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worried about coronavirus (covid19) part 17

999 replies

usernameishistory · 08/03/2020 17:22

Next thread.

previous thread here

Helpful links

WHO media speech for world plan of action

updated data on this page every day at 2pm until further notice.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-number-of-cases-in-england/coronavirus-covid-19-number-of-cases-in-england

WHO advice for the public
www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public

Its not just like flu www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/01/yes-it-is-worse-than-the-flu-busting-the-coronavirus-myths

Why WHO not declaring a pandemic www.newscientist.com/article/2235342-covid-19-why-wont-the-who-officially-declare-a-coronavirus-pandemic/

Worldometer www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

BNO News bnonews.com/index.php/2020/02/the-latest-coronavirus-cases/

Link to WHO report www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019

The Lancet coronavirus hub - latest research and comment www.thelancet.com/coronavirus. Please provide updated link if possible, I haven't been able to make this one work.

JAMA coronavirus research centre jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/pages/coronavirus-alert

Please add in other links for any wanting to increase their understanding and decrease their anxiety!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
confusedandtired99 · 09/03/2020 00:03
Grin
DressingGownofDoom · 09/03/2020 00:06

Goodness, this thread has been running for months without a sniff of concern and suddenly today it might be zapped.

Anyway, another 5 cases in NI today - that's a huge leap for such a small country. I'm worried about the effect CV is going to have on the island of Ireland.

eeeyoresmiles · 09/03/2020 00:06

For people who are worried that other people are being made too anxious, this article by an expert in risk communication might be of interest:

“Fear Is Spreading Faster than SARS” – And So It Should!

From the article (which was written in 2003 when SARS was a growing risk):

The first half of our title was the headline of a recent New York Times article on SARS. The second half is a risk communication lesson that most health officials and many journalists have been slow to learn. It isn’t only about SARS. Regardless of the hazard, fear is a tool, not just a problem. The purpose of fear is to motivate precautions – that is, self-protective behaviors that diminish the risk of bad outcomes. To be useful, then, the fear has to outrun the thing that is feared; fear that lags behind its object is useless. Yet somehow the public is being told that it is wrong, irrational, panicky, or hysterical to be fearful of SARS just yet.

Public anxiety can lead to genuine panic or to astonishing resilience. The paradox is that efforts to squelch the anxiety (“allay the public’s fear” is the usual phrase) can actually induce the panic it aims to prevent. Resilience is likelier when authorities ally with the anxiety, harness it, and steer it instead of trying to prevent it. Of course even superb handling of the public’s fears may not prevent panic if the epidemic gets bad enough. There has often been some panic during the great epidemics of the past. But panic will be likelier and more widespread if the authorities have been minimizing the risk than if they have been acknowledging it candidly and compassionately.

This is partly about false positives and false negatives – what the medical profession calls “the worried well” and what we might appropriately call the complacent sick. One of the lessons the SARS epidemic has taught us, or retaught us, is that a few sick people who are insufficiently concerned (or insufficiently screened) can wreak havoc. It is true that anxious people sometimes imagine they have SARS when they don’t, much as medical students traditionally imagine themselves into whatever disease they are currently studying. And it is true that this is an irritation, a distraction, and an expense for the health care system, at a time when the system is already overburdened. But even thinking purely in medical terms, are false positives really too high a price to pay to reduce the number of false negatives – that is, to achieve a vigilant patient population less likely to shrug off a symptom or a voluntary quarantine?

The article is a long but interesting read. The basic argument is that a certain amount of fear is appropriate, and attempts to reassure people that there's nothing to worry about until it's certain things will get bad, are positively unhelpful. They prevent people from getting gradually ready to take the necessary precautions, and they cause more panic in the long run.

These threads have been so useful, and will stop being so very quickly if they are also being treated as comforting public service announcements rather than frank discussions which include a lot of thinking aloud, some speculation, theorising and so on. They contain an awful lot of useful links, careful explanations, useful information from people with valuable experience, too. No one is taking every line as some kind of gospel truth as to what's going to happen next.

usernameishistory · 09/03/2020 00:06

I second that @todayisnottuesday

The amounts and sheer volume of anti bacterial stuff being employed is a huge worry, alcohol notsomuch as its necessary for some situations.

