A famine has been declared in Gaza city

[SaltAirAndTheRust]

https://news.sky.com/story/gaza-latest-war-israel-city-ceasefire-hamas-13415481

Meanwhile, up to 80,000 troops are being prepared to start an offensive there. There are no longer any words

We all had the respect to move aside and start our own thread in the early days.
Clearly respect doesn't work both ways

I wonder if it occurs to anyone that posters might have family starving in Gaza

No, I don’t believe I have. You, however, have defended and endorsed the starvation of children. I have said multiple times 7/10 was abhorrent.

No one should need more sources about Hamas than what we knew about them when they first attacked Israel. Facts that are not disputed by them are that they killed, tortured and raped about 1,200 citizens on 7/10 and kidnapped many others - some who have subsequently died in captivity.

Here is a source if you need more persuading (by Human Rights Watch)

October 7 Crimes Against Humanity, War Crimes by Hamas-led Groups

• Hamas-led armed groups committed numerous war crimes and crimes against humanity against civilians during the October 7 assault on southern Israel.
• Palestinian fighters committed summary killings, hostage-taking and other war crimes, and the crimes against humanity of murder and wrongful imprisonment.
• Governments with influence over the Palestinian armed groups should press for the urgent release of all civilian hostages.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/07/17/october-7-crimes-against-humanity-war-crimes-hamas-led-groups

Yes, I do, because it is fact that they distribute leaflets warning civilians to evacuate before they fire rockets. What is that if not an attempt to limit casualties?

That was quite simple wasn’t it.

Now do you accept that Israel are committing war crimes?

It would actually have to be considered a genocide first.

I know many people casually use the word genocide when referring to this conflict, but that is simply their opinion. Nothing more.

It is being investigated but I do not believe there is any intent for genocide on the part of Israel

This conflict is horrific, war crimes have undoubtedly been committed by both sides, Israel are fighting against an enemy that actively wants and maximises civilian casualties.

This is a war. A brutal one. But a war nonetheless.

An argument for genocide can be made in any war (some consider Russia to be committing genocide in Ukraine, some consider genocide to have been committed in Syria by Assad, some consider genocide to have been committed in Iraq and Afghanistan etc) but it all rests on intent.

A war against the innocent children?

Genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

1. Killing members of the group;
2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group

I think the issue Israel has is that members of its government have said things that, alongside their actions, give the intent element of genocide. That’ll be the sticking point, according to legal experts.

I think rhetoric from people like Smotrich also make ethnic cleansing a concern (rendering an area ethnically homogeneous by using force or intimidation to remove persons of given groups from the area).

Under the same definitions, Hamas (not the Palestinian people suffering) also could be found guilty of committing such crimes, including genocide in the legal sense, on 7/10. It appears some people believe genocide should lead to another genocide as retaliation. But then what becomes of the Palestinians if Israel is committing genocide? Are they ‘allowed’ or justified to commit a genocide in retaliation too?

Ok, back to famine. I'm going to hazard a guess that you are not medically qualified to make that judgement. If we were at the 'point of no return' and you are right that across gaza there was no possibility of improvement, why are aid agencies proposing that there are things to be done in terms of aid, medical assistance etc. Of course the situation can improve. Not least beacause 3/4 of the population, roughly are NOT experiencing famine.
Its a strange thing about this awful war. The people who are supposedly pro-Palestinian so often seem to want things to be worse than they actually are. It does point to the success of the worst propaganda.

When do you think it began, then?

What date are you gong back to?

Yes it was childishly simple so why were you demanding evidence for something all reasonable people have known to be true since 7/10/23 - almost 2 years ago!

I believe (and have already stated) that individual members of the IDF have committed war crimes.

I believe that Netanyahu and some members of his cabinet may have done so but I'm not a legal expert to know if they have committed war crimes in a legal sense or not. I would expect that to be fully investigated after the war.

But "Israel" - no, not the whole country.

Where have I endorsed and defended the starvation of children?

Interestingly though, for 7/10 to be a war crime, it implies that the war was happening before this.

You think Israel are conducting a war against children?

Do Hamas just not exist in your world?

Children have, and will always be, the biggest victims of war.

Hamas could allow the children, in fact, they could allow all civilians to take refuge in the tunnels. Why don’t they?

I think it’s a little more complicated when you’re asking millions of starving, vulnerable (very young, old or sick) or traumatised people to leave an area again. These people have been displaced again and again over 2 years. Giving them a leaflet and asking them to walk out into the unknown isn’t some great kindness. Especially when there’s no clear place of proper shelter for them to go to. Not to mention asking 18 hospitals to evacuate. That’s a death sentence to some.

So you dismiss information from the other side who actually know how much aid is going into Gaza because they are responsible for letting it through?

How are doctors getting information? I assume they are not going house to house?

I don’t deny there is a hunger crisis in Gaza but we should be weighing up the facts of who is engineering it, and it is being engineered as there is no natural famine is Gaza like there has been in Africa due to crop failures.

You’ve said multiple times that it’s not a genocide but just what happens during war.

Erm, no.

7/10 was universally an act of war, thus, the atrocities of 7/10 are war crimes.

I don't find it the semantics around that very interesting. Hamas committed war crimes on 7/10 however you like to dance around the subject.

Show me where I have endorsed and defended the starvation of children.

You’ve said it’s just what happens in war. Denied that it’s a genocide.

Sharon we see that they cannot do this because you never did endorse or defend the starvation of children.

You've got to be joking.

But she hasn’t said anything that isn’t true.

That sort of thing does happen in war.

I don’t understand the relevance of a person’s opinion that this conflict isn’t a genocide. Is that meant to prove something?

Thank you @Twiglets1