Discussion of the 26 June Gaza protest calling for self-rule

[dairydebris]

This is a thread for us to discuss the planned June 26 protest by Gazan Palestinians- the aim of which is to pressure Hamas to honour the ceasefire agreement and allow Gazans self rule.

Brave people who take part.

Watching and wishing them safety and hoping they can suceed.

So what - it is a nasty little corner of MN. What do you think - it's a place people come to chat about nice things and everyone's lovely & polite?

Never seen Dairy accusing anyone of being racist for speaking out for Palestinians. Don't believe she would do that as she has never indicated having anything against ordinary Palestinians, only Hamas.

She may have observed some comments were antisemitic, I don't know.

That is feasible to me because there have been many posts deleted on this board for being antisemitic.

Bloody hell they are brave and they can see for themselves they are just disposable pawns.

The focus on Israel even on a thread about protests in Gaza against Hamas is noticeable, yes.

There are dozens of existing threads to criticise Israel, even ones dedicated to it. We don't need to keep rehashing things everyone already knows about like the lack of international journalists in Gaza. That is mentioned on this board way more than the IRGC imposing a complete internet black out in Iran! Let alone inviting international journalists into Iran to get a good look at what is going on there.

So brave. At the very least the mainstream media could acknowledge the bravery by widely reporting it to raise awareness so it wasn't for nothing. Each protestor was risking a lot to be heard.

@Twiglets1 and @IsEveryUserNameBloodyTaken my posts referencing Israel were relevant to the discussion in the thread whether you like it or not I dirld not shoehorn them in. Considering Israel are currently occupying 60% of Gaza means they are very relevant in any discussion about Gaza.

@dairydebris I was only pointing out to twiglets that my experience of you was different to theirs so it was in her opinion not fact as they had presented it. I do take issue with being called racist which you did do to me and others whether @Twiglets1 believes it or not.

How is the 60% occupation relevant to Gazans protesting against Hamas?

What I said was I've never seen Dairy accusing anyone of being racist for speaking out for Palestinians. That was your accusation.

They may have accused people of being antisemitic which is a form of racism, I don't know.

Because it's highlighting the rock and the hard place they're in ffs I'm repeating myself now. Israel kill them Hamas kill them they've no where to turn and no one trust.

See this is what I mean about posting in bad faith and with an agenda.
And how are Israel occupying 60% of Gaza.

You made that point on page 1 - why shoehorn in something we had stopped talking about pages ago.

Dairy agreed with you, she said I agree that Gazan Palestinians are caught between two parties of oppression.

I agreed with both of you on that, I said Agree. And also that they are incredibly brave to participate in protests.

None of what I'm posting is in bad faith so please just drop these unfounded accusations I'm posting my opinion same as everyone else. Having a different perspective on something does not equal bad faith

Yup you are still shoehorning in Israel.
That’s why nothing will get better for the Palestinians as they are just pawns.

You are pushing an anti Israel agenda, you are not posting anything relevant about the Hamas situation so no, they are not unfounded accusations.

Yeah I did which is why I actually said I'm repeating myself!!

why shoehorn in something we had stopped talking about pages ago.
Because you asked me why I'm talking about Israel so I went back to my point on Palestinians being caught between a rock and a hard place.

I agreed with both of you on that,
So why did you ask me this???
How is the 60% occupation relevant to Gazans protesting against Hamas?

Ok I'm done

Whatever, done explaining myself to you. You have done nothing but criticise me and barely engaged with the topic of the thread beyond that so there's no point in attempting to engage with you any further you've an opinion of me which I'm not likely able to change so I won't waste any more time trying to

Forgive me if its a bit philosophical, but I agree Palestinians are being treated as pawns by absolutely everyone. We all write our beliefs onto them and use them to further our own agendas- you or I or Israeli Leadership or Hamas. They are used as a tool to build hatred of Israel, they are used as an excuse for the violence of settlers with a supremacist agenda, they are used as meat to the endless grinder by Hamas idealogy, their grief is weaponised and exploited, their struggle is used by influencers to build their brands... literally no one seems to have their actual best interests at heart.
Thats why I was so interested to hear their actual voices in this protest. Their voices unfiltered through Israeli or Hamas controlled media, or direct rather than through a Facebook post pushed by someone's larger agenda.

Stop repeating yourself then by focusing on Gazans problems with Israel when this thread is about Gazans problems with Hamas.

You made the point that Gazans are between a rock and a hard place and it was agreed with by Debris and myself.

