A famine has been declared in Gaza city

[SaltAirAndTheRust]

https://news.sky.com/story/gaza-latest-war-israel-city-ceasefire-hamas-13415481

Meanwhile, up to 80,000 troops are being prepared to start an offensive there. There are no longer any words

So we can agree that some people are using this conflict as a way of spreading antisemitism and others are interested for other reasons?

No, what I’m saying is that there will be atrocities happening behind the closed doors of Gaza which we don’t even know about yet. Israel flattening Gaza’s entire infrastructure and stopping aid is more obvious right now so is worth being critical of. I am very confident that I’ll also be outraged by the actions of Hamas when they are no doubt brought to light.

Of course things can improve. I really think its you who doesn't understand, and if you don't mind me saying so you are being melodramatic. Your previous lack of understanding of the numbers suggests you are using some unreliable sources.

Come on @PinkBobby

If you need more than 7/10 to get outraged by the actions of Hamas then there’s something wrong with how you are processing their behaviour.

No we're not really agreeing as that is not the point of what I said.

Absolutely.

in terms of the famine, they are at the point of no return for many hundreds of thousands of people.

Thats a very Trumpian/male way of belittling/shutting down debate.... poor dear doesn't understand....

None of that is facts.

You don’t even believe Hamas are committing war crimes in Gaza. Do you have any sources for that? I’d be interested to see them.

Start another thread? this one is about famine caused by Israel.

if you’re going to make assertions you should be able to back them up.

You can’t possibly believe that the IDF have been aiming to minimise civilian casualties

The topics of threads fluctuate.

Surely you’ve been around long enough to know that?

You might notice that she accused me of not understanding. Yet what she said was factually incorrect, both about recovery from food shortages (not everywhere is in famine) and numbers of children killed, so objectively she clearly doesn't understand. Its not 'male' (I am female) to point it out. And Trumpian is just silly.

But when you say that you don’t believe Israel is committing genocide that is genocide denial!

Its only denial if it has been ruled a genocide which it hasnt. To believe it is not genocide is a perfectly reputable opinion, even if its different to yours. To keep accusing people who disagree with you of being a genocide denier is just bandied about on this board as an insult.

Well with logic like that ... what if Israel isn't committing genocide? or if enough facts aren't yet known for the UK to classify it as a genocide... then denying it is a genocide could be considered correct at this moment in time.

Looked at another way, we're all entitled to our opinions on whether this is a law or a genocide and there's no need to insult people who hold different opinions to you.

War not law!

You seriously need people to provide proof that Hamas is committing war crimes. Do you not believe they are keeping hostages?

So to get this straight.

when it comes to the actions of Hamas we’re to take your words for it.

but when it comes to Israel, it must be ruled on in court?

because the icj has begun the process of ruling that Israel is committing a genocide.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3g9g63jl17o.amp

I think you should abide by the same standard you hold others to.

@SaltAirAndTheRust I think you've lost the room (hope you have anyway) with your insistence on defending Hamas from the accusation that they have committed war crimes.

I’m not defending them.

interesting though. You demand sources for everything people say about Israel, when sources are provided you rubbish them, yet when someone asks you for sources it’s “defending Hamas”? Interesting indeed.

I don’t Think OP has lost the room I think the thread has

people have left due to the complete inability to show a little respect for the subject in hand

Classic pile on to shut down speech

It’s sickening. Absolutely sickening.

Oh dear. Genocide is complicated and has legal weight. Yes it has to be ruled in court.
Taking hostages is clear and unequivocally a war crime. We dont need a court to rule on that, do we?
I'm flattered but my words don't carry much weight on the international stage. I do think that absolutely nobody needs to prove here on mumsnet that Hamas have committed war crimes. They are a proscribed terrorist organisation with 20 years of documented dictatorshiop, gross human rights abuses, violations of international law etc and we all know they are holding hostages. We dont need to provide sources to back any of tbis up. You have got yourself into a moral tangle, to put it kindly