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Conflict in the Middle East

Is the penny finally starting to drop about anti semitism and hate marches?

801 replies

mids2019 · 05/05/2026 06:30

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/may/04/starmer-c al l-society-response-rising-antisemitism

I think we are now seeing the cumulative impact of the anti senitism that has built up over the last 3 years where there has been a permissive environment with politicians hesitant to intervene in events in the streets that have incubated anti Jew sentiment.

All political parties apart from the hate apologist Greens are now waking up to the fact we need better policing and perhaps legislation. I for one will acting a vote for a party that recognises hate marches for what they are and also willing to tackle the vile posts appearing on social media (and Labour have reacted too late too little). Enough is enough for a Jewish community that lives in perpetual fear.

‘A test of our values’: Starmer to call for whole-society response to rising antisemitism

PM will say responsibility to stand with Jewish communities lies with ‘every one of us’ at event on Tuesday

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/may/04/starmer-call-society-response-rising-antisemitism

OP posts:
Thread gallery
36
dairydebris · Today 11:16

Islandsofsand · Today 11:00

The softly softly diplomatic approach hasn’t worked.

The Israelis themselves need to call for change in the actions of their leadership.

This is not to say that all Israelis support actions of Netanyahu’s government and we will see how the new Israeli government will act towards the settlements increasing, for example.

Israelis probably do feel isolated but they have a choice ahead of them. Seeing impact of sanctions and review of trade / cultural / academic links gives them further pause to think of who they want to vote for and what kind of country they want to live in? Particularly when support in the US is also declining.

Perhaps they will see that there is a repercussion for the political choices they make in their leadership.

For example
www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/belgium-refuses-to-renew-passport-of-israeli-citizen-who-lives-over-green-line-mfa-says-measures-taken-against-disgraceful-move/ar-AA231U11

I agree with most of your post- particularly with regards to a change of leadership in Israel... but I don't see how the flotilla increases the chances of that? Perhaps you mean by highlighting the odiousness of some current members of the Knesset?

I'm going to leave this thread now on that tiny smidgen of common ground. In hopes of better leadership on both sides- both dedicated to a future without conflict for each side in a homeland of their own.

Islandsofsand · Today 11:16

Yes - it keeps the spotlight on Israel and its behaviour.

Twiglets1 · Today 12:35

Islandsofsand · Today 11:16

Yes - it keeps the spotlight on Israel and its behaviour.

The spotlight is never not on Israel and its behaviour.

Weirdly perhaps when you think for a moment about the IRGC and their behaviour.

Not to mention what is happening in other countries such as Afghanistan.

rainingsnoring · Today 12:49

noblegiraffe · Yesterday 08:26

It isn't widely used. I've just looked through news reporting from several UK and US news outlets regarding the aforementioned election, and none of them are using 'Jewish Lobby' to describe pro-Israeli funding. Neither do they identify Paul Singer and Miriam Adelson as Jewish, but as 'pro-Israel' billionaire for Paul Singer and 'Israeli American' megadonor for Miriam Adelson. If you know that they are Jewish and have seen them specifically referred to as part of a Jewish Lobby, it's probably by people who absolutely want you to know they are Jewish for antisemitic reasons. Like I said, antisemites used to highlight who was Jewish by putting brackets around their names. Referring to them as "Jewish Lobby" saves them the punctuation.

If it is widely used in the circles you are in, then perhaps you should find better circles. It's like people who start banging on about Zionists because it is in 'normal usage' who then find out that Zionist is a codeword for Jew and all the stuff they've been reading about Zionists controlling the media and having undue influence on world governments is just bog-standard antisemitism.

I won't use that particular phrase on here again because you clearly find it offensive.

