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Anti Semitism to increase after the government sides with Islamists

356 replies

mids2019 · 09/09/2026 06:25

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-16115899/Miliband-accused-Jews-UK-danger-Chief-Rabbi-Tory-leader-react-Labour-sanctions-Israeli.OrlaNdo memorial

The government's decision to sanction Israel, a democratic ally in the ME, surely is a reward to all those that have spouted Jew hate on our city streets. If the government is willing to distance itself from Israel won't this be seen as further motivation for the radical Islmist left to continue their campaigns in the UK. It's a shameful moment and it will take a lot to rebuild relations with Israel.

Chief Rabbi and Tory leader react furiously to Labour sanctions

Britain's Chief Rabbi said a trade ban on Israeli settlements in the West Bank was 'truly a dark day for British Jews'.

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-16115899/Miliband-accused-Jews-UK-danger-Chief-Rabbi-Tory-leader-react-Labour-sanctions-Israeli.html

OP posts:
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14
DeterminedRat · 11/09/2026 14:30

HowDoYouSolveAProblemLikeMyRear · 11/09/2026 13:48

Yes and, as I said, they've carried on longer than I think they should have. I feel incredibly sorry for the innocent Palestinians who never voted for Hamas and who never took part in the violence. Honestly, I feel sorry for majority of them, who voted for Hamas and sympathised with the violence too - it would be hard not to feel sad for people who are suffering, no matter what they've done in the past.

Nevertheless, there's a significant moral difference between the military response from Israel and the terrorism from Hamas. Hamas has bombed Israel most days for years. Palestine refused any settlement (wasn't it Arafat who said it wasn't enough to have all the territory they were fighting for - they wanted nothing short of Israel wiped off the map). I think there comes a time when responding to repeated attacks by attacking your attacker becomes self-defence. They're only going to be safe if Hamas is destroyed. I don't agree with the degree of the response but it isn't without some justification - I see it much like a woman who eventually snaps and murders her abusive partner, or who incapacitates her rapist but then carries on injuring them until they're pretty much dead. Neither response is truly proportional or morally right, but they're understandable.

But there's a much bigger difference - the difference of the nature of the violence. Israel gave warnings, allowed in food and medicine, targeted buildings and places where they had reason to believe Hamas was hiding out, and kept prisoners in humane conditions. Too many innocent people have been killed or maimed by the bombs - some of them were deliberately put in harm's way by Hamas; others were not. Some prisoners have been terribly treated over the years, but it hasn't been a policy or even systematic.

Hamas revelled in violence, rape, and torture. They systematically targeted civilians rather than soldiers or politicians, and they systematically targeted families, the elderly, children and babies. They mocked, raped, tortured, maimed, killed their victims and repeatedly captured it on film, boasting about it and further increasing their families' pain. And it's significant that none of the Muslim countries in the area welcome in Gazan refugees. They may be Israel's enemies, but they don't want such sadistically violent men in their countries.

I can't imagine the pain of having my child blown up by a foreign army and my home destroyed. But I'd rather my child be killed in a bomb, than that they be gang-raped, tortured and brutalized before being murdered.

These sanctions are about the Israeli terrorists who are attempting to ethnically cleanse innocent people, men, women and children in the West Bank. It's about the UK upholding it's duties to international law. 2 years ago the ICJ found that Israel are illegal occupiers who are responsible for apartheid. There is a responsibility on all UN states to help end this. These sanctions, although mainly lip service, are there to prevent the UK from helping Israel along in their oppression of Palestinians.

Perhaps a little bit of reading on daily life for those in those people who are being brutalised in the West Bank may be helpful to help you understand what these sanctions are about.

