Trump's new Gaza Plan

[Twiglets1]

Return of the hostages and an Islamic Arab government: Inside Trump's new Gaza plan:

The Trump administration has reportedly put forward a peace plan which would eventually lead to a complete end to the war in Gaza, a Western source told the Lebanese media site Elnashra on Wednesday, only a day after US President Donald Trump met with the leaders of Muslim countries.

The plan reportedly includes a 20-day ceasefire followed by the return of the hostages. It is unclear in the report, however, how many of the 48 hostages would be returned at this stage of the deal.

Following the return of the abductees, an Arab administration made up of Islamic nations would take over the administration of the Palestinian enclave, according to Elnashra. During this time, a Palestinian government would reportedly be built without the infiltration of Hamas.

Other sources told the Lebanese paper that the Muslim leaders attending the meeting with Trump were supportive of the American president's proposal. Still, they were reportedly awaiting a response from Hamas and Israel to see if the proposal could be fruitful.

The meeting was held on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly in New York and included leaders from the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, Indonesia, and Pakistan.

www.jpost.com/israel-news/defense-news/article-868469

@1dayatatime
Can you show now us where UK government has condoned what is happening in Sudan by its military forces or happened in Yemen by Saudi Arabia?

Selling weapons is a dirty trade - I am not denying that. But the situations are not analogous.

I still remember Starmer not being able to criticise the initial blockade of Gaza by Israel on lbc radio - which included food, water and electricity until he had to clarify his remarks in the commons. It was an extremely difficulty and terrible situation post 7/10 - but what ensued in Gaza was clearly growing into a Humanitarian crisis. It has taken 2 years to reach a point of sufficient political pressure is finally being applied for there to be a permanent ceasefire deal to be proposed and accepted.

Hamas have to disband but not Israel?

Probably because hamas is a terrorist group who solely exist to kill jews and sometimes their own people. Israel is an actual country populated with millions of people, many of whom have found refuge in the only middle eastern country that they can live freely in. Wtf?

This is the real source of people's rejection of this plan. They would rather let more gazan people die than have israel continue to exist. There's a word for that.

Do tell what that word is?

If you’d read my post to the end you’d see I specifically said I didn’t think they should reject the plan. I said it was unfair to the Palestinians in the long term.

Also, your idea that Hamas is a terrorist group but Israel is not a terror state is just so astoundingly illogical. You can see that Gaza is flattened to the ground. You can see that since October 7th Israel has killed at least 60 Palestinians for every Israeli killed by Hamas.

And if you cared to look it up you’d see that the number of Palestinians killed since 1948 far surpasses the number of Israelis. Yet you still think it is Hamas who are the only terrorists.

Look up the organisation Breaking the Silence, an organisation of ex-IDF soldiers who detail the tactics they were told to use to keep the Palestinians in a state of fear and tell me that’s not terror.

Both Palestinians and Israelis deserve to live in peace without fear from their neighbouring country but Palestinians have far more to fear from their much more powerful neighbour who is supported one of the biggest militaries in the world than vice versa.

This is absolute nonsense and I don't know why people trot this stuff out daily, only to be refuted every time. Hamas is a proscribed terrorist organisation whose aim is to destroy Israel and kill Jews and I think perhaps you don't really understand what terrorism. You know full well why the destruction is so great in Gaza and not Israel and why far more Palestinians have died than Israelis.

Hamas has indicated that it may respond to the peace plan today after Trump said the group had “three or four days” to give an answer or “pay in hell”.

“We’re just waiting for Hamas,” the American leader had said on Tuesday. “Hamas is either going to be doing it or not, and if it’s not, it’s going to be a very sad end.”

He warned: “If they reject the offer, Israel will do what it needs to do. There is not much room for negotiation with Hamas.”

A source close to the talks told CBS News that Hamas was leaning towards accepting the deal and that it would give its answer to Egyptian and Qatari mediators as early as Wednesday.

Would it be more accurate to say that Israel is a democracy that has unfortunately been led by a small group politicians for whom there are warrants for war crimes?

You can look up the definition of state terrorism - it is a recognised thing.