It's not me finding it offensive that should stop you using it, it should be the fact that I have explained, and demonstrated, that it's often used by antisemites so say the exact thing that you said. I'm surprised that you have seen me point out that UN members have had to apologise for using it and shown Neo Nazis using it and decided that the problem is that I find it offensive.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

See, I would turn your 'none so blind...' phrase back on you and refer you back to @Stirabout's excellent post. You just keep self righteously saying the same thing on repeat and expecting me to be persuaded that you are right, that your very rude initial response was justified, etc, etc.
The fact that you now appear to be finding the fact that some Israelis attacked and tortured the activists on the flotillas amusing says it all. Your 'high morals' vary depending on which group is being discussed. You seek to patronise me but a bit of introspection from you and some others on here would be a positive thing.

rainingsnoring · Today 12:56

JadeHare · Today 08:21

Was going to say the same thing. If that’s the kind of mental gymnastics you do to make this kind of behavior acceptable.

Exactly. For some, it's one rule for one group and an entirely different set of rules for those that they don't feel an affiliation for, whether they are 'left wing fuckwits' or Muslims or brown people or whatever. That 'none so blind...' phrase springs to mind again.

Twiglets1 · Today 13:04

Once again for the hard of understanding, no one is saying the activists being harshly treated by Israel (or Spain) is amusing.

What is amusing is the attitude of the activists (who seem to have a saviour complex despite what they keep doing is of no benefit to Palestinians re aid or helping towards a 2 state solution) & the verbal joke made by Israel.

Bringing "brown people" into it is just deliberately provocative as no one else has mentioned colour of skin and it is irrelevant.

noblegiraffe · Today 13:07

rainingsnoring · Today 12:49

See, I would turn your 'none so blind...' phrase back on you and refer you back to @Stirabout's excellent post. You just keep self righteously saying the same thing on repeat and expecting me to be persuaded that you are right, that your very rude initial response was justified, etc, etc.
The fact that you now appear to be finding the fact that some Israelis attacked and tortured the activists on the flotillas amusing says it all. Your 'high morals' vary depending on which group is being discussed. You seek to patronise me but a bit of introspection from you and some others on here would be a positive thing.

You don’t appear to be able to understand what I’m saying and you are attributing other people’s posts to me.

And I’m still right that what you said was antisemitic and the fact that you appear to categorise people by whether they are Jewish or not is not normal behaviour.

noblegiraffe · Today 13:17

Twiglets1 · Today 12:35

The spotlight is never not on Israel and its behaviour.

Weirdly perhaps when you think for a moment about the IRGC and their behaviour.

Not to mention what is happening in other countries such as Afghanistan.

As if there isn’t any international attention on Israel right now.

I know that the people currently conducting complex negotiations will not be delighted by the bunch of amateur do-gooders sailing into the mix, chucking food in the sea and getting themselves captured.

Martymcfly24 · Today 13:51

If only international attention would stop Israel murdering/torturing/imprisoning and starving people.

Boolabus · Today 14:12

Twiglets1 · Today 10:50

So you agree that the activists treatment has become the story.

Not the thing they supposedly wanted to achieve which they don't seem to be achieving at all.

As @dairydebris questions, How has this selfie cruise furthered Palestinian civilians getting their own State?

The Israeli government and IDF treatment of the activists has become a story and also their reasons for going. It has shone a light on their treatment of civilians has angered the international community who are looking to their own elected representatives to take action. It can potentially accelerate actions to sanction Israel and make it harder for politicians to find excuses as to why this can't happen. As the saying goes Rome wasn't built in a day.
One of their aims is to challenge the blockade and demonstrate the lack of freedom of movement for Palestinians. The fact they were infiltrated and arrested in international waters, which is a war crime, has achieved that aim.

The definition of Activism is the practice of taking direct, vigorous action to bring about social, political, economic, or environmental change. It involves individuals or groups working together to challenge the status quo, solve societal problems, or advocate for a cause they believe serves the common good.
They are doing this.

How has it
furthered Palestinian civilians getting their own State?
Is that what you expected the flotilla to achieve? Their aims are clear.

https://freedomflotilla.org/our-approach/

Boolabus · Today 14:18

Twiglets1 · Today 11:03

Are you privy to the results of all their internal investigations? No.

But you will base your opinion on the evidence you think you know.

But you will base your opinion on the evidence you think you know.
No on the many reports documenting their lack of transparency and the infrequency of prosecutions

Twiglets1 · Today 14:42

Boolabus · Today 14:18

But you will base your opinion on the evidence you think you know.
No on the many reports documenting their lack of transparency and the infrequency of prosecutions

Do you study the reports of Spanish internal investigations? Or Iranian? Or any other country?

