worried about coronavirus (covid19) part 20

[usernameishistory]

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Helpful links

WHO media speech for world plan of action

updated data on this page every day at 2pm until further notice.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-number-of-cases-in-england/coronavirus-covid-19-number-of-cases-in-england

WHO advice for the public
www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public

Its not just like flu www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/01/yes-it-is-worse-than-the-flu-busting-the-coronavirus-myths

Why WHO not declaring a pandemic www.newscientist.com/article/2235342-covid-19-why-wont-the-who-officially-declare-a-coronavirus-pandemic/

Worldometer www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

BNO News bnonews.com/index.php/2020/02/the-latest-coronavirus-cases/

Link to WHO report www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019

The Lancet coronavirus hub - latest research and comment www.thelancet.com/coronavirus. Please provide updated link if possible, I haven't been able to make this one work.

JAMA coronavirus research centre jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/pages/coronavirus-alert

For research on CV and babies:
jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2761659

Please add in other links for any wanting to increase their understanding and decrease their anxiety!

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Round up of one-liners gathered from the wisdoms across the threads, with links...

Work is progressing on vaccine, take 1yr -18 mths for safe use.
First human trials of vaccine started
www.livescience.com/us-coronavirus-vaccine-trial-recruiting.html

Advice for anxiety
www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/Resources/Looking-After-Yourself/Anxiety

WHO advice to the public
www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public

Specialist asthma sufferers advice here:
www.asthma.org.uk/about/media/news/Coronavirus/

In the coming days, guidance for healthcare professionals on Coronavirus (COVID-19) infection in pregnancy will be published by the RCOG, Royal College of Midwives, Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, Public Health England and Health Protection Scotland
....
www.rcog.org.uk/coronavirus-pregnancy

A plea,

• to remember to help food banks stay stocked up
• to give older, or maybe lone, neighbours your phone number with offers to help with shopping and medicine collections

Life expectancy of virus on surfaces
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195670120300463#

sodium hypochlorite drum to kill virus

The stance on profiteering from CV
www.gov.uk/government/news/cma-statement-on-sales-and-pricing-practices-during-coronavirus-outbreak

A survivors story - only ONE story remember!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-51714162/how-i-recovered-from-coronavirus-and-isolation

Irreversible lung damage? Aids/sars effects
amp.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/chinese-doctors-say-coronavirus-like-a-combination-of-sars-and-aids-can-cause-irreversible-lung-damage/news-story/f58f19c5eeae99b845c54e2d2b9305ca?__twitter_impression=true

The efficacy, or otherwise of sanitisers
www.bics.org.uk/coronavirus-dr-andrew-kemp-jp-phd-reports/

Sign the petition for action against CV19
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/300403

Travelling, making other decisions around
exposure
read up, noone can decide for you, but be aware...
Your mode of transport (train/boat/plane) is unlikely to be disinfected.
You may not be welcome back at work (forced isolation unpaid because you decided to take risk)
Getting stuck in quarantine in another country, subjected to their health service and govt restrictions on you.
What happens with your dc and school upon return.
Holiday insurance cover?

Positive ways of coping

Exercise daily, out where you won't be in close proximity (greater than 2 metres)

Eat well, healthy foods, plenty of liquid

Include natural antivirals in diet and good levels of daily vit c

Rest

Take steps to address any raised anxiety, above what might be reasonable and normal steps for keeping viral hygiene under control.
Its normal to feel more anxious, and normal to take steps to manage situation by being well prepared.

Isolation Issues

Getting sufficient shopping in on low incomes, and/or vulnerable / already isolated

Keeping on top of KEY METERS - need to top up yet in isolation - what measures are there to help

Paying mortgage/rent (private & housing associations) if not receiving sick pay

Legislation that enforced isolation = sick (for sick pay purposes)

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Primary mode of transmission is airborne droplets.

Sneeze or cough into elbow (or tissue and bin it). Droplets can travel 2m.

Secondary means of transmission touch.

Hand wash to
Break the transmission cycle from hand to mouth, eyes, nose, or to others, by 20 seconds plus thorough hand washing (soap and water).

Alcohol breaks down the outer layer of virus to effectively kill, other methods may not.
(Anti bacterial does NOT do this and overuse may risk bacterial resistance).