The BBC & other sources have now reported the plan in full (reposted in full for those who like to read details):

1. Gaza will be a deradicalised terror-free zone that does not pose a threat to its neighbours.
2. Gaza will be redeveloped for the benefit of the people of Gaza, who have suffered more than enough.
3. If both sides agree to this proposal, the war will immediately end. Israeli forces will withdraw to the agreed upon line to prepare for a hostage release. During this time, all military operations, including aerial and artillery bombardment, will be suspended, and battle lines will remain frozen until conditions are met for the complete staged withdrawal.
4. Within 72 hours of Israel publicly accepting this agreement, all hostages, alive and deceased, will be returned.
5. Once all hostages are released, Israel will release 250 life sentence prisoners plus 1,700 Gazans who were detained after 7 October 2023, including all women and children detained in that context. For every Israeli hostage whose remains are released, Israel will release the remains of 15 deceased Gazans.
6. Once all hostages are returned, Hamas members who commit to peaceful co-existence and to decommission their weapons will be given amnesty. Members of Hamas who wish to leave Gaza will be provided safe passage to receiving countries.
7. Upon acceptance of this agreement, full aid will be immediately sent into the Gaza Strip. At a minimum, aid quantities will be consistent with what was included in the 19 January 2025 agreement regarding humanitarian aid, including rehabilitation of infrastructure (water, electricity, sewage), rehabilitation of hospitals and bakeries, and entry of necessary equipment to remove rubble and open roads.
8. Entry of distribution and aid in the Gaza Strip will proceed without interference from the two parties through the United Nations and its agencies, and the Red Crescent, in addition to other international institutions not associated in any manner with either party. Opening the Rafah crossing in both directions will be subject to the same mechanism implemented under 19 January 2025 agreement.
9. Gaza will be governed under the temporary transitional governance of a technocratic, apolitical Palestinian committee, responsible for delivering the day-to-day running of public services and municipalities for the people in Gaza. This committee will be made up of qualified Palestinians and international experts, with oversight and supervision by a new international transitional body, the "Board of Peace," which will be headed and chaired by President Donald J. Trump, with other members and heads of state to be announced, including Former Prime Minister Tony Blair. This body will set the framework and handle the funding for the redevelopment of Gaza until such time as the Palestinian Authority has completed its reform programme, as outlined in various proposals, including President Trump's peace plan in 2020 and the Saudi-French proposal, and can securely and effectively take back control of Gaza. This body will call on best international standards to create modern and efficient governance that serves the people of Gaza and is conducive to attracting investment.

10. A Trump economic development plan to rebuild and energise Gaza will be created by convening a panel of experts who have helped birth some of the thriving modern miracle cities in the Middle East. Many thoughtful investment proposals and exciting development ideas have been crafted by well-meaning international groups, and will be considered to synthesize the security and governance frameworks to attract and facilitate these investments that will create jobs, opportunity, and hope for future Gaza.
11. A special economic zone will be established with preferred tariff and access rates to be negotiated with participating countries.
12. No one will be forced to leave Gaza, and those who wish to leave will be free to do so and free to return. We will encourage people to stay and offer them the opportunity to build a better Gaza.
13. Hamas and other factions agree to not have any role in the governance of Gaza, directly, indirectly, or in any form. All military, terror, and offensive infrastructure, including tunnels and weapon production facilities, will be destroyed and not rebuilt. There will be a process of demilitarisation of Gaza under the supervision of independent monitors, which will include placing weapons permanently beyond use through an agreed process of decommissioning, and supported by an internationally funded buy back and reintegration programme all verified by the independent monitors. New Gaza will be fully committed to building a prosperous economy and to peaceful coexistence with their neighbours.
14. A guarantee will be provided by regional partners to ensure that Hamas, and the factions, comply with their obligations and that New Gaza poses no threat to its neighbours or its people.
15. The United States will work with Arab and international partners to develop a temporary International Stabilisation Force (ISF) to immediately deploy in Gaza. The ISF will train and provide support to vetted Palestinian police forces in Gaza, and will consult with Jordan and Egypt who have extensive experience in this field. This force will be the long-term internal security solution. The ISF will work with Israel and Egypt to help secure border areas, along with newly trained Palestinian police forces. It is critical to prevent munitions from entering Gaza and to facilitate the rapid and secure flow of goods to rebuild and revitalize Gaza. A deconfliction mechanism will be agreed upon by the parties.
16. Israel will not occupy or annex Gaza. As the ISF establishes control and stability, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) will withdraw based on standards, milestones, and timeframes linked to demilitarization that will be agreed upon between the IDF, ISF, the guarantors, and the United States, with the objective of a secure Gaza that no longer poses a threat to Israel, Egypt, or its citizens. Practically, the IDF will progressively hand over the Gaza territory it occupies to the ISF according to an agreement they will make with the transitional authority until they are withdrawn completely from Gaza, save for a security perimeter presence that will remain until Gaza is properly secure from any resurgent terror threat.
17. In the event Hamas delays or rejects this proposal, the above, including the scaled-up aid operation, will proceed in the terror-free areas handed over from the IDF to the ISF.
18. An interfaith dialogue process will be established based on the values of tolerance and peaceful co-existence to try and change mindsets and narratives of Palestinians and Israelis by emphasizing the benefits that can be derived from peace.
19. While Gaza re-development advances and when the PA reform programme is faithfully carried out, the conditions may finally be in place for a credible pathway to Palestinian self-determination and statehood, which we recognise as the aspiration of the Palestinian people.
20. The United States will establish a dialogue between Israel and the Palestinians to agree on a political horizon for peaceful and prosperous co-existence.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c70155nked7o

