Israel committing genocide in Gaza, world’s top scholars on the crime say

[Everexpanding]

An overwhelming majority of members of the world’s leading genocide scholars’ association have backed a resolution stating that Israel’s actions in Gaza meet the legal definition of the crime.
Eighty-six per cent of those who voted in the 500-member International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS) supported the motion. The resolution states that “Israel’s policies and actions in Gaza meet the legal definition of genocide in article II of the United Nations convention for the prevention and punishment of the crime of genocide (1948).”

www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/01/israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza-worlds-top-scholars-on-the-say

Completely missed the point, which, ironically, requires nuance.

Why would it be impossible to change my mind?

I didn’t have an opinion on Israel/Palestine until Oct 7. When I saw the response was Free Palestine I wondered WTF was going on started doing some reading.

Of course war crimes have been committed. Show me a war where they haven’t. If the IDF are deliberately targeting children then that is abhorrent and those involved need to be tried and convicted. Is every member of the IDF doing it? Is there an official order? This is why yes/no doesn’t work! Do I like Marmite? No. Do I like doughnuts? Yes. Do I think the IDF deliberately targets children? I don’t know but I’m open to reading a variety of sources then forming my own opinions given the authenticity, veracity and believability of those sources.

Gave up on listening to Maitliss & Sopel years ago given their intractable stance on certain subjects. Not interested on “journalists” who aren’t really impartial/open to opposing viewpoints.

It’s not processing complex information if it’s just justifying your own cognitive dissonance

Exactly my point. You’re not open to an opinion other than your own. You’re not looking for a varied response, you’re looking for voices that confirm your own opinions.

You can watch this but there’s no point in showing you evidence, because you will dismiss it/ not bother/ think it’s fake/ not trusted/ ‘what about’ it etc

Same here. I had always vaguely and rather lazily thought "Israel bad/poor Palestinians", but was so shocked by the jeering antisemitism on MN and on the streets of the UK after 7/10 that I started looking into it more closely. It probably helps that I don't watch TV or have an X/Insta account to amplify Hamas's DARVO tactics.

The sound bites was where I started immediately after Oct 7.

I heard open-air prison/concnetration camp/refugee camps and thought “That is bad. Why is Israel making that happen”. So I did what we’re always told and started googling. I found Imshin. Those refugee camps looked like any other built urban area in Gaza. That open-air prison had a Mercedes garage. People went to Turkey/Dubai etc on holiday from that concentration camp. It didn’t add up. Israel occupied Gaza? Oh, they left in 2005 and they left behind a fully functioning greenhouse & agricultural system that was immediately trashed so food couldn’t be grown. Oh, there was a complete network of water pipes but they were dug up to make mortars. Oh…

I don’t mind having discussion with people but it’s nigh on impossible. This isn’t a black & white subject. There’s infinite shades of grey but you’re not allowed to express any of them else you are a genocide denier. How does that sort of language help??

But @Lolapusht has explained why s/he doesn't consider it a genocide (and I agree). Some people do think it's a genocide, obviously.

You’re not open to an opinion other than your own.
Pot, kettle, black...? You won't rest until we say "OK, so many people think it's a genocide that they must be right."

You've put your finger on it.

Dismissing such a coherent, comprehensive explanation of someone's personal views outright as "justifying cognitive dissonance" shows an absolute inability to process complex information, as well as refusal to tolerate any other viewpoint than your own facile interpretation.

Not really.
The entire post was just a monologue of how she was right all along, using convoluted ideas disguised as facts.
If you like, I can dismantle each one of the points. But equally I don’t need to, because there are scores of independent bodies, scholars, think tanks, humanitarian organisations, which completely contradict her claims.
A massive response was not justified or necessary after october 7th. Because violence is not the answer, violences begets violence and you are perpetuating a war that’s now created more terrorists and ensured this war will carry on for several of our next generations to mop up.
Targeting civilian infrastructure- see the myriad of legal scholars who have argued Israel is in violation of international law.
Journalists are not being allowed in, because we just don’t want the world knowing what’s going on.

As a Jew, I’m uncomfortable criticising Israel of course.
But it has to be done and you have to step outside your echo chamber.