Just Israel? And why do you think any country should have to share the results of their internal investigations worldwide or be "transparent". I don't see people calling for transparency from other countries.

Boolabus · Today 14:59

Twiglets1 · Today 14:42

Do you study the reports of Spanish internal investigations? Or Iranian? Or any other country?

Just Israel? And why do you think any country should have to share the results of their internal investigations worldwide or be "transparent". I don't see people calling for transparency from other countries.

I don't see people calling for transparency from other countries.
LOL how do you know what I do. We are on the CITME board which was originally set up to discuss the Israel/ Gaza conflict no one needs to mention every other country when talking about them that's beyond ridiculous.

I think we are talking at crossed purposes anyway. You commented
Where are all the usual comments about not trusting internal investigations
You are referring to an investigation by Spanish police into their treatment of their own citizens. The Israeli investigations that people comment on are investigations into war crimes perpetuated by the IDF on Palestinians. It's very different and you would expect transparency and prosecution. Spanish citizens have a legal pathway they can follow if they're unhappy with the investigation no such framework in place for Palestinians.

BelleHathor · Today 14:59

rainingsnoring · Today 12:56

Exactly. For some, it's one rule for one group and an entirely different set of rules for those that they don't feel an affiliation for, whether they are 'left wing fuckwits' or Muslims or brown people or whatever. That 'none so blind...' phrase springs to mind again.

You are dealing with "True Believers"™ that's what Rich Baris (at approx. 56 minutes) said during his interview with Tucker about people who are constantly throwing out false accusations, he details being called an antisemite after his polling showed that Americans do not support Foreign Aid for any countries including Israel. Rich said he then realised that they actually do believe that anyone that opposes Israel is an antisemite.

It's a combination of supremacism and the misguided view that "shaming" people will get them to conform. The opposite is happening, people see the dismissive condescending language and turn away, with young men running into the arms of actual antisemites like the Hitler loving Nick Fuentes who is waiting to happily red pill new groypers and they don't give a fuck what they're called. Even Charlie Kirk was bullied and called an antisemite before he was murdered.

It's also selective outrage, Trump used the phrase the "Jewish Lobby" during the White House Hannukah dinner in December 2025, where was the backlash?

"I will say, you know, if you go back 10, 12, 15 years ago at the most, the strongest lobby in Washington was the Jewish lobby. It was Israel. That's no longer true. You have to be very careful."

and

"my father would tell me the most powerful lobby that there is in this country is the Jewish lobby. It's the Israeli lobby. It's not that way anymore. You have a lot of people in your way. You have a lot of people that uh don't want to help Israel. You have a lot of people in Congress that don't like Israel.#2

After the Massie defeat there was a lot of crowing from the Pro Israel contingent basically saying look what happens if you go against us. This particular video that went viral last week, it being discussed on comedian (a joke because people are always trying to put him down for just being a comedian) Dave Smiths podcast

"John Podhoretz is Writing the Argument for Antisemites"

Podhoretz: "I think it is a good thing if Massie and the people like him and others believe that if you cross, if you cross the line into anti-Semitism. If you cross the Jews, Jews are going to use the power that we have openly to go for you. This is an existential issue for Jews.

And the Jews who explicitly give money because they want to make it clear to
anti-Semitic candidates that they are going to have to go through a buzzsaw
and that they are not going to simply waltz in and be you know be if they're
treated with kid gloves by the New York Times, we are double time going to do
what we can to expose who they are to find out what we can find out about them
that will harm them and that we will do what we can to prevent them from taking
office."

Dave Smith: " He's literally sitting here going, "Well, listen, here's what we do is we, we use Jewish money to unseat a democratically elected popular congressman. We use Jewish money to steal a congress seat for you." Like,
"Yeah, I don't know where this how this could possibly backfire."

"...essentially you're proving their point or at least making it look like their point is proven. And so when you see that you go the the word that I was jumping on there is that he go he said this is existential for Jews. And I don't know. I mean, I guess that's the issue there is that no, it's really not. Like this is this is where you really get into like some like paranoia. Like like and I mean like the psychological diagnosis paranoia.