This is what back to school looks like for Palestinian children in the West Bank. Ambulance crews are stationed outside and parents wait outside all day to try and make sure their children don't get killed going to school after a child was shot and killed at the school gates.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3wj45g73g1o
This is a week of Israeli violence in the West Bank:
https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/c3wjq1188g9o
This article covers 2 days of Israeli violence in the West Bank:
www.timesofisrael.com/two-palestinians-hurt-by-settler-gunfire-including-nurse-said-to-be-paralyzed-for-life/amp/

Palestinian kids walk to school. They are wearing blue school uniforms.

Palestinian parents fear for children's lives at school as settler attacks grow

A headteacher in the occupied West Bank has installed new barbed wire fencing after three pupils were killed this year.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3wj45g73g1o

RedTagAlan · 11/09/2026 14:40

iwishitwouldstartraining · 11/09/2026 14:17

But people who believe Italy has a right to exist aren't described as anything. It's just assumed that Italy has a right to exist because of international law.

Is it not possible to believe that Israel has a right to exist in the same way that any other country has a right to exist?

Is there a word for believing Italy should exist ? Probably not. But we can invent one. Italyist.

I believe Italy has a right to exist. That would make me an Italyist. Same I believe Israel has the same right. That makes me a Zionist.

The same as I believe in an Indy Scotland. That makes me a Scottish Nationalist. I may not like the label of Scottish Nationalist. But I am one. By definition. Same as I am a Zionist by definition. That I am both of these things, does not mean I agree what extreme people with the same title think. Same as believing Germany has a right to exist does not make one a fan of the Austrian corporal.

The only difference is that there is a distinct word for believing Israel has a right to exist, in it's location.

iwishitwouldstartraining · 11/09/2026 15:00

RedTagAlan · 11/09/2026 14:40

Is there a word for believing Italy should exist ? Probably not. But we can invent one. Italyist.

I believe Italy has a right to exist. That would make me an Italyist. Same I believe Israel has the same right. That makes me a Zionist.

The same as I believe in an Indy Scotland. That makes me a Scottish Nationalist. I may not like the label of Scottish Nationalist. But I am one. By definition. Same as I am a Zionist by definition. That I am both of these things, does not mean I agree what extreme people with the same title think. Same as believing Germany has a right to exist does not make one a fan of the Austrian corporal.

The only difference is that there is a distinct word for believing Israel has a right to exist, in it's location.

But isn't it important that Israel's right to exist should be on a par with Italy's right to exist regardless of whether or not anyone describes that as zionism?

I'm not disputing anyone's right to define themself as a zionist, but from an international law point of view, if recognising Israel = zionist, doesn't that muddy the waters?

If Scotland became an independent country, people who had campaigned against independence would have to recognise it as such, but that wouldn't make them Scottish Nationalists.

RedTagAlan · 11/09/2026 15:14

iwishitwouldstartraining · 11/09/2026 15:00

But isn't it important that Israel's right to exist should be on a par with Italy's right to exist regardless of whether or not anyone describes that as zionism?

I'm not disputing anyone's right to define themself as a zionist, but from an international law point of view, if recognising Israel = zionist, doesn't that muddy the waters?

If Scotland became an independent country, people who had campaigned against independence would have to recognise it as such, but that wouldn't make them Scottish Nationalists.

Quote " If Scotland became an independent country, people who had campaigned against independence would have to recognise it as such, but that wouldn't make them Scottish Nationalists."

Good point. And that is I I think this is an odd concept. Because there is not a word that says Scotland should exist. It really is just language. A better example might be the USA. There is a word, confederate, for people who do not believe the USA should exist as it is. And there is Unionist, for people who think it does. And I think we only have those word because they had a way over it.

Personally, I just avoid using the word Zionist. Settlers with guns, I just call them what they are. Ultra nationalist expansionists. or land grabbers.

StopMeStopMeStopMe · 11/09/2026 16:22

LandLaser · 11/09/2026 13:51

Just to clear, do you think that the 80% of Jewish people who describe themselves as zionists are wrong about what zionism is? Or are you saing that they are all carrying out acts of violence?

And I'm not sure what you mean by no other context.