I also truly hope all that everyone is saying is wrong too. We could pretend it was all a horrible dream.

Some on here have been carefully tracking data across the countries and noticing trends and trajectories, do you know that this particular projection is wrong (based on existing trend)? Please say if so.

Nobody wants alarmist unfounded projections, it would worry me too.

OP posts:
eeeyoresmiles · 09/03/2020 00:10

I've been wondering about all the sprayed disinfectant in China and other places - it must be dire for wildlife and water it runs off into. I'm not saying they shouldn't be doing it (no idea about the costs v benefits of that particular method) but we should probably be hoping it doesn't have to be done for too long.

ofwarren · 09/03/2020 00:10

Albania reports first 2 cases of coronavirus t.co/eUoE2b20hL

BigChocFrenzy · 09/03/2020 00:14

Dare I ask: what is "scoobey making?"

ofwarren · 09/03/2020 00:14

Brilliant post @eeyoresmiles
Thank you for sharing that.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/03/2020 00:16

I couldn't cope with a big scarf and I have to wear my thick glasses

However, confused's idea of a fidget toy sounds good, than you
I'll look at Amazon's selection - btw, they must be doing well, with people not going out to shop so much

RedToothBrush · 09/03/2020 00:17

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-nhs-hospitals-masks-nurses-doctors-a9385131.html?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1583711950
Coronavirus: Doctors warn UK hospitals running out of protective equipment for staff
Exclusive: Department of Health and Social care says it will release UK’s pandemic stockpile to ensure supplies

UK hospitals are beginning to run out of vital equipment needed to protect nurses and doctors from catching coronavirus from infected patients, medics have warned.

NHS staff have said they are unable to get hold of some face masks and other specialist personal protective equipment (PPE) which is needed to prevent them falling ill. Some hospitals are weeks away from running out of equipment, multiple sources have said.

And

Doctors have been told to limit their use of face masks during procedures and surgeries to try and maintain supplies while NHS England said it would be shipping PPE to GPs this week amid concerns they lack enough equipment.

One NHS manager told The Independent they were aware of three NHS trusts which did not have enough equipment and were now rationing what they had to try and make the supplies last until they can get more deliveries.

They said: “PPE is about to become a major issue. We’ve got a problem and NHS Supply Chain are invisible on the issue and the national command team are keeping silent. We will be out of PPE in two weeks with no supplies on the horizon.

“This is going to be the game changer and nobody wants to address the problem. Our masks are made in China and they aren’t about to let any stock leave the country. Of our key PPE lines three are now unavailable for the rest of March and who knows when from there.

“As usual we are all being gagged. This is serious and I know what this means and what the risks are.”

And

Among the products being restricted by NHS Supply Chain include hand gels and alcohol hand rubs, face visors and safety goggles, as well as surgical masks and respirators.

In February as the outbreak spread worldwide the Department of Health and Social Care asked suppliers to maintain their Brexit no-deal stockpiles in anticipation of shortages from China

I was asking about this yesterday and where our supply of masks came from in view of the EU arguing about this and Germany refusing to export to other member states never mind the UK.

HeIenaDove · 09/03/2020 00:18

Does anyone know why this happens sometimes? My infection back in Feb 2008 I became ill overnight with severe stomach pains Diarrheoa like lava, and collapsed and lost conciousness in the kitchen. Worst Valentines Day ever.

I dont remember the ambulance ride.

I was taken to hospital told it was a kidney infection and put on a drip. Given a private room. The registrar came down to see me. He asked me whether i had been abroad recently. I told him not since 1986. DH did not develop any symptoms or seem to catch this

Christmas 2012 we caught an awful cold and infection off my dad but my symptoms were way worse than DHs + i had diarrheoa with it. He didnt DH is the immuno compromised one.

ofwarren · 09/03/2020 00:19

t.co/0fnY1oeqPI

"The man in his 20s tested positive for the coronavirus on Saturday and is unconscious with a fever, pneumonia and meningitis, the prefectural government said. This marks the first case in Japan where the new coronavirus has caused meningitis"

alloutoffucks · 09/03/2020 00:20

@eeeyoresmiles That is interesting thanks. I find when I think the threat is been taken seriously that I feel much calmer. When it was being dismissed by officials as similar to flu, then I was anxious. Because I can see that the impact is not the same as seasonal flu. I am not stupid. So the thought that it wasn't been taken seriously by our Government was very scary.
I still don't think enough is happening, but there are signs of a bit more of a plan now.