And yes we are able to digest complex information, it’s the most difficult thing to do to admit you are actually on the wrong side of history.

https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2024/04/25/slanders-against-our-movements-are-a-distraction/

She was asked a question, she answered with her views and explained how she came to them. Monologue is the only way to do it on MN as live chat is not an option. To characterise someone explaining their view as just explaining why they are right is mean spirited, I think.

If violence is not the answer I'd be very interested in how you think Israel should have responded to Hamas's genocidal attack which they made clear they were ready to repeat.

But this is contradictory. It talks about genocide but also talks about the displacement of Palestinians. The displacement is to stop them being killed in the targeted bombings. How can Israel both be attempting a genocide and trying to remove the population it is trying to genocide from the places that they might be killed?

I will pay attention to allegations like this when I see a comprehensive report which details the actions Hamas has taken and how Israel has responded to them. Because this is a war, and Israel is responding to the active choices that Hamas are making throughout the war, But the role of Hamas is utterly absent from reports like this. You can't arrive at a reasoned assessment without looking at the action of both players. Nor can you arrive at a reasoned assessment without looking at the situation Israel is in. This is not a Israel-Palestine conflict. This is a war of multiple countries in the Middle East, who are trying to destroy Israel.

Not this. And if you think this is justified shame on you.
This is out of hand. Indiscriminate bombing. 2000lb bombs on refugee camps. ‘target practice’ on children. ‘No uninvolved citizens’. Settlers ready to move in to Gaza. Confiscating baby formula at checkpoints. Withholding aid.

And do you not think killing more people creates more terrorists? What exactly is going to happen to the kids who just watched their families burn alive?

I’ve heard people call Arabs cockroaches, rats, bacteria. Call someone vermin and you’re ready to exterminate them. And you think that’s a minority view?
Enough is enough.

No you will not. Don’t kid yourself. Even when the worlds most trusted organisations release reports or claim things that contradict your narrative they’re just dismissed as antisemitic.

I asked you what non violent response you thought would have been effective against Hamas's genocidal attack. You chose to respond with assumptions, a random scattering of examples of bad things, and abuse. But no answer to the question.

'Not this' is too easy.

A massive response was not justified or necessary after october 7th. Because violence is not the answer, violences begets violence @hkathy

So what is the answer? This is not an Israel-Palestine war. Those who categorise it like that, does so as it portrays Israel in a poor light. This is a regional war, of countries and factions intend on the complete destruction of Israel. That is why Israel is fighting for its survival on multiple fronts.

Israel tried peace. It forcibly removed its citizens from Gaza in 2005. It has since tolerated repeated terrorist attacks from Hamas without escalating to a war. Hamas received billions in Aid but instead of using that to build a successful thriving Gaza, and proving it could live in peace and increasing prosperity alongside Israel (and surely that it the path to achieving full statehood?), instead of choosing that it stole the aid money to enrich its leaders and build the extensive tunnel network, buy arms. collaborate with Iran and Hezbollah , and plan its terror attack on Israeli citizens, babies, children, women, men., and take hostages, babies, children, women and men. It has pledged to commit many more October 7ths. It, along with Hezbollah, has launched many 10s of thousands of rockets into Israel since October 7th, it has launched more terroritsts into Israel since october 7th to murder civilians and it has kept the hostages. It uses the death and suffering of its own people as propaganda to market itself, as we can see in Hamas' refusal to shelter its own civilians in its tunnel networks, in its stealing of food aid to control its population, to raise funds by selling the free aid to its own civilians and to feed itself .

Hamas and its allies are fuelled by a religious race hatred of Jews. As they hunted civilians to murder they repeatedly said ' where are the Jewish dogs? where are the Jews?'

The people they murdered were the peace lovers in hte Kibbutz who thought like you.

When the enemy is fanatically committed to beget violence until your nation and people are eradicated, and will happily 'martyr' their own civilians to do so, how do you think a chat will stop them?

Yes I will. Same as I do in any walk of life. A report which actually takes into account the whole picture.

I notice you have not addressed the points I make in my post either. How can you be committing genocide against people you are forewarning to leave the areas where conflict will take place?

And I am not impressed by prestige or status. I am impressed by the quality of arguments and data.

@factor50fan

Israel tried peace. It forcibly removed its citizens from Gaza in 2005.

