian equivalent is already in place in some areas. That is not what YourT said. She read that article and then put a particularly negative and unnecessarily distressing spin on it, stating for example that people with asthma would be refused any treatment (not specifying that she was even referring to for CV let alone for intensive intervention).
That is not what the three wise men protocol means at all.

Original poster

usernameishistory · 10/03/2020 22:04

Whistleblowers - its even a shame they have to be known as this.

Air traffic control protocol is this, all the time, every near miss, scrutinising how something has gone wrong, what needs doing differently (from what I've heard).

Some of whats been going on in public services is extremely unpalatable, and vulnerable in sociaty have been dying as a result.

On here, in this situation, its understandly unpalatable and potentially terrifying as people look at their family and wonder.

Myrtle thank you for that update of previous threads post. Is that hugely hypocritical? I might have mossed something.

OP posts:

Laniakea · 10/03/2020 22:05

They'll choose the one that is most likely to survive if treated.

^ of course they will & it would be an idiotic waste of resources not to. Rationing happens all the time in health care.

Flaxmeadow · 10/03/2020 22:06

I just can't get my head around the fact that some people with COVID-19 are asymptomatic or have mild symptoms and others are in intensive care and dying because of it.

I could be wrong but as far as I can make out, 'mild' symptoms does not mean just feeling a bit unwell. It means mild as in symptoms similar to flu, which of course are not mild, as anyone who has had flu will know.

I think its to make the distinction between someone with severe symptoms, in critical care for example, and someone who is feeling really unwell but managing and not in need of hospital treatment

In other words mild covid19 symptoms are not actually mild, as in the usual meaning of the word

BigChocFrenzy · 10/03/2020 22:08

pickle
Normally, there should be a gap, even 30 minutes, between patients arriving at a critical care ward, surely ?

From what pp with knowledge of this protocol said, a geriatric would not be taken off a machine to put on a new patient who is young & without comorbifities

Sounds like "first come, first served" ?

If we really see patients arriving simultaneously for ventilators and EMCOs, then the Three WIse Men protocol would have to choose between them

... and simultaneous arrivals would signify a frightening number of cases if that happens more than a few times in the country as a whole

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