Use 2/3rds vol alcohol to any other additive

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Huge thanks to all contributors; for updates and trying to keep to trusted sources of information.

The community here has been supportive and respectful despite worries, and that can make a huge difference in unknown times.

thoughts go to all those affected, in whatever way.

DH’s company has told told all UK staff to work from home, no exceptions. They’re really well set up for it thankfully. I work in a secondary school in one county, dcs go to school in another. Our official line at work is that we’re following government advice, but the school are also letting parents know that online schooling and resources will be available if there comes a time when we do have to shut down. We’ve heard nothing from dcs school yet - has anyone else heard anything from primary schools re providing work if they’re closed?

Fact - ICU treatment is always rationed. Every decision to admit a patient is made on the basis of what their need is, what their prognosis is and whether there is capacity for them or somebody else needs to more. Coronavirus makes those rationing decisions more obvious and greater in number but chances are many 90 yr olds with an infection won't be ventilated whether in midst of crisis or not.

Fact - an ethical framework exists to make decisions. The NHS acknowledged the need for hard choices a long time ago.

Fact - we don't know how this is spreading in the community because testing is still limited. I expect the numbers to rise steeply by the end of the week. If they don't I will feel more hopeful.

Fact - we don't have enough icu capacity or staff or ventilators for this if it goes bad. Don't criticise people for staying at home. It's a smart choice right now.

Nellodee

I agree with your post about the government making their modelling available and how the sharing of it would affect the modelling, and not in a good way.

*@NeurotrashWarrior^

From something somewhere (possibly inside health on radio 4) I head that heavy exercise of more than an hour does lower your immunity levels or reduce ability to fight off infections. Possibly more so if it's less usual for you to do so.

I really appreciated that, as I keep wonderitwhether the over-exercise and strict dieting regimes of top athletes (et al) can be detrimental in this fight.

I think it's a very worrying phenomenon for people to hear thats the apparently 'super fit and healthy' are succumbing.

Anyway for those of you who want the fluffy good news stories to make you feel warm and fuzzy here's a good one for you.

www.standard.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-chinese-man-aged-100-recovers-disease-a4383741.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1583865346
100-year-old Chinese man ‘oldest person to recover from coronavirus’

The man was admitted to a hospital in Wuhan, the Chinese city where the outbreak began, on February 24, according to Xinhua news agency

And

The man, who has not been named, is said to have suffered from multiple pre-existing conditions, including heart failure, hypertension and Alzheimer’s disease.

There you go. Now everyone worried can just shut up because this guy was OK.

I don't recall @YoursTunbridgeWells saying that children with asthma would be refused treatment. I think that Tunbridge just shared the reports on twitter (e.g. the official guidelines and stories being shared by medical staff) saying that Italian medics were overwhelmed and did not have capacity to treat the many people who require intensive therapy, that they were having to triage patients and decide who to attempt to save. This is in comparison with China where additional hospitals were built and beds were made available quickly. The good news is that China and Italy are in discussions about exporting ICU equipment from China to Italy. The point being that the UK needs to plan too.

mobile.twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1236508490488741889

No she did say they would be refused treatment. And also said that doctors would refuse to see them

Red- I've really appreciated your input over the 20 threads - but this latest one was patronising and unhelpful. Caricaturing some posters as wanting to be "warm and fuzzy" is beneath the posts I've read from you previously.

@magic where from? I really want some hand gel!!

I have a mum with aCopd, a mad with prostate cancer and a elderly grandad of 92. Seriously stressing out

This is what @YoursTunbridgeWells referring to. We may not like it, but it's happening, and it's a warning.

@Kateplaysrugbyinmydreams

Can I just ask your position of authority in knowing numbers all over the country of ventilators and planned expansion to nhs beds and facilities for cv?

I assume when you say its fact thats becausenits your job to manage that or have access to that information, and direct involvement in it.

Not asking you to out yourself, but that this is in fact your position that allows this privileged inside track.

BigChoc, he posted something on his Facebook page that was picked up by the press. I've read the original Italian copy job of his actual FB post. It's long, but essentially he too wasn't afraid a couple of weeks ago, now he's seen how beds are filling up and he's worried and warns others to get ready. Nowhere does he say he personally is an ICU doctor or has first hand experience of Covid 19. Because he isn't and hasn't. He's a proctologist in private practice and also works at the private teaching hospital.