Yet rather than move onto discussing the Gaza protests against Hamas (what the thread is about!) you keep reverting to talking about Israel instead.

Article including the video of Palestinians in Gaza protesting against Hamas on June 26th.

The ToI make the point that none of the footage could be easily verified, and it was not published by the major media outlets in Gaza, which are affiliated with Hamas.

Earlier this week, several Gaza residents told The Times of Israel that Hamas had warned journalists in Gaza not to cover the protests.

Instead, major Gazan outlets on Friday published footage showing empty intersections where protests had allegedly been planned, declaring the “Failure of the June 26 Revolution.”

A resident of central Gaza confirmed to The Times of Israel that masked men affiliated with Hamas had been present in the streets of Deir al-Balah to prevent protesters from gathering.

He also said a small number of people took part in anti-Hamas demonstrations in Gaza City and other parts of northern Gaza, while people stayed home in central Gaza amid Hamas warnings on social media against participating in the rallies.

The resident asked not to be named due to concerns for his safety.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/bucking-threats-hundreds-in-gaza-seen-protesting-hamas-for-first-time-in-a-year/

Yes agree with you totally.

It is unfair to accuse @Boolabus of posting in bad faith. The points they have made referencing the reasons for absence of media coverage and the impossible situation in which Palestinians are caught are absolutely valid. You cannot make these points without acknowledging Israel’s part. If you disagree with these, perhaps you could explain why@IsEveryUserNameBloodyTaken, rather than attacking pp for having an ‘agenda’ rather than a valid opinion based on fact.

I agree with you @Martymcfly24 :

Its a terrorist group.
How are unarmed people going to stand up to that?
If Israel with all its military might couldn't beat Hamas how are some displaced starving civilians..

‘I hope this can help raise awareness of the awful issues these people daily face.’ @dairydebris

I hope so too. The only good that can come of this I think is that more people may realise and support the urgent need to allow in international media. There have been several efforts including a letter signed by journalists across 27 countries to attempt access, all of which have hit a brick wall. There are still live petitions eg Reporters without Frontiers.

Can I reverse this to make a point ?

Limited net where I am, so my data is for example only.

Yesterday I posted a link to a France 24 article about the protests last year, and it had this in it :

It estimated that 35 percent of Palestinians in Gaza said they supported Hamas, and 26 percent said they supported its rival Fatah, the party of Ramallah-based Palestinian Authority president Mahmoud Abbas.

So lets say 35% of people in Gaza support HAMAS.Now look at this.

Poll: 66% of Israelis want Netanyahu to leave politics, 85% support Oct. 7 probe | The Times of Israel

That headline : Poll: 66% of Israelis want Netanyahu to leave politics, 85% support Oct. 7 probe. Ok, it's a TV poll so not really valid ( Poll sites blocked where I am}, but by inference, that puts Netanyahu's support in Israel at 34%.

As @dairydebris points out, the Palestinian people are being used as pawns by too many people.

And there are people hoping to use Gaza protests against HAMAS as justification to keep bombing. And there will be people hoping for HAMAS to do a brutal crackdown on the protests so they can say " See, we need to bomb HAMAS out of existence.

Yet the data above suggests Netanyahu has less support in Israel than Hamas has in GAZA. And yes, while there are people who would like to see Israel bombed, that is not happening. Because protests should not be used as justification for war.

Re overseas dissidents. The UK has them too. Tommy ten names. Lives in Spain, organises protests in the UK, and at that these protests people call for the overthrow of the UK Government, and many yell for civil war. Anyone calling for Britain to be bombed to remove the Government ?

I reckon it is elections that are needed in Gaza.

As a small addition to my above post, and elections.

It does not help anyone that POTUS yells non stop that US elections are rigged against him. For the sake of democracy worldwide, it should really be him that is removed from power.

Who are the people hoping to use Gaza protests against Hamas as justification to keep bombing? I think you are attempting to link 2 completely separate things just to avoid saying - it’s awful that people in Gaza are so oppressed by Hamas they aren’t even allowed the right to protest.

Don’t you care about Gazans being oppressed by Hamas, only about them being oppressed by Israel? Because you don’t seem to want to discuss the protests beyond trying to put the blame elsewhere or compare Iranian dissidents to those in the UK or the popularity of Hamas to the popularity of Netanyahu. How are we supposed to gauge the popularity of Hamas when the people aren’t allowed to voice their true feelings?

This thread is about protests in Gaza whereas you want to focus on anything but. An example of Gazans being used as pawns to further other people’s agendas.