Reconstruction of Gaza - realistic?

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj41y42qxq8o

I think the problem with the below is the mammoth coast and the problem of who pays. To build a city of the size of Birmingham from scratch including public infrastructure to a sufficient standard using non slave Labour is going to be astronomical. Who pays? All the Arab states (although some with concentrated extreme wealth) have their own domestic pressures without stumping up hundreds of billions to produce a new sixth state. There could be international loans but that would bring into question Gazan public debt and how loans could be repaid.

There is also the thorny question about how Gazans go about establishing legal ownership of land or whether they need to buy it again. It seems like a conveyincing nightmare. One solution would be to build identical properties and allocate them the to the populace as a whole but would Gazans want this form of communism in terms of property? If you do have a housing market how do establish a realistic economy to support it?

International aid is extremely stressed and certainly as a UK tax payer I would hope we wouldn't get to involved and as Gazan reconstruction is talked about we should be conscious of the levels of poverty in other regions of the world.

@Twiglets1You say nobody sane starts a war with a far more powerful foe and you are probably right. But history shows us that if you opress a group of people for long enough then they will resort to desperate tactics and behaviours which may be far from sane and far from moral.

Really? Plenty of people are oppressed horifically and don't resort to the sort of thing Hamas did on 7th October.

Really, Israeli prison guards have been raping inmates to death with objects, that is pretty horrific. Bodies that have been returned are mutilated and show signs of torture. People who have been released from Israeli prisons have had limbs amputated and have lost their sight due to torture. A huge number of these people were never charged with any crime.

In 1948, when this whole saga properly started, Israeli soldiers slaughtered and raped the people of Tantura. In the documentary Tantura, retured Israeli soldiers talked about their fellow soldiers chasing innocent people with flame throwers and incinerating them, raping a teenage girl and murdering her uncle who objected, detaining villagers in a room and then throwing a hand grenande into the room, lining up people and shooting them. But of course it all started on October 7 and Israeli’s have never done anything as bad as Hamas.

Putting aside the veracity of your claims Men abuse their power in every society we know of. That is a different point to justifying Hamas's barbarous behaviour as the oppressed rising up against the oppressor.

Wouldn’t you consider the behaviour of the oppressors highlighted by Koalakoko as ‘barbarous’? @SharonEllis

Over 70% of Gazans are now living under bits of cloth as the rain comes and winter looms. Alongside the evacuation of the illegal settlers in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, the conversation about rebuilding Gaza for the Gazans should realistically start with the provision of adequate shelter immediately. That would be a step towards reparation.

Who will do this?

It sounds like you’re saying oppressed people should just suck it up. And no I’m not condoning Oct 7th, before you start, I’m saying brutality begets brutality.
At least you’re admitting Palestinians are oppressed. I guess that’s something!

Just a reminder that supporting Hamas is illegal in this country. Just in case you're suggesting that 7 October was legitimate resistance.
The Palestinians in Gaza certainly were oppressed by Hamas and yet whenever resistance to Hamas is suggested on this board its met with derision. Go figure.

What do you think should happen to Hamas now?

Wow is that meant to be some sort of threat ? Quite possible for someone to think or even say that Hamas developed as a result of Israeli oppression without actively supporting their actions, very different to identify the causes of something without necessarily supporting the outcome.
or would you just like everyone to shut up and let Israel carry on breaching international law?

No need to make it personal @Everexpanding

Just because someone holds different opinions to yourself on certain issues that doesn’t mean they want others to shut up. That came into your mind & has never been implied by @SharonEllis that they want others to shut up.

Not sure what sort of threat I'm in a position to make, so no. I don't know how I would shut people up on here, and I'm not sure people in this discussion board have any power over Israel either way.

I think that’s an interesting question @Everexpanding.

Would you like to let Israel carry on breaching international law @SharonEllis?

Posters are allowed to suggest that Palestinians might well want to resist Israeli control and aggression, without you insinuating those posters are breaking the law.

Not, presumably in the Barbarous manner that Hamas did on 7 October, surely? I thought we were all agreed that 7 October was reprehensible? It was also very much against international law.

The question put to you @SharonEllis was regarding Israel’s continuous breaches of International Law?

I may have missed a post supporting what Hamas did on October 7th, I haven’t read every single post, but I would be surprised if someone has posted that. Were you referring to such a post? But generally supporting Palestinian resistance is certainly not illegal.

How dare you suggest that I support Hamas!

I specifically said I didn’t support Oct 7th.

I don’t support the kidnapping or torture or mistreatment of civilians! Which is precisely why I don’t support either the IDF or Hamas. I think you should retract your post. It sounds threatening and it’s really not on.

I think the instigators of Oct 7th should be trialled for war crimes as should members of the Israeli government and military who have called for ethnic cleansing and targeted civilians.

I think both sides should disarm through a phrased process and I think that the international community should ensure that a Palestinian state is adhered to.

I literally said in my post that I don’t condone Oct 7th. Of course it was horrific! Civilians are civilians and should not be targeted. This is the first rule of anything.
What I’m saying is brutality is a cycle of violence and the two sides will never see eye to eye without the international community stepping in and reaching a fair solution.

I think a fair solution is either a two state solution or one state that is democratic for all.

I think it’s so disturbing that despite me literally saying I don’t support October 7th you went on to imply that I did.

You shouldn’t throw false accusations about.

If you are calling for the disarming of Israel you are basically resigning yourself to the destruction of Israel and the majority of the Jews in the world. Its quite extraordinary to think that is ok.

As I said before I am not in a position to threaten anyone - what could I do to you? I don't even know who you are! 'Brutality begets brutality' is making excuses for Hamas though, even if you say you don't support them. There is no way anyone could think that 7 October was legitimate resistance. That's all that needs to be said. Once you start legitimating Hamas's behaviour you are on the road to legitimating Hamas itself.

It’s very threatening to imply someone is breaking the law.

Saying “brutality begets brutality” is not legitimising the brutality, it is stating a sad fact of life.

Again, what a hideously insulting thing to say. You don’t know me or my history with Jews or Israel. You are accusing me of anti-semitism and that is seriously offensive.

I believe that just as Israel has a right to exist in safety, so does Palestine and right now their biggest threat to Palestinians is Israel.

It is in my opinion the job of the international community to ensure the safety of both sovereign states or to oversee the transition from an apartheid state to an inclusive and democratic one.

It has happened before in other places and I hope that it can happen in Israel and Palestine. Peace for everyone, not just one side.

Its not insulting. Its just a fact. It Israel disarmed it would be overrun by people who wish to destroy it. The biggest threat to Palestinians in Gaza was Hamas, as demonstrated by the way they oppressed their own citizens for 20 years and then launched the 7 October attacks. Israel already is an independent democratic inclusive state. Under whose authority would the international community take it over? I can't see any basis in law or precedent that would make that acceptable. The middle Eastern countries need to take responsibility for the Palestinans. I wonder why they don't want to?