Worried about coronavirus part 11

[GPwife2411]

Previous thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/3837712-Worried-about-coronavirus-part-10?pg=10

updated data on this page every day at 2pm until further notice.
www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public#number-of-cases

It's not just like flu www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/01/yes-it-is-worse-than-the-flu-busting-the-coronavirus-myths

Why WHO not declaring a pandemic www.newscientist.com/article/2235342-covid-19-why-wont-the-who-officially-declare-a-coronavirus-pandemic/

Worldometer www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

BNO News bnonews.com/index.php/2020/02/the-latest-coronavirus-cases/

Link to WHO report www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019

The Lancet coronavirus hub - latest research and comment www.thelancet.com/coronavirus

JAMA coronavirus research centre jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/pages/coronavirus-alert

Really good moves from the government to be testing all ICU patients with breathing problems.

@Springinsight Not always e.g. CV is a virus and we have no treatment vs we do have treatment for things like bacterial pneumonia. But most viruses we see regularly are mild and self-limiting, hence the more relaxed approach (according to DH).

Wow, I've missed about 350 posts since I last looked! Thanks for the new thread.

Just copying this here ,from WHO today

First, COVID-19 does not transmit as efficiently as influenza, from the data we have so far.

With influenza, people who are infected but not yet sick are major drivers of transmission, which does not appear to be the case for COVID-19.

Evidence from China is that only 1% of reported cases do not have symptoms, and most of those cases develop symptoms within 2 days

Perhaps someone with a more analytical mind can look at this .To me it seems to say .that the data ie in China's reported cases only 1% were without symptoms .Therefore it's not like flu where a higher percentage of people pass on the illness before they are aware that they are ill .

But is that all they are basing the " COVID-19 does not transmit as efficiently as influenza" on ? Are there are other considerations /data not mentioned ?

Could there have been a large number of unreported cases in China of which a high percentage had Covid 19 but didn't realise it ?

And another here who agrees with RTB's posts . I don't think there is much evidence to support the idea that much containment is going on .

Hand sanitiser - I've mixed up some surgical spirit with aloe vera .It is very watery .Takes a while before it dries .

Chap on radio said hand gel better than nothing but can still leave virus on hands ,hot water washing better as washes it down drain .

And as others have said if hands are cracked/have small open fissures from hand sanitiser - surely that will provide a handy route for virus entry ??

Thanks docs wife.

I agree with elements of reds posts, just other elements I find myself charmed by like a dizzy snake in thrall of a snake charmer, then I wake up and separate it all out.
I very much appreciate reds links and the tracts of data etc posted.
I just take issue with many of the slants placed in that context of the info.

As others said, medics will be pretty much in charge right now, how else could they not be.
People are already clamouring about loss of human rights under the rather timid initial responses as is.

With the testing that's been going on or rather lack of testing when people have passed though Northern Italy and Milan Airport... I don't think its contained here in the slightest.

Wondering about increasing class sizes. My DC has SEN and is in a very small class and would not cope in a large classroom. He has an EHCP and additional strain on teachers would mean this is not met. Would this be grounds to keep him home?

Hakuna - if he has an EHCP you will have to ask the LA to agree for you to home educate. They will need to see how You can provide what is set out in Section F, and how you are going to work towards meeting the outcomes in the plan, also bear in mind that once things quieten down with the virus, then there would be no guarantee that you will get the school place back again, especially if it's a special needs school as often the places are in demand.

@HakunaMatataa You'd have to agree the situation with the school, but I suspect in this sort of situation, they would agree to him being kept home for a while.

Realistically, if coronavirus becomes very widespread, it's unlikely schools will do much chasing up of absentees!

@peridito my hands already have deep open cracks just from the handwashing. And I'm not even doing it excessively, just a bit longer than normal and an extra wash on arrival home.
I haven't used any hand gel yet as none in stock any where.

Hakuna Yes, I think so. In fact, the school would probably be very relieved that the decision came from you if they reached a point where they couldn't meet the provision stated in an EHCP.

We only have 2 children currently with full time 1:1s but, when one of those adults is off, it can be really hard. We aren't allowed to not provide a 1:1 and certainly aren't allowed to tell the parents the child cannot attend school. We've had all sorts of makeshift 1:1 ing, from a kitchen assistant to the head teacher!