Do you think truly think Israel's behavior towards Gaza from 2005 to 2023 was peaceful?

How can you answer that question without also looking at the behaviour of Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran etc?

It was relative peace for that area of the Middle East. It was certainly more peaceful that October 7th to deliberately provoke a war. Hamas were continuing to murder Israeli citizens and launch rocket attacks from 2005 right up to Oct 7th 2023 yet Israel did not respond with war. What other country which has rockets launched at it does that? What other country which has rocket attacks launched at it would be expected not to respond with war?

But of course, your narrative removes Hamas, and the rest of the middle east countries and factions who are seeking to destroy Israel, from the picture. Because doing that makes Israel look irrational and bad, rather than a nation trying to secure its survival from a host of players intent on its complete destruction.

And are you really saying that Hamas spending its resources on preparing for war rather than building peace was the right thing to do? Are you really saying that this should be wiped from our reckoning of Israel's actions? And of Hamas's actions?

‘Forewarning to leave’ means 2.2 million people have been displaced and are living in tents. There is talk of a gaza humanitarian geographical area where they will be housed. This is called ethnic cleansing. It is one of the things that happens as part of a genocide.

Obviously. Their behavior is a factor in some of Israels decisions regarding their considerable influence on the day to day running of Gaza .
But I was replying to a comment that stated Israel tried peace, something I would fundamentally disagree with.

I find it quite ironic you using the term "narrative" when it is quite clear you have created one that absolves Israel of any blame for any conflict .

Detention without trial, trial with a 99% conviction rate, permits for everyday life, control of borders, control of movement of goods and people not to mention the violence and murders plus policies to keep control of the economy such as denying Palestine access to it's natural resources.

Hamas are evil and wrong every step of the way but let's not pretend that Israel allowed the residents of Gaza to live in peace.

Interesting post.

Are you in Israel? Have you lived in Israel and experienced the constant rocket barrages, the need for an Iron Dome and bomb shelters in every home, the terrorist attacks perpetrated by terrorist groups including the PLO and Hamas ongoing from the 70s. I haven’t myself but even I can see from a distance why Israel has had a need to defend itselt.

If not do you support Israel’s existence and the need for a Jewish State?

Do you believe that the Jewish diaspora has no reason not to feel totally safe, in countries outside Israel, after a massive attack and the immediate majority global response which was to defend the attack because Israel had taken security measures to defend its citizens (the open air prison defence), from a elected terrorist organisation with an aim to annihilate it, while attacks against the Jewish diaspora who may never have stepped foot in Israel are dismissed as an inevitable response to that?

What do you think is being done in your name?

As a non-Jew, I see a battle against pure evil, with unprecedented steps being taken to minimise civilian deaths in a area deliberately made into a terrorist playground which the government of those civilians has orchestrated for as many as them to die in as possible, but which the supporters of Palestinians want them to remain in to be used as human sacrifices.

Israel is in an impossible situation of the devil you do, the devil you don’t, but they have to win this battle or the effects will reverberate for generations and not only in Israel.

Appeasement of Islamic extremist terrorists, global support for armed ‘resistance’ (meaning mass slaughter, gang rape, beheadings, babies taken hostage and murdered in captivity etc), suicidal empathy for terrorist causes becoming an accepted emotion, antisemitism becoming mainstream potentially leading to another holocaust of the Jewish people.

This conflict is not the cause of the outpouring of semitism we are currently seeing, it is a reason anti semites have an excuse to show it openly.

I saw a massive SM thread yesterday saying Israel was running the drug cartels in South America, was responsible for 9/11 and 7/7, the Iraq War, and then more sinister - Jews were responsible for Spanish Flu, killing Jesus, pornography, control the world with a 0.2% population of the world…….

I do find it shocking there are Jewish people who have lived through the holocaust, or have families who died in it, that can’t see through the terrorist propaganda and the ultimate outcome as a non Jew myself.

And what about Sudan, the Rohingya, the DRC, and Ethiopia? It’s always Gaza that garners these sorts of posts, isn’t it? Why is that? By the way, OP, what do you think Israel should have done in response to the terrorist massacre that took place on 7 October 2023? Do you think they should have just sat back, done nothing, and awaited the next attack? And the next?