Is the green party starting to regret it's association with Islamists?

[mids2019]

The green party, ostensibly about climate protection and general progressive values seems to have gotten into bed with Islamist sympathisers and the amount of anti semitism and basic hatred of their own country is now obvious.

The green party now at least locally are known as a party that has sympathies towards all manner of Islamist causes including Hamas's objective to wipe Israel of the face of the Earth.

Wouldn't be surprised if they produce a motion declaring climate change a Jewish conspiracy........

@Notsooldcrock @localnotail, look deeper into history.

How deep do you want me to go?
Back to Moses crossing the Red Sea or deeper than that?

Historically, "Palestine" as a nation did not exist and Jews lived in the region continuously since day one.

But its not just about history. Israel exists, and you can't undo that - unless you want to kill off or displace all of its inhabitants. Talking about history - I'm sure I've heard of someone trying to do this to the Jewish nation before.

I think this the crux. A lot of people who ostensibly want peace in Gaza actually have an agenda of getting rid of Israel and by extension the Jews in it. Even the Labour party is now distancing itself from the now odious greens and maybe the public are getting a clearer picture of the pro Palestine movement and those that back it.

Please remember Hamas aren't exactly advocating a peaceful 2 state solution. I would say a majority of Paelstinians don't want Israel to exist.

Exactly. Anyone who pretends all the Pro-Palestinian marches shouting "from the river to the sea" are about something peaceful are delusional idiots.

To me, anyone who wears "free Palestine" badge or any other Pali symbolism is automatically someone who probably want Israel wiped off the face of the earth. Not a peaceful person concerned with the ongoing war.

"Jews lived in the region continuously since day one." Are you sure about that. Surely the majority of posters on here would refute that.

‘The majority of posters on here’, seriously? Are they experts on the Middle East now?
Since when does a UK parenting forum outrank thousands of years of documented history?

Why does everything have to binary absolutes? If you were to say to a Palestinian now if you push this button every Israeli would vanish, of course every single one would push it. If you asked the same question of Israelis about Palestinians, they would too. That is just human nature but doesn't reflect real life. People generally just want a peaceful and secure life to raise their families with dignity and that goes for the vast majority of Palestinians. The problem is, Israelis don't need to compromise yet. They still enjoy almost total unconditional support from Western governments and can lie on a beach in Tel Aviv sipping cocktails while Palestinians are scrabbling in the dirt for any dropped grains of rice. Allowing the Palestinians the dignity, self determination and freedom all people deserve does not mean the destruction of the Jewish population. It just requires compromise on both sides. As long as Israel perpetuates and normalises their treatment of Palestinians, the world is going to see them as immoral, cruel and entitled. No matter how much Israel spends on media campaigns to reverse that view, it is not going to work and that sentiment is going to grow every day. I, and many others, including in Israel, believe that damage to Israels reputation is now irreversible.

So to be sure you are claiming Jews have lived in the land continuously.

Are you being deliberately dense?
Do you know what the original, Arabic words to that chant are?

I do wonder what some of the mild-mannered, middle-aged, middle-class types actually think when they post ‘Free Palestine’ or even ‘From the river to the sea’.
Or that young friendly looking guy I saw at a local indie club the other day who was wearing a t-shirt with the map of Israel covered by a slice of watermelon.

Well yes, based on what I’ve read.
What point are you trying to make?
That other posters on here might disagree? That’s irrelevant.

Well that is wonderful news as it proves that Jews and Muslims can live in peace while sharing the land. I guess that revelation alone now means that if Israel is truly a moral and democratic country, then there is no excuse for keeping the Palestinians in a perpetual state of wretchedness.

You mean the one adapted from the 1977 Likud party charter and first used the first Intifada. One said the the land would be Arab and the other said the land would be Muslim. You know they are not used anymore. It is now Palestine will be free. A chant that is regularly heard, not just in Israel but at international football matches, etc, is Mavet la-Aravim. I wish I knew what it meant.