Just to clear, do you think that the 80% of Jewish people who describe themselves as zionists are wrong about what zionism is?

No, I’m not saying they are wrong, I’m saying that people mean different things when they say the word Zionism and have different understandings of what it is. I imagine people who describe themselves as zionists do not all mean exactly the same thing.

This article by Ethan Katz explains some of the different understandings of what zionism and also anti-zionism are. I haven’t finished reading it yet but the first section (up to “Critical anti-Zionism—A Short History”) talks about the different meanings people attach to the words.

Or are you saing that they are all carrying out acts of violence?

No, I’m not saying that at all and I’ve no idea how you’ve interpreted what I’ve said to possibly mean that.

And I'm not sure what you mean by no other context.

All I meant by this is that in my fictional analogy, say this ethnic group had a belief in environmentalism which they called “earthsaviourism”, then in my made up world “earthsaviorism” is not used in any other context than as the name of this group’s beliefs. It is not a general word for environmentalist beliefs.

So then if this group engage in eco-terrorism, that word “earthsaviourism” would soon become generally used to mean the eco-terrorist activities carried out by the group.

I hope this clarifies my somewhat convoluted analogy.

https://www.sourcesjournal.org/articles/when-is-anti-zionism-antisemitic-getting-beyond-the-polemics

Anti Semitism to increase after the government sides with Islamists
Anti Semitism to increase after the government sides with Islamists
Therattt · 11/09/2026 16:35

DeterminedRat · 11/09/2026 14:30

These sanctions are about the Israeli terrorists who are attempting to ethnically cleanse innocent people, men, women and children in the West Bank. It's about the UK upholding it's duties to international law. 2 years ago the ICJ found that Israel are illegal occupiers who are responsible for apartheid. There is a responsibility on all UN states to help end this. These sanctions, although mainly lip service, are there to prevent the UK from helping Israel along in their oppression of Palestinians.

Perhaps a little bit of reading on daily life for those in those people who are being brutalised in the West Bank may be helpful to help you understand what these sanctions are about.

This is what back to school looks like for Palestinian children in the West Bank. Ambulance crews are stationed outside and parents wait outside all day to try and make sure their children don't get killed going to school after a child was shot and killed at the school gates.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3wj45g73g1o
This is a week of Israeli violence in the West Bank:
https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/c3wjq1188g9o
This article covers 2 days of Israeli violence in the West Bank:
www.timesofisrael.com/two-palestinians-hurt-by-settler-gunfire-including-nurse-said-to-be-paralyzed-for-life/amp/

But most Jewish people living in Judea and Samaria are peaceful people just living their lifes. There is under 1000 " violent" settlers and they should absolutely be dealt with but these sanctions won't effect them at all.

localnotail · 11/09/2026 16:39

iwishitwouldstartraining · 11/09/2026 13:30

I am sure I am demonstrating huge amounts of ignorance here, but isn't it possible to believe that a country has a right to exist simply because it does exist and is recognised by other countries? If somebody believes that Israel has a right to exist in the same way that Italy has a right to exist, are you saying that they are Zionist?

Maybe Google what Zionism is?

Babyboomtastic · 11/09/2026 16:40

Therattt · 11/09/2026 16:35

But most Jewish people living in Judea and Samaria are peaceful people just living their lifes. There is under 1000 " violent" settlers and they should absolutely be dealt with but these sanctions won't effect them at all.

Even those who aren't violent personally, if they love in settlements, are loving in land that had been violently and illegally stolen from others. All settlers are to blame for choosing to live on stolen land.

Therattt · 11/09/2026 16:47

Babyboomtastic · 11/09/2026 16:40

Even those who aren't violent personally, if they love in settlements, are loving in land that had been violently and illegally stolen from others. All settlers are to blame for choosing to live on stolen land.

Where are you proposing moving over half a million people to though? Many of whom have lived there for decades.

localnotail · 11/09/2026 16:49

Therattt · 11/09/2026 16:47

Where are you proposing moving over half a million people to though? Many of whom have lived there for decades.

