It's not about genocide but about winning

[Mikkymik]

Further to my reply in the (now full) famine thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/conflict-in-the-middle-east/5396637-a-famine-has-been-declared-in-gaza-city?page=40&reply=146639624

I should point out that in my above post I've accepted - for argument's sake - that Israel is committing war crimes in its mission to win.

What Israel is absolutely not doing nor is it intent on doing, is genocide. Israel's aim is to win, which means disarming of Gaza and the return of the hostages. Once that happens not one more Palestinian has to die. It's not about killing a people (genocide) but about winning at all costs.

And frankly, as I said, the onus is on Gaza to surrender, seeing as they started this futile war.

It’s all awful. I think Israel believes it has the answer to the bad publicity-kill all the journalists who could be witnesses.

Point is the Gazans had no reason to engage in an 18-year terrorism campaign rather than embracing their newly gained autonomy. And seeing as they threw Fatah members from rooftops, it's a bit rich to pretend they are inextricably intertwined with Palestinians in the WB.

The simple fact is that the conflict was never about Levant Arabs aka Palestinians having a sovereign state, but about ensuring the Jews don't. They had multiple opportunities to embrace peace and a TSS, but they rejected it every time.

At this point, if they're suffering starvation, being killed etc etc, why isn't Gaza surrendering? Surely that's their best way forward.

I find you’re doing a lot of switching/mixing up between Hamas and Palestinians in your post. Hamas are a terrorist group. Not all Palestinians are terrorists.

They didn’t have autonomy - we just discussed how they might need to smuggle in essentials. Their economy, movement, ability to work was all massively affected by Israel. Hospitals had just a few hours of electricity a day, the sea was polluted with sewage because they didn’t have the necessary materials/tools to maintain it. That doesn’t exactly facilitate positive relations between the two sides, does it? Like I said before, research how the Israelis affected normal Palestinian lives and you’ll see one of the reasons why hatred grew. Reducing it to religion missses so much context.

And you ask why ‘Gaza’ aren’t surrendering? Because Gaza isn’t at war with Israel. Hamas is. Hamas are terrorist organisation who will probably fight til the bitter end, picking up recruits when possible. The 2m displaced people, some of whom are starving to death, some orphans, some childless aren’t fighting. They’re just stuck in the middle trying to survive.

Its bollocks that they had no reason to engage is hostilities. Gaza pre oct 7 was called an open air prison. I will post later more to describe Gaza pre Oct. Its not a life i think most people would be comfortable accepting as their lot in life.

Levantine Arabs are not AKA Palestinians. Levantine arabs include Lebanese, Palestinian, Syrian and Jordanian and each now have a distinctive national self identity. Comments like that (Levant arabs aka Palestinians) make it appear that you do not know what youbare talking about.

Would anyone here pick to live in the West Bank? I certainly wouldn't. My rights to travel defined by the colour of my car registration. Having to put forward a request to visit family members who having moved a few miles away now fall under a different settlement? Not being able to apply to jobs I'm qualified to do because I live in the wrong side of a wall? That's not living in peace, that's living under the control of a government that is telling me I should be grateful to be allowed to live where I am because they could throw me out of my home at anytime if they so wished.

Netanyahu's ultimate goal is to achieve the ethnic cleansing of all Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank to further his aim of creating a Greater Israel. He also needs permanent conflict to stay in power and out of jail for corruption.

This.

When the first item on the 6 o'clock news is two Israeli strikes on hospitals in Gaza it's hard to imagine anyone could have any sympathy left for Israel.

You forgot the part where he needs Christian blood.

What are you talking about? I hope you're not attempting to make a joke.

Yep.

WTAF @Mikkymik ?🤯

Nope, in a style reminiscent of Netanyahu, they're attempting to accuse people of invoking blood libel. Shameful and makes a mockery of actual antisemitism.

It was just a poor joke, made in anger by someone who is feeling cornered because they have little or no credible defence left.

So is this some poor form of anti semitic humour

What I mean is if you're going with the conspiracy theories just to demonise Netanyahu, you may as well go the full hog.

Netanyabu/Israel has no interest in governing Gaza and they never did. They offered it back to the Egyptians in the peace talks, but the Egyptians didn't want to know. They withdrew in 2005, leaving it to the Palestinians, but that turned out to be an unmitigated disaster.

Israel would love for some responsible and trustworthy third party to take over Gaza.

It's the conspiracy theory that Netenyahu propagates to deflect his guilt.

It's antisemetic.
It's not a joke.
It's distasteful.

You're out of order @Mikkymik!

Terrible. It's really awful the things Hamas have forced Israel to do to defend itself.

Before you repeat yourself again, please can you take some time to look at the impact Israeli blockades had on Palestinians. To suggest they left Gaza to the Palestinians and had no input whatsoever is factually incorrect.

I think you have really shown yourself up today.

That's very interesting.

Even Netanyahu has said that this incident was a mistake.

The world is finally waking up and seeing what Israel does. They have killed rescue workers. They are killing journalists. These are war crimes.

"A tragic mishap" - which happened twice!

I hope he is beginning to realise he is losing support over this kind of thing.

I don’t think he cares.

Until the USA turns against him, he will keep going.

https://x.com/nizmhani/status/1959661143137366359?s=46

this is an interesting graphic which breaks down why this is now a genocide.

That's so awful.

I don’t think people want to accept that this is a genocide and the infrastructure in Gaza has been destroyed. Genocide isn’t always fast, it can look like this.