Anti Semitism to increase after the government sides with Islamists

[mids2019]

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-16115899/Miliband-accused-Jews-UK-danger-Chief-Rabbi-Tory-leader-react-Labour-sanctions-Israeli.OrlaNdo memorial

The government's decision to sanction Israel, a democratic ally in the ME, surely is a reward to all those that have spouted Jew hate on our city streets. If the government is willing to distance itself from Israel won't this be seen as further motivation for the radical Islmist left to continue their campaigns in the UK. It's a shameful moment and it will take a lot to rebuild relations with Israel.

France was liberated because a war was fought and won, not because of diplomacy.

Germany did not end the war as one country so who knows what would have happened if things had gone the other way?

Quote " Over 140 countries officially recognize the State of Palestine, and the ICJ explicitly ruled that the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem constitute a single legal Palestinian sovereign state."

I won't factcheck that. I just want to say, they only have to get more than 13 to beat Taiwan, The ROC. Even the UN does not officially recognize Taiwan. UN Resolution 2758 of 1971.

UN Link here.

Restoration of the lawful rights of the People's Republic of China in the United Nations.

But there is really only one country that insists that Taiwan is not a state.

Sorry for the tangent. I am just adding an example of a state that is not a state but actually is.

To me it means Israel will recognize Palestine as a state, and vice versa

@Squeezingwildoranges ,

‘Palestine is different from France in that it has been occupied by one power after another.’

But who was occupied? Which army was defeated the first time ‘it’ was occupied? Who signed the surrender document?

The answer is the above doesn’t apply because it has never been a state.

‘The people have existed on the land for centuries though no matter who was occupying them. France’

This is very true and those people need to have rights and not be forcibly expelled. Hence the cause for the formation of a Palestinian state. I don’t think anyone even called for the formation of a Palestinian state until the 1960s and the term Palestinian as exclusive to that ethnicity (as opposed to combined Jews and Palestinians) only came into being in the mid 20th century.

As I have said (repeatedly) I am in favour of a 2 state solution. But that would be bringing a new state into being, not recognising an existing one. And the need for that only really arises because of the way Israel has treated the Palestinian population.

It's pretty meaningless without Israel recognising Palestine as a state isn't it?

Symbolic, performative, pick your adjective.

A new state can't just be willed into existence because Starmer said so, or Macron or whoever. What have their words helped achieve on the ground?

A 2 state solution needs mutual respect and recognition between Israel and Palestine. Which seems further away then ever.

As I said, Palestine was occupied by one empire after another. I don't think when talking about states you have to use the European model of a state. The Middle East was primarily a series of city states with regional boundaries defined by geographical features like mountains and rivers. It wasn't until Sykes Picot carved the region up that we get the modern Middle Eastern countries that we see now with random borders drawn on a map. As I said earlier, countries don't have rights, people do and the people are still living in the same land. Anyway, history aside, what matters is the legal ruling. The United Nations recognizes Palestine as a state with its official borders being the Green Line. 157 UN member states recognize Palestine as a state. The ICJ has ruled on where Palestines state borders are. It is not mine or your opinion, it is legally defined.

'

I am not so sure about that. I posted upthread about Taiwan only being recognized by 13 states. But it is a state. There is only one nation that insists it is not.

With that in mind, I don't think it is performative. Equate Palestine to Taiwan. Because all it would take for Taiwan to be universally accepted would be for the PRC to drop it's claim.

Would the same not happen if Israel dropped it's claim ?

A 2 state solution gives both parties equal footing to work out a solution. That is what Israel doesn't want to accept.

Murder and genocide in the name of a country or religion will be what increases anti-semitism, not the working together to find a solution or countries calling for the bloodshed to stop. The profiteering from the land by the Israeli and American governments won't help how people view Israel either. Whether that is backed by Judaism is something Israel needs to own.

How does your first paragraph make sense? You seem to be suggesting it will take a 2 state solution to work out a 2 state solution.

No wonder it has been impossible to achieve all these years.

If it’s not performative then presumably we already have a 2 state solution and all the organisations calling for one can disband.

I don’t equate Palestine with Taiwan. It is its own place with its own unique set of issues & problems. It will never achieve statehood with Hamas ruling the Gaza Strip, that I know.

Quote "I don’t equate Palestine with Taiwan. ".

Yeah. Maybe you don't, but one easily can.

Question. Is Taiwan an independent sovereign state ?

How can you seriously equate Taiwan with Palestine?

Taiwan doesn't employ systematic, generational indoctrination into terrorism to try to destroy China, while continuously rejecting itself as a sovereign State so it can declare itself 'oppressed'.

There also isn't a billion $ aid industry reliant on Taiwan remaining 'oppressed'.

You are absolutely right that the two situations are not comparable when it comes to the day to day conditions. The pressure and geopolitical isolation China imposes on Taiwan is fundamentally different from the decades of military occupation, blockades, and civilian casualties that the Palestinian population has endured. Palestine is a recognised sovereign state and the UN sees it as such. Problem they have is they are brutally occupied and the most powerful country in the world continues to support the oppression by crippling the UN with their veto.

It is Not a state!
What is it's capital? Oh yeah, it's wanna be capital is Jerusalem. Kinda gives the impression that it's charter might mean it has no intention of being a nice and peaceful neighbour to Israel.

Have you knowledge of history in this area at all? If so, you would know Up until now, Israel has always said it would work towards a 2 state solution. It was the Palestinians who consistently refused.
And now, are you seriously surprised they feel they don't want to and can't trust them to feel safe again?

East Jerusalem is in Palestine.

"It's" charter. Who is it?

Where is this 'Palestine'?

Where are it's borders?

Who is it's leader?

What is it's currency?

What colour is it's passport?

Do you see how stupid this is?

It's a fantasy that Palestine is already a state.

That you just have to want something to be true and it is.

The title asks what is going to increase anti-semitism. Genocide, lying to the world and misdirection will do this. The semantics of this particular situation are just that - what Israel is doing is not following Judaism, but a large number of Israelis are suggesting it is. That is where the global view on Israel and Judaism is at a cross-roads and for many has been crossed. Repeatedly. Arguing the toss about why one country is trying to annhiliate any specific group, as should be obvious to the Jewish people, is simply justification of mass murder and persecution.

The only ones to blame for antisemitism are antisemites. Not Jews.

I think there are two types of antisemites. The purely bigoted racist ones and the ignorant ones who don't like Israeli policy towards the Palestinians but are incapable of distinguishing between an ethnic/religious group and a political entity. Neither is excusable but one can be educated whereas the first never will be.

Then you have answered the thread. You win!

@Squeezingwildoranges ,

In a sense I agree with you.

There are the right wing old fashioned antisemites, who are modern day Nazis, and own their racism as a badge of honour. And then there are the left wing antisemites who don’t think they are antisemites at all. They think they are righteously confronting Israeli colonialism.

However, they are careless in their conflation of Israelis and Jews and are perfectly happy to scream abuse at any Jew in a kippah as they just assume they are a ‘Zio’.

I am not sure which are more dangerous. I suspect the latter as they tend to be better educated and more influential.

Mendacious deflection.