You know what the proposal is. It has been tried out on Oct 7th.

RedTagAlan · 11/09/2026 16:51

Therattt · 11/09/2026 16:35

But most Jewish people living in Judea and Samaria are peaceful people just living their lifes. There is under 1000 " violent" settlers and they should absolutely be dealt with but these sanctions won't effect them at all.

When you say Judea and Samaria , should you not be saying West Bank. That being Palestinian territory.

iwishitwouldstartraining · 11/09/2026 16:52

localnotail · 11/09/2026 16:39

Maybe Google what Zionism is?

I have and, as far as I can see, the definition doesn't cover people who have no strong belief about whether Israel should or shouldn't exist but simply believe that, like Italy, it does exist, and therefore has as much right to exist as any other country.

iwishitwouldstartraining · 11/09/2026 16:55

Therattt · 11/09/2026 16:35

But most Jewish people living in Judea and Samaria are peaceful people just living their lifes. There is under 1000 " violent" settlers and they should absolutely be dealt with but these sanctions won't effect them at all.

and they should absolutely be dealt with

So why have they not been dealt with?

DeterminedRat · 11/09/2026 17:12

Therattt · 11/09/2026 16:35

But most Jewish people living in Judea and Samaria are peaceful people just living their lifes. There is under 1000 " violent" settlers and they should absolutely be dealt with but these sanctions won't effect them at all.

They are still participating in the illegal occupation of the West Bank, can you participate in the oppression of people 'peacefully', I'm not sure that you can.

These 'peaceful' Israelis make these illegal settlements physically permanent, exploiting Palestinian resources for their own gain. Their presence there makes the settlements a continuing reality. No settlers, 'peaceful' or violently barbaric means no illegal settlements.

Their home is probably part of an Israeli settlement plan that has been built to entrench Israels control over the area. The roads that they use have been built to fragment Palestinian communities. Their communities have been designed to push Palestinians out, their very presence makes Palestinians lives more difficult and more dangerous.

At the end of the day without these 'peaceful settlers' there would be no illegal occupation. Their presence ensures that the occupation and subjugation of Palestinians continues and can that ever really be 'peaceful'?

Babyboomtastic · 11/09/2026 17:20

Therattt · 11/09/2026 16:47

Where are you proposing moving over half a million people to though? Many of whom have lived there for decades.

Not my problem. Back to Israel I guess. If someone moved there and had a family there knowing they were illegally squatting (which they would have done), then they can hardly complain if evicted.

DeterminedRat · 11/09/2026 17:22

Therattt · 11/09/2026 16:47

Where are you proposing moving over half a million people to though? Many of whom have lived there for decades.

I don't think that they would all necessarily have to move. A peace agreement could be negotiated whereby they could continue living in Palestine as permenant residents if they agreed to respect Palestinian sovereignty and laws. If they wanted to live under the Israeli government then they would of course have to move to Israel though.

Newbutoldfather · 11/09/2026 17:37

If we ever get to a proper two state solution, both sides will have to compromise.

The Israelis will have to recognise that the Palestinians need a contiguous governable state, and remove some of the newer settlements. As @DeterminedRat says, some of the older settlements could remain as Jewish residents within Palestine.

And they will somehow have to work out how to share Jerusalem.

The Palestinians will have to recognise the reality on the ground and the distrust, so that they won’t immediately be able to be a full armed state, but will have to take things slowly under international supervision. And clearly, parties like Hamas, with Jewish elimination in their actual aims, will not be allowed to govern.

It’s a massive project that needs a lot of goodwill on both sides and international pressure and help.

Therattt · 11/09/2026 17:58

DeterminedRat · 11/09/2026 17:22

I don't think that they would all necessarily have to move. A peace agreement could be negotiated whereby they could continue living in Palestine as permenant residents if they agreed to respect Palestinian sovereignty and laws. If they wanted to live under the Israeli government then they would of course have to move to Israel though.