@loopylindaz
I made some using rubbing gel and aloe Vera gel if that's any help. There was some online on poundshop yesterday eve limited to one a customer

www.poundshop.com/

@RedToothBrush

Do you have or are in close contact with someone who has tested positive?

This is the kind of thing that caused Tunbridge to say what she did. It's a screen shot from the link I posted earlier, asking whether it had been discredited.
It doesn't seem to have been.

Thanks OnTheEdgeOfTheNight

Do you know where that's from? I mean, is it an article? It talks of Italian resources.

I spotted a nice supply of pocket hand sanitizers in the gift section of a local garden centre today, so it's always worth checking.

I also noticed that additional gel dispensers had been placed at the entrance and in the cafe, so that customers could access and servers could disinfect between serving each table.

When I stopped at ALDI, I noticed customers using their own bags instead of trollies and baskets, and covering their hands when touching checkout dividers. It's not all doom and gloom. Some people really are doing their best to avoid spreading germs.

I'm pissed off at people whining that they are finding people talking on this thread about the three wise men protocol as distressing and anxiety producing.

Well of course it is, but it doesn't stop it being the reality of the situation.

Burying our heads in the sand won't help.

Victoria Derbyshire @victoriaLive
“We’re not going to suddenly find 10,000 extra intensive care nurses”

Dr Ron Daniels, consultant in intensive care, says the UK cannot increase its ICU capacity "rapidly enough" to deal with levels of coronavirus patients

t.co/wlki6PwgJr

If you are finding it distressing, instead of complaining and saying that posts should be censored for being brutally honest, perhaps you should bombard your local MP with letter, emails and phone calls about how under equipped and lacking in capacity tomorrow. Go and do something proactive instead of going on about how feelings are not being considered.

Coronavirus doesn't give a fuck about your feelings. It doesn't care about politics.

@Sunshinesky1981 perhaps you could show us where Tunbridge said that children with asthma would not be treated?

Here's her post from page 1: no mention of children with asthma, and it agrees with what is being reported.
Nobody knows how bad it will get here. May be we'll be lucky and won't end up with the three wise men principal. But if it does get bad, some people simply won't be treated. Those least likely to survive are older and also those with comorbidities.

The screenshot has clearly been translated badly from Italian. I'd like to see the original.

Ha, too right I'm not outing myself. I don't need to either. The facts that our icu capacity is one of the poorest in Europe for bed numbers and usually runs at 85-90% of occupancy in 'peacetime' tells anybody just how much trouble we are likely to be in. Don't get me started on ECMO availability.....

I agree with you @RedToothBrush
So much apathy and heads placed firmly in the sand. It’s not scaremongering to highlight what is happening in other countries (who are taking more proactive measures than we are) and think that could/probably willhappen over here. We all know what a strain the NHS is under and we can’t just magic ICU beds out of nowhere.

We are in new territory here.

Re: critical care beds, pps are correct that children have their own critical care units, however these are generally at large acute trusts (and speciality children's hospitals). However, in my hospital we have local guidance that we can accommodate children age 12+ on our unit in a major incident/pandemic.

I would also echo the posters who are trying to make sense of the medical ethics. Yes, technically there could be some really difficult choices to make regarding access to specialist beds/ equipment however this is way down the line and not a case of ruling out any whole group of patients, be it over 65s or kids with asthma. Decisions of how to prioritise resources will be made on a case by case basis, and in the context of an ever changing environment. A counter argument to the 'survival of the fittest' point would be that actually the person who gets in first may well be prioritised so it sucks to be you if you are 11th in line for a ten bedded unit. Any difficult decisions that clinicians need to be made will be entirely justifiable in the circumstances and will be written into local or specialty guidance for this express purpose.

If you think about it, that's the way we run our beds now in winter. If the beds are full we don't kick out the 'least deserving/most critically unwell' to accommodate the ambulance that is on its way. And sometimes that means patients wait too long in A&E or in a corridor, or in an ambulance. Sometimes that even means patients die because the ambulances are blocked at the hospitals and can't reach the person having an MI in the community. However, there's no benefit to anyone of thinking all these scenarios through and trying to figure which set of circumstances would be best/worst for themselves and their families. The problem at the heart of all of this is that the NHS is not as well resourced as we would like going into a pandemic. But we'll do our best. In the meantime, please wash your hands!