Obviously it is factually correct that Israel is a democracy. There is a warrant for Netanyahu who currently leads Israel. The other warrant is for Gallant who I don't think currently leads anything. Israel is not lead by a group of people for whom there are warrants.

Sorry to repeat myself, but having see the detail above from @Twiglets1 , I just have to, with extra exclamation marks...
I cant believe anyone here seriously thinks Hamas will agree to peace in any shape or form!!!!!

They have had a chance for 2 state soln many times since the Ottoman Empire was disbanded, Israel have almost given up asking, but Hamas turn it down for 2 main reasons:
1.They have to define their borders, and they want the whole of Israel so wont accept less ( from the River to the sea).

2.They will have to step down, giving up power and allow a proper decent government that actually cares for its people and spends the billions in aid from the rest of the world sensibly, instead of on bombs, terrorism and ..themselves.

Israel is led by people (rightly) accused of war crimes and also by extremists (right wing) who have encouraged and financed terrorism in the WB and ethnic cleansing in Gaza. Terrorism is literally government policy (eg E1 settlement or the IDF supervising settler violence) They may not be war criminals but they are incredibly dangerous people and need to go if there is any change of actual peace for Palestinians.

I may be naïve but am really hoping that they do accept it. My opinion is that it is different this time because so many other countries have come out in support of this plan. Including countries that have traditionally supported Hamas like Qatar & Turkey.

If Hamas choose to continue, who can they rely on to support them? Possibly Iran but they are keeping quiet.

They will be isolated if they are the ones to turn it down and Trump has made it crystal clear what will happen if they do.

I really hope you are right @Twiglets1 . If anything good could come from this whole nightmare for Palestinians and Israelis, it would be real peace. The frustrating thing is that the factions on both sides, stopping peace and creating chaos are both religion/ideology driven. ie,Hamas and Otzma Yehudit party. These people just dont care about peace or their people. You can barely communicate with them.

I’m sorry, but the notion that pressure put on UK parliamentarians has had any impact on this deal is laughable. The marches and throwing of avocados on the floor in Waitrose has done diddly squat.

Do you think Starmer is too pro-Israel? He’s the leader who just rewarded Hamas for being terrorists. Labour can barely remember to mention Hamas while they’re haranguing Israel for their seemingly unilateral attacks on Gaza. Listening to them you’d think Oct 7 didn’t happen, just Israel out there blasting bombs at innocents.

All Labour have down is mew about a two state solution while completely ignoring Hamas saying they don’t want one and that they’ll keep doing Oct 7 style attacks!

Some ally we turned out to be.

I also think/hope this time is different because Arab state, especially Qatar, support this deal.

Hamas was never going to agree to anything other than “no Israel or death” so they had to be manoeuvred into it. They are still operating, but their numbers and leadership have been severely depleted. Remember, more countries were meant to be involved in Oct 7 but they didn’t step up when needed. Those same countries have all sustained drastic loses at the hands of Israel so Hamas doesn’t have the support needed to keep pushing for all it’s demands.

We’re two years in so I think Qatar is fed up of having to deal with this. Hosting Hamas leadership was one thing, but when attacks happen on their soil that’s a whole different issue. I think they’ve been happy to let them do their thing and act as the calming influence but they’re done now. All of the nations involved in this need to be able to trade/deal with and we don’t know what has been agreed or threatened in the background. Hamas MO is bullets and RPGs, Qatar operates with billion dollar deals they won’t want to lose.

Hamas has been manoeuvred into a position where they’ve basically been given an “agree or die” choice. Qatar has significant influence and with all the other countries that signed that statement, Hamas’ support is minimal. It’s like a drunk bloke in a pub brawl shouting his mates to join in and they’re all stood around looking at the ground not moving.