You’re contradicting yourself here.
You can’t argue that people 'just want a peaceful life' right after claiming every single one of them would push a button to make an entire nation vanish. That makes it pretty clear that a peaceful life is not all they want.

As for Israelis wanting exactly the same - two million Palestinians live, work, and hold citizenship inside Israel. The same cannot be said vice versa.

It doesn’t prove anything.

Then ignore that part. All I was trying to show is that people will say one thing but that is not real life and would happily accept a realistic solution. If you're going to dwell on it, I saw an Israeli interview where that exact question was asked about Gaza and everyone said they would push the button.

Of course it does. If they lived peacefully for hundreds of years then it is possible. The Old Yishuv were an integral part of society alongside the Muslims and Christians, cooperating and thriving.

As far as I can see, it's only you on this thread claiming that in "real life" people would "happily accept" a realistic solution - which you consider a one state solution to be.

I don't accept that it's a realistic solution or that people would "happily accept" it in real life after all the conflict we have seen in the Middle East in recent decades.

We’ve had this “thriving” discussion before. They “thrived” by paying additional tax, not being able to access jobs and work and when push came to shove and the Arabs lost a war they had their asserts seized and they were persecuted and expelled.
Peaceful, as in keeping your mouth shut and playing the game is not thriving. You could equally argue that if the Palestinians just shut up and got on with it they would be ‘thriving’.
Even when your points have been dismantled you keep churning them out with no level of engagement.

Okay, then I'm going to ask this question of you and any one else who might want to answer it. A two state solution is unacceptable as can be seen from what the realistically viable party leaders said to the binary question during the recent JNS debate of whether their party would accept a two state solution and they all answered no. If the idea of a single state solution is a total anathema, what do you think the answer is to the situation with the Palestinians, both in the West Bank and Gaza. All I ever hear is reject this and reject that. As vile as Ben Gvir is, at least he honestly makes his intentions known.

You keep going on about the Jizya as if it was a persecution against Jews. Do you know anything about it and what it is for. Regardless of the fact that it was abolished long before Herzl came up with his Zionist dream.

I’ve made clear in previous posts it was payable by non Muslims. You ask if I know about it, I may well ask if you have read my posts?

Again, total distraction from the points being made. You won’t respond to parallel arguments. You thrash around telling people to read history, accusing people of not understanding. You select your historical truths and ignore everything you don’t agree with. You treat everyone who doesn’t agree with you as ignorant when it is evident there are many knowledgeable posters and you fail to engage with the points.
Again, your failure to address issues and to spout polemic makes any valid points you do make (and there are some) questionable as all you are doing is regurgitating prejudice not debating.

I don't have the answer Oranges.

I doubt anyone on Mumsnet does when the problem is so hard it has confounded the best minds in the world who have tried to solve the problem, including people whose job it is to try to work on developing a solution.

All I do know is that the two state solution is more realistic and fairer to both sides than the one state solution. Jewish people deserve one country that is predominantly Jewish. Muslim people do too of course but there already exist lots of Muslim majority countries.

I acknowledge we are a long way away from being able to achieve a two state solution and the actions of Hamas and extremist members of the Israeli government have only served to move it even further away. It still remains the best solution in my mind, though there is a lot to do re removing the extremists from power first before any real progress can be made.

I'm sure I mentioned to you in a previous post that I'm more interested in facts than unsubstantiated opinions. Opinions are fine if there are facts to back them up. I, actually told you it was payable by all non Muslims. You were trying to imply it was a tool to persecute Jews. It was also only applied to men of fighting age who had wealth and wanted to be exempt from military service but still be assured of protection by the army, hence they were called Dhimmis which means protected people. If on the other hand, they wished to help fight for the country, they were exempt from Jizya. They also did not have to pay the Zakat tax which is what Muslims did. To conclude, your opinion that all Jews were constantly systematically persecuted in the Muslim world is wrong unless you have some facts to back it up.