Like this is you're making a claim here that this is an existential threat to Jews.
And the claim is that if Thomas Massie kept his seat in Kentucky, like like Rob, we have an experiment of this. Like Thomas Massie has been in Congress for
many years. He's won re-election many times. You're telling me if he had been
re-elected this year, there is an existential threat to Jews in America?

Like it's it's so far removed from reality. But when you get yourself into that
mindset like in other words .... The issue is that this is completely untethered from reality. It is just not true at all. "

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Twiglets1 · Today 15:09

Boolabus · Today 14:59

I don't see people calling for transparency from other countries.
LOL how do you know what I do. We are on the CITME board which was originally set up to discuss the Israel/ Gaza conflict no one needs to mention every other country when talking about them that's beyond ridiculous.

I think we are talking at crossed purposes anyway. You commented
Where are all the usual comments about not trusting internal investigations
You are referring to an investigation by Spanish police into their treatment of their own citizens. The Israeli investigations that people comment on are investigations into war crimes perpetuated by the IDF on Palestinians. It's very different and you would expect transparency and prosecution. Spanish citizens have a legal pathway they can follow if they're unhappy with the investigation no such framework in place for Palestinians.

I didn't name you specifically, I said I don't see people calling for transparency from other countries and it's true - it's always Israel, Israel, Israel people focus on.

As with independent journalists, why do people only care about Israel not allowing independent journalists in, not ever Iran?

Thought you might have some insight but anyone is welcome to attempt an answer.

Twiglets1 · Today 15:12

noblegiraffe · Today 13:17

As if there isn’t any international attention on Israel right now.

I know that the people currently conducting complex negotiations will not be delighted by the bunch of amateur do-gooders sailing into the mix, chucking food in the sea and getting themselves captured.

It doesn't help negotiations.

Then again, you and I both presumably want the negotiations to go well and to have a period of calm in the middle East.

I'm not convinced everyone does want that.

Stirabout · Today 15:46

‘ I know that the people currently conducting complex negotiations will not be delighted by the bunch of amateur do-gooders sailing into the mix, chucking food in the sea and getting themselves captured’

No. You know Nothing of the sort.

Iran is in the middle of ceasefire negotiations and they support the Flotillas

‘ Tehran, IRNA – Foreign Ministry spokesperson Esmaeil Baqaei has condemned Israel’s attack on the international Sumud humanitarian convoy, calling it an act of maritime piracy and terrorism.

In a statement on Thursday, Baqaei emphasized the humanitarian nature of the Sumud Flotilla, describing it as an international initiative composed of participants from dozens of countries, all united in their support for the Palestinian cause.

The explicit goal of the flotilla is to break the unlawful siege of Gaza and deliver urgently needed aid to its civilian population,
he added.
“The attack on the Sumud convoy is not merely an assault on a relief mission; it is a blow to the awakened conscience of humanity and to our common human values,” the spokesperson added.

Baqaei underscored the responsibility of the international community, the United Nations, and all governments to condemn the ongoing lawlessness of the Zionist regime and hold the occupiers accountable.

He also called for comprehensive support for the humanitarian campaign assisting the people of Gaza and for the immediate release of the captives.

Boolabus · Today 15:51

Twiglets1 · Today 15:09

I didn't name you specifically, I said I don't see people calling for transparency from other countries and it's true - it's always Israel, Israel, Israel people focus on.

As with independent journalists, why do people only care about Israel not allowing independent journalists in, not ever Iran?

Thought you might have some insight but anyone is welcome to attempt an answer.

I didn't name you specifically, I said I don't see people calling for transparency from other countries
Well then you're not paying attention. The idea that it's only Israel people look for transparency and investigations into state institutions conduct is laughable.

and it's true - it's always Israel, Israel, Israel people focus on.
On here, this thread yes. Outside of this? no it's not true it's your perception which is wrong.