I can't really see Israel agreeing to any 2 state solution that doesn't have them having control of most of this area. If the highlands were Palestinian and the same think happened as it did when Israel withdrew from Gaza then Israel would be obliterated. So that's not going to happen. Land swaps would probably be what would happen.

RelaxAndDetox · 11/09/2026 18:51

LoremIpsumCici · 10/09/2026 08:16

I gather you got those figures from the UK/Israel tech hub. They aren’t reflected in the UK.gov documents though. It appears the source of the 1 in 7 prescriptions is a marketing claim by Teva. I can’t find it in anything official. Plus most of the drugs supplied to the UK by Teva are manufactured in the UK so they’re not imported.

The opposition also commented on the drugs used by the NHS from Israel. Are the opposition also wrong?

RelaxAndDetox · 11/09/2026 18:54

CaptainMyCaptain · 10/09/2026 08:19

Do you think that, in any way, compares to the destruction of Gaza? Has your city been razed to the ground recently?

My city hasn't sent thousands of terrorists into the neighbouring country murdering, raping, torturing and kidnapping. With people back home whooping in delight and celebrating.

If my city did that then I'd expect a war to break out.

Newbutoldfather · 11/09/2026 19:01

These very limited sanctions are a slap on the wrist for Israel.

The main trade between Israel and the UK still continues as normal.

And I suspect we could easily replace the TEVA generic pharmaceuticals that they supply us, at least far more easily than they could replace the military equipment that we sell to them, including F35 parts.

Comesround · 11/09/2026 19:02

These threads get ever more ridiculous.

What is so difficult to understand about sanctions in response to an attempted genocide?

I share your concern that the Israeli government doesn't seem to care that its actions against the people of Gaza incite anti-Semitic behaviour. But this sanction is not in itself anti-Semitic. It's an attempt to respond humanely to an Israeli government that seems to care nothing for that human rights of other communities.

Radical positions like the one you are taking are also doing nothing to avoid anti-Semitic attitudes.

SharonEllis · 11/09/2026 19:30

Comesround · 11/09/2026 19:02

These threads get ever more ridiculous.

What is so difficult to understand about sanctions in response to an attempted genocide?

I share your concern that the Israeli government doesn't seem to care that its actions against the people of Gaza incite anti-Semitic behaviour. But this sanction is not in itself anti-Semitic. It's an attempt to respond humanely to an Israeli government that seems to care nothing for that human rights of other communities.

Radical positions like the one you are taking are also doing nothing to avoid anti-Semitic attitudes.

The sanctions are in relation to the settlers on the West Bank. Nothing to do with Gaza and supposed genocide. Who is misunderstanding again? Your last sentence doesn't even make sense. The only people responsible for racism are racists.

OnePeppyFatball · 12/09/2026 05:54

Don’t think it’s about taking sides. More like honouring agreements. From the Independent:

“A sudden and seismic row, allegations of “ethnic cleansing” against Jewish militia from the British government and a counterattack from Israel in shuttering the British mission to Palestinians have followed the UK’s decision to impose sanctions on Israel’s project to build illegal Jewish colonies on the occupied West Bank.
In announcing the trade sanctions, foreign secretary Ed Miliband said: “The British government agrees that there is ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in areas of the West Bank - perpetrated by settler terrorists.
“All too often the Israeli government has turned a blind eye to this, and worse, members of it have made statements and taken actions to support the forced displacement of Palestinians.”
“Ethnic cleansing” and “forced displacement” are often seen as acts of genocide. In the context of Miliband’s language, sanctions against settlers seem disproportionately low and leave the State of Israel off the hook. But the effects of the new British legislation will be felt far more widely. ”
“Britain’s 20th-century history with Israel and the Palestinians has held a special grip on both communities at least since 1917 – the year when a Zionist dream was made real, on paper.
The so-called Balfour Declaration, a letter sent by then foreign secretary James Balfour to Lord Rothschild, has been seen by the Arab world as the original betrayal, a colonial project that has saddled the region with misery.
For the many in the Jewish diaspora, it was the moment that an imperial government which was running Palestine made a “promise” to bring a Jewish State into being.”
“Not so much the midwife as the IVF clinic for the conception of what is now Israel, Britain’s role was special then. And so its sanctions against Israeli settlements on Palestinian land captured by Israel in 1967 have a potency beyond their economic power.
The last Conservative government introduced legislation, in line with demands from Israel, that essentially argued that calling for Boycotts, Disinvestment or Sanctions (BDS) against Israel was anti-Semitic and should be banned. The bill was shelved by Sir Keir Starmer, but his government still maintained a policy of rejecting all and any BDS.
That has now changed. The argument that economic sanctions of any kind against the Jewish State was an atavistic attack on all Jews has been a central part of Israel’s external policies for years. It is a terrible argument that has been blown apart by the UK’s new legislation.”
“But it is nearly impossible to impose a trade ban on the Jewish colonies of the West Bank when the goods they export are identified as being products of Israel. They’ll never say “produced in Palestine” because Israel says there is, and has never been, such a place.
So an importer, or a consumer, keen to comply with new legislation intended to stop the building of “E1” – a gigantic extension of Jerusalem that would bisect the West Bank and destroy territorial integrity for the Palestinians – may decide to boycott all Israeli products to avoid failure to comply with sanctions against settlements.”
“This is the kind of creeping pressure that Israel is allergic to. And sets the UK on a collision course with the government of Benjamin Netanyahu and the White House. The latter has sanctioned jurists with the International Criminal Court for its indictment of Israel’s prime minister and then defence minister, Yoav Gallant, for alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Their actions in Gaza, where around 70,000 people were killed, of whom more than 45,000 were women and children, in response to the October 7 massacre, have shocked liberal Jewish groups around the world who have campaigned for a “two state solution” of secure nations for Israelis and Palestinians for years.
On the West Bank, which Netanyahu wants to annex without its 2.5 million Palestinian population, Jewish militia have been forcing non-Jews from their homes in a violent campaign overseen by Israel’s security forces.”
“Ed Miliband, the foreign secretary, was visibly shocked after getting a recent briefing on Gaza. He said in response that “we have to act and to act more decisively” as the settlement sanctions were approaching.
Mike Huckabee, the Christian fundamentalist End Time enthusiast and US ambassador to Israel, snapped back on X with: “The Brits have lost it. The Jew hate of their government knows no boundaries and knows no facts”. Miliband is Jewish.”
“Balfour wrote in 1917: “His Majesty’s Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.”
The UK government is now, in a limited way, trying to make good on that original commitment to a national home for the Jews that does not prejudice the civil and religious rights of “existing non-Jewish communities”.
Israel’s government is committed to an apartheid structure, land grabs, and has the death penalty that applies only to ethnic non-Jews. It was not always like that and Britain’s sanctions may steer it back towards a less doomed direction.”

Excerpt From
“This is why UK sanctions against West Bank settlers are so seismic”
Sam Kiley
The Independent
https://apple.news/ADK9xhfUMSlauzfwqqDlg1w
This material may be protected by copyright.

This is why UK sanctions against West Bank settlers are so seismic — The Independent

The UK’s decision to sanction Israeli settlers in the West Back has caused a furious diplomatic row. Britain’s historical role in the establishment of Israel tells us why the move has such potency beyond the negligible economic impact, explains world a...

https://apple.news/ADK9xhfUMSlauzfwqqDlg1w

OnePeppyFatball · 12/09/2026 05:57

But in Haarezt this is quite worrying as well no?

At two Jewish conferences, speakers turn fears of antisemitism into attacks on Islam
Some conservative leaders are responding to Jewish fears about antisemitism by casting Muslims and Islam as a central threat - and hoping that message will move Jewish voters to the right