They’ll try some last minute re-negotiation bullcr*p, have a bit of a tantrum then agree. If they decode to fire rockets in a couple of days, they’re history. They need to be able to save face then scuttle away. My main concern is that they kill more of the hostages first which they will of course blame on Israel.

Agree @Lolapusht that Hamas may kill some of the remaining hostages in a last temper tantrum. Sorry if that is triggering to anyone reading this.

Obviously I very much hope that is not the case.

Yes @Lolapusht there should be more speaking of allies. The pro=Hamas Brits dont seem to realise Israel is our only true ally in a sea of hostile islamic countries. Israels data and espionage meant the west could recover from 9/11 and be ready for the next extremist attack. If that vanishes theres nothing keeping those factions from causing more trouble to the West.

A lot of us don't want to be the ally of Israel because of their repeated breaches of international law, commission of war crimes and genocide.

This is an incredible interview and it shows how the entire population of Gaza needs to be de-radicalised, it's not just about Hamas disarming. This is what Israel is up against

There was a girl called Wafa who lived in Gaza, aged 5 or 6 she gave herself, according to the video, extensive burns by pouring a pot of boiling water over herself, or a gas cooker blew up according to the Wikipedia article. She was taken to Israel where she underwent about 5 years of treatment in an Israeli hospital.

Due to having to travel back and forth to Israel to receive medical treatment she had a pass to travel freely to and from Gaza. Because of this she was recruited as a suicide bomber and one of her targets was the hospital in Israel that had treated her burns.

She was intercepted at the border and jailed. Later on she was released as part of a hostage exchange and upon returning to Gaza she told children waiting to greet her that she hoped some of them became martyrs.

It's a sick culture.

Video interview with a journalist that covered the story

Wikipedia article

That's your personal view which you are obviously entitled to.

But "allies" in this sense are diplomatic and between countries not individuals.

Countries like the UK can and do criticise Israel and they can criticise us in return. Nevertheless, we're still allies.

Exactly. We owe Israel a great deal

That is really sick. So radicalised that she even wanted to kill those that helped her. That level of radicalisation will take decades to unpick. No wonder surrounding countries are wary of taking in Palestinians. Jordan had its fingers burnt that way too. Who invites the wolf into the chicken coop.

Send the flotilla lot into gaza once the war ends and let them unpick it. Give them something to do.

Relevant to this thread reported yesterday

Pakistani minister says published Gaza peace plan different to what was agreed
"This is not our document."
That's what Pakistan's foreign minister reportedly had to say about Donald Trump's peace plan.
According to the Turkish site Anadolu Ajansi, Ishaq Dar said the plan presented in the White House was different to the one his nation had agreed on.

That's several countries now which say the deal they agreed was not the one that Trump announced. It looks like the usual Trump dirty tactics.

Whether it was a deliberate ploy to get them on side, or the deal substantially changed when Netenyahu had input and the USA didn't share this, who knows. Either way, that's unacceptable in any sort of negotiation.

Leaked details of the provisional plan agreed by Arab leaders was posted on page 2 of this thread before the press conference. The copy Trump released at his press conference was slightly different but not substantially. The only big difference I can see is that the updated version ( 20 clauses not 21) omits the part about Israel promising not to attack Qatar in future. Maybe because Netanyahu was made to commit to this in a very public apology to Qatar instead.

Some Arab/Muslim leaders are probably getting a lot of stick now from their citizens re agreeing to the plan but they all endorsed it after the press conference when full details of the 20 points were published.

I would take it with a large pinch of salt that they agreed to something substantially different unless proof is provided.

Those 21 points were just a summary behind that was a far more complicated document, which I understand was about 20 or 21 pages long. I know the Guardian saw it, as did Haaretz (there's quite a lot of content about commercially viable returns for investors, of which Kushner will almost invariably be one).

Obviously given those documents not publicly available, we can't say what hasn't has not been changed. We can't say what has and has not been changed I'm not sure why you are trusting Trump and Netenyahu, who have a very relaxed attitude of truth, as opposed to the increasing numbers of other countries that are saying that the text has changed. As the saying goes, the devil is in the detail, and it's the detail we don't have.

From the excerpts I've read that have been punished, compared with what Trump was announcing, one of the biggest differences is composition of the 'board of peace' that was going to have more Palestinian involvement. There is no suggestion of Trump being the Chair. His more recent comments about how he will 'reign over Gaza' should set alarm bells ringing in everyone. It effectively being a Trump run actual dictatorship clearly wasn't part of the plan!

It's a disgraceful way of running a so-called negotiation.