As with independent journalists, why do people only care about Israel not allowing independent journalists in,
Do they? They look for it wherever it is blocked

not ever Iran?
Why do you keep mentioning Iran? The international community is very aware of what Iran is and consistently highlights it's blackouts and lack of access as with North Korea and so on. People want international journalists to have access to Gaza an occupied territory to bear witness to what is happening there. Why have you an issue with people calling for that? Your whataboutery is getting tiresome. Going round in circles. Rather than criticising people for calling something out why not argue why they're wrong in looking for it, maybe then a debate can get somewhere. But, look over there they're doing it too, is not a position worth debating with.

noblegiraffe · Today 16:12

BelleHathor · Today 14:59

You are dealing with "True Believers"™ that's what Rich Baris (at approx. 56 minutes) said during his interview with Tucker about people who are constantly throwing out false accusations, he details being called an antisemite after his polling showed that Americans do not support Foreign Aid for any countries including Israel. Rich said he then realised that they actually do believe that anyone that opposes Israel is an antisemite.

It's a combination of supremacism and the misguided view that "shaming" people will get them to conform. The opposite is happening, people see the dismissive condescending language and turn away, with young men running into the arms of actual antisemites like the Hitler loving Nick Fuentes who is waiting to happily red pill new groypers and they don't give a fuck what they're called. Even Charlie Kirk was bullied and called an antisemite before he was murdered.

It's also selective outrage, Trump used the phrase the "Jewish Lobby" during the White House Hannukah dinner in December 2025, where was the backlash?

"I will say, you know, if you go back 10, 12, 15 years ago at the most, the strongest lobby in Washington was the Jewish lobby. It was Israel. That's no longer true. You have to be very careful."

and

"my father would tell me the most powerful lobby that there is in this country is the Jewish lobby. It's the Israeli lobby. It's not that way anymore. You have a lot of people in your way. You have a lot of people that uh don't want to help Israel. You have a lot of people in Congress that don't like Israel.#2

After the Massie defeat there was a lot of crowing from the Pro Israel contingent basically saying look what happens if you go against us. This particular video that went viral last week, it being discussed on comedian (a joke because people are always trying to put him down for just being a comedian) Dave Smiths podcast

"John Podhoretz is Writing the Argument for Antisemites"

Podhoretz: "I think it is a good thing if Massie and the people like him and others believe that if you cross, if you cross the line into anti-Semitism. If you cross the Jews, Jews are going to use the power that we have openly to go for you. This is an existential issue for Jews.

And the Jews who explicitly give money because they want to make it clear to
anti-Semitic candidates that they are going to have to go through a buzzsaw
and that they are not going to simply waltz in and be you know be if they're
treated with kid gloves by the New York Times, we are double time going to do
what we can to expose who they are to find out what we can find out about them
that will harm them and that we will do what we can to prevent them from taking
office."

Dave Smith: " He's literally sitting here going, "Well, listen, here's what we do is we, we use Jewish money to unseat a democratically elected popular congressman. We use Jewish money to steal a congress seat for you." Like,
"Yeah, I don't know where this how this could possibly backfire."

"...essentially you're proving their point or at least making it look like their point is proven. And so when you see that you go the the word that I was jumping on there is that he go he said this is existential for Jews. And I don't know. I mean, I guess that's the issue there is that no, it's really not. Like this is this is where you really get into like some like paranoia. Like like and I mean like the psychological diagnosis paranoia.

Like this is you're making a claim here that this is an existential threat to Jews.
And the claim is that if Thomas Massie kept his seat in Kentucky, like like Rob, we have an experiment of this. Like Thomas Massie has been in Congress for
many years. He's won re-election many times. You're telling me if he had been
re-elected this year, there is an existential threat to Jews in America?

Like it's it's so far removed from reality. But when you get yourself into that
mindset like in other words .... The issue is that this is completely untethered from reality. It is just not true at all. "

Your argument falls at the first paragraph because I don't support Israel. It's odd how people assume that someone challenging antisemitism must be a supporter of Israel. It's a bit of a disappointing assumption tbh.

Also, I am extremely tickled by the idea that someone who presumably does not rate Trump and probably considers him to be a racist scumbag using 'Trump said Jewish Lobby' as proof that it is not antisemitic. Neo Nazis also used it - is that proof that it's not antisemitic?