Also wanted to answer the person who earlier on the thread talked about very elderly people ringing 111 in a panic. If he was still alive my dad would have done this. But he would not have got information from MN or the internet, but from tabloids. The information given out that most people get this mildly and it is only elderly or those with existing health problems who need to be concerned may reassure younger healthy people, but it seems designed to increase worries in elderly people. The statistic of mortality rate in over 80s who get it has been widely shared and is bound to terrify older people. So I am not surprised they are ringing 111 scared.

eeeyoresmiles · 09/03/2020 00:20

Remember when all this was fields, apart from this thread and the Prepping for Pandemic one? I wish it was still like that & the virus had faded away into nothing.

ofwarren · 09/03/2020 00:20

@redtoothbrush
Its terrifying that they are already having shortages when this thing hasn't even ramped up yet.

HeIenaDove · 09/03/2020 00:21

Would one of those squeezy stress balls help?

BigChocFrenzy · 09/03/2020 00:21

Great link from eeyore

"The paradox is that efforts to squelch the anxiety (“allay the public’s fear” is the usual phrase) can actually induce the panic it aims to prevent."

Exactly

tryingtoprep · 09/03/2020 00:22

What have I missed? I was just checking in before bed. The threads might go? I really hope not. It would be a terrible shame. There's been some fantastic, useful, and interesting advice and information - and, as others have said, chatting with others about it has been immensely helpful.

Flaxmeadow · 09/03/2020 00:23

Something I'm finding confusing, and I've seen others mention this, is the information being given out via various local authority 'district's'

The splitting up of Eng, Scot, Wales, NI for a start and then further confusion

Someone said earlier that the list is split into 'unitary authorities", but most people do not live in an unitary authority.

When you look at the gov. UK site list it means trawling through pages of either cities, towns, met counties, other counties etc etc etc. Its hard to understand what you're looking for.

Couldn't the powers that be have thought of a better way than this. Parliamentary constituencies or something?

From wiki on the different types of districts
"There are a total of 317 districts made up of 36 metropolitan boroughs, 32 London boroughs, 192 non-metropolitan districts, and 55 unitary authorities, as well as the City of London and the Isles of Scilly which are also districts, but do not correspond to any of these categories. Some districts are styled as boroughs, cities, or royal boroughs; these are purely honorific titles, and do not alter the status of the district. All boroughs and cities, and a few districts, are led by a mayor who in most cases is a ceremonial figure elected by the district council, but—after local government reform—is occasionally a directly elected mayor who makes most of the policy decisions instead of the council."

HmmConfused

confusedandtired99 · 09/03/2020 00:23

@eeeyoresmiles thank you that perfectly describes how I feel

BigChocFrenzy · 09/03/2020 00:23

I was just thinking of a squeezy toy, helena

confusedandtired99 · 09/03/2020 00:24

With your article but yes I was also thinking that the amount of threads has exploded today

BigChocFrenzy · 09/03/2020 00:28

I agree with fucks that it is the tabloids and even the TV news that are most likely scaring the elderly

In particular callous comments about the danger to the elderly, e.g. "getting rid of bed-blockers" or "just old people dying of flu"
and the younger people saying they won't change their hygiene because it won't hurt them

alloutoffucks · 09/03/2020 00:33

I don't see how people in authority can't see that the phrase only elderly people and those with existing health problems - won't scare some of those people silly. It is not reassuring at all to those groups.

Also the buying more groceries than usual has I think been mainly people stocking up in case they get ill or have to self isolate. That is being criticised. But people have for years being encouraged by those in authority to take personal responsibility, not look to the state and not think of wider society. So people have done that. They have thought of their family and what they need to do.

ofwarren · 09/03/2020 00:36

Hubei Province reported 36 new cases of novel coronavirus pneumonia on Mar 8, with 21 new deaths and 1,422 cases of recovery. The total number of infections in the province climbed to 67,743 with 46,433 recovered and 3,007 dead. t.co/AEdqbMdZbi