EHCPs and 1:1s are something that would come under a lot of strain if the virus becomes significant.

d plans to deal with home visit carers particularly with regard to potential illness and staff shortages. I've not heard anything on this score yet and this is where robust planning and prep should be going

Agreed I mentioned this last night on the "would you self isolate" thread

Channel 4 news raised the question tonight about cleaners in NHS hospitals self isolation and lack of rights to sick pay.

For people making/planning to make their own sanitiser - just seen this article from the Guardian calling it a 'big no no'

Sally Bloomfield, a professor at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, says that viruses are much more resistant to disinfectants than bacteria. Luckily, she says, coronavirus is an envelope virus, meaning it has a coating around it which the alcohol can attack, thereby eliminating the threat. (Norovirus and rhinovirus, by contrast, do not)

This means that making your own sanitiser, while potentially effective against some bacteria, is not something Bloomfield would recommend. “It’s very unwise, dangerous, even,” she says. Shop-bought products also contain emollients to make them softer on the skin, without which you run the risk of hurting your hands. Getting the mix right at home would very tricky – so it is a big no-no

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/28/hand-sanitiser-or-hand-washing-which-more-effective-against-coronavirus-covid-19

Thanks all for the answers. I couldn't fully provide what is set out in the provisions but i feel in the worst case scenario they couldn't either and he would feel happier at home. It is a mainstream school with a unit. Hopefully we dont reach that point but if we do I would speak to the school

I’m not a parent but I expect there will be thousands across the country freaking out about how this is going to impact their child’s development and education. Hopefully in the coming days more specific guidelines will be published to help manage the worry and many questions people will have especially those with SEN.

My advice is to try to not project your fear and panic onto the kids. Things could become very disrupted in the coming weeks/ months so it’s best to just try and act as normal as possible. Hand washing should really be ingrained to the same extent as waiting for the green man, both will save your life.

NEW: Liechtenstein, one of the world's smallest countries, reports first case of coronavirus t.co/eUoE2bjB9j

I can only imagine thousands of people will
Take their kids out of school and deal with the consequences. I certainly won’t be sending DS to school if they are increasing class sizes due to teachers being off infected with CV. it will just amplify the risk of getting infected as it’s the opposite of social distancing,

Senegal confirms second case of coronavirus t.co/AkdOyb6baH t.co/Uif5nyCUIZ

Oh my goodness I am stepping away from trying to inform people on the general threads. I just had this:

We don’t need people like you creating drama and shrieking like some Biblical prophetess of doom. Just dial the hysteria back for your own sake, if nobody else’s

Some people just want to bury their heads in the sand.

Hasa I think my analogy of heads in an hour glass works quite well ⏳ eventually they will realise the error in their ways once the sand has run out.

Wondering about increasing class sizes. My DC has SEN and is in a very small class and would not cope in a large classroom. He has an EHCP and additional strain on teachers would mean this is not met. Would this be grounds to keep him home?

Of course you could absolutely keep your DC at home because of this. My DD also has SEN and an EHCP. I'll be keeping her at home if class sizes increase. Their needs will not be met if class sizes increase etc.

Having said that I'd take my other DD out too who has no SEN or EHCP. Don't care about fines. I don't believe they'll fine anyone. This is a crisis situation and we need to look after each other. I'm actually gobsmacked that people are feeling afraid to take their kids out - what are people afraid of? Is it just the possible fine? Or something else?

I think GPs present a more relaxed attitude towards viruses because there isn't anything they can do, unless they turn into a chest infection that cave treated with antibiotics. They're certainly not all mild or self limiting, even without considering Covid-19. For example flu is a virus and that can be fatal, glandular fever is another, and viral meningitis.

In fact, the real problem with Covid-19 is that it's a virus and hence can't be treated with antibiotics. Death occurs when it becomes a form of viral pneumonia.

So no, doctors are not relaxed about viruses (although there are obviously minor ones); they just can't treat them.

My dd is quite behind and I'm not the slightest bit worried about having her out of school. Both dc seem to come on much better doing ten /twenty mins Weeks a day with me in summer hols when young than they do at full time school.

It's my capacity re my own job to let me to that, the issue.