One other observation: we are not in the US.

noblegiraffe · Today 16:13

Stirabout · Today 15:46

‘ I know that the people currently conducting complex negotiations will not be delighted by the bunch of amateur do-gooders sailing into the mix, chucking food in the sea and getting themselves captured’

No. You know Nothing of the sort.

Iran is in the middle of ceasefire negotiations and they support the Flotillas

‘ Tehran, IRNA – Foreign Ministry spokesperson Esmaeil Baqaei has condemned Israel’s attack on the international Sumud humanitarian convoy, calling it an act of maritime piracy and terrorism.

In a statement on Thursday, Baqaei emphasized the humanitarian nature of the Sumud Flotilla, describing it as an international initiative composed of participants from dozens of countries, all united in their support for the Palestinian cause.

The explicit goal of the flotilla is to break the unlawful siege of Gaza and deliver urgently needed aid to its civilian population,
he added.
“The attack on the Sumud convoy is not merely an assault on a relief mission; it is a blow to the awakened conscience of humanity and to our common human values,” the spokesperson added.

Baqaei underscored the responsibility of the international community, the United Nations, and all governments to condemn the ongoing lawlessness of the Zionist regime and hold the occupiers accountable.

He also called for comprehensive support for the humanitarian campaign assisting the people of Gaza and for the immediate release of the captives.

Why are you quoting Iranian propaganda?

Twiglets1 · Today 16:15

Boolabus · Today 15:51

I didn't name you specifically, I said I don't see people calling for transparency from other countries
Well then you're not paying attention. The idea that it's only Israel people look for transparency and investigations into state institutions conduct is laughable.

and it's true - it's always Israel, Israel, Israel people focus on.
On here, this thread yes. Outside of this? no it's not true it's your perception which is wrong.

As with independent journalists, why do people only care about Israel not allowing independent journalists in,
Do they? They look for it wherever it is blocked

not ever Iran?
Why do you keep mentioning Iran? The international community is very aware of what Iran is and consistently highlights it's blackouts and lack of access as with North Korea and so on. People want international journalists to have access to Gaza an occupied territory to bear witness to what is happening there. Why have you an issue with people calling for that? Your whataboutery is getting tiresome. Going round in circles. Rather than criticising people for calling something out why not argue why they're wrong in looking for it, maybe then a debate can get somewhere. But, look over there they're doing it too, is not a position worth debating with.

I wasn’t talking about just on this thread but if you’re just going to deny what is easily observable then there’s no point.

noblegiraffe · Today 16:17

Twiglets1 · Today 15:12

It doesn't help negotiations.

Then again, you and I both presumably want the negotiations to go well and to have a period of calm in the middle East.

I'm not convinced everyone does want that.

I'm a bit alarmed that some might want them to go well for Iran.

Twiglets1 · Today 16:31

noblegiraffe · Today 16:17

I'm a bit alarmed that some might want them to go well for Iran.

Some seem to want them to go badly for Trump more than anything else 🤷🏼‍♀️

BelleHathor · Today 16:38

The post wasn't for you Noble, it was for Rainsnoring who is far more well read and aware of what is happening right now both in the US and over here in the UK.

Continue making your assumptions and I will continue to watch the blowback manifest itself. Influencers like Calvin Robinson are openly admitting to checking a persons background and asking the panellist (a potential Reform councillor) whether they're Jewish to determine their motives regarding immigration, with Calvin being supported by his followers.

noblegiraffe · Today 16:43

BelleHathor · Today 16:38

The post wasn't for you Noble, it was for Rainsnoring who is far more well read and aware of what is happening right now both in the US and over here in the UK.

Continue making your assumptions and I will continue to watch the blowback manifest itself. Influencers like Calvin Robinson are openly admitting to checking a persons background and asking the panellist (a potential Reform councillor) whether they're Jewish to determine their motives regarding immigration, with Calvin being supported by his followers.

Edited

Do you think rainsnoring will be persuaded that it's ok to go on about the Jewish Lobby now that she has been reassured that Trump has used it?

Influencers like Calvin Robinson are openly admitting to checking a persons background

Or Calvin Robinson? Jeez are you trying to rope in the worst possible people?

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