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Conflict in the Middle East

No military is more publicly condemned today than the Israel Defense Forces.

303 replies

ConscientiousObserver · 06/08/2025 21:36

Extremely informative article by Yoav Gallant, Former Israeli Defence Minister and John Spencer, Executive Director of the Urban Warfare Institute.

No military is more publicly condemned today than the Israel Defense Forces. Yet behind closed doors, few are more studied. Western generals and defense officials routinely seek Israeli briefings, request access to doctrine and tactics, and pursue cooperation on training and technology. These efforts continue even as their political counterparts issue statements of moral outrage and condemnation. The contradiction reflects more than a double standard. It reveals a deeper divide between political perception and military reality, between external messaging and internal understanding, between illusion and experience.

Since the war in Gaza began, Israel has hosted dozens of foreign delegations. Military officers and defense officials observe Israeli operations firsthand. They ask technical questions about targeting processes, coordination between air and ground forces, real-time intelligence integration, and how combat units distinguish between civilians and combatants under fire. Some return weeks later to formalize cooperation on areas ranging from tunnel warfare to hostage recovery to civilian harm mitigation. Meanwhile, many of their political counterparts deliver rehearsed remarks emphasizing restraint, proportionality, and civilian protection, often with little connection to the operational context or ground realities they were just briefed on.

This is not just political inconsistency. It is strategic dissonance. War is never clean. Urban warfare against a hybrid enemy embedded in civilian areas is among the most complex challenges modern democracies will face. Yet the public discussion is often dominated by expectations of precision and perfection that no military force can guarantee. In many capitals, political performance overrides professional understanding.

In Gaza, Hamas constructed more than 300 miles of fortified tunnels beneath civilian infrastructure. It operates from hospitals, schools, and mosques by design, not necessity. Early in the war, the IDF learned a simple rule: if you want to find a tunnel, look beneath a school. If you are searching for an enemy headquarters, start under a mosque. If you suspect an arms depot, check the basement of a hospital. This is not coincidence; it is a consistent, deliberate tactic. Hamas has blocked evacuations, placed command centers inside humanitarian zones, and taken hundreds of hostages. These are not side effects of war. They are deliberate features of a strategy built to paralyze democracies, provoke condemnation, and weaponize civilian suffering. The targeting of civilians is not incidental. It is essential to Hamas’s operational concept.

Many political leaders respond by invoking past conflicts. They reference battles in Mosul, Aleppo, Fallujah, or Raqqa, assuming these comparisons provide meaningful precedent. But most of these conflicts did not involve an adversary intentionally preventing civilians from leaving combat zones. Most did not involve hundreds of hostages dispersed across a dense urban battlefield. Most involved insurgencies, not foreign-backed terror armies. Many involved military forces that did not follow the same standards of precision and accountability expected of Israel. These differences matter. Failing to account for them leads to flawed analysis and unrealistic policy prescriptions.

These dynamics are not limited to Gaza. Across the region, similar tactics are emerging. In southern Syria, the Julani regime has carried out atrocities against the Druze population while embedded within civilian areas. These acts of cruelty follow the same playbook used by Hamas. Yet few international voices draw consistent lines between them. This silence reflects another gap: the unwillingness to apply standards evenly when the political costs differ. Condemnation is directed at those who can hear it. Those who operate beyond the reach of democratic norms often face no scrutiny at all.

While calls for humanitarian concern grow louder, few political leaders press for solutions that would actually reduce civilian harm. Egypt continues to keep its border with Gaza closed, despite being the sole neighboring country uninvolved in the conflict and capable of providing immediate relief to civilians seeking safety. Evacuation routes remain blocked. Temporary refuge for civilians is politically possible but diplomatically ignored. Not a single major European government or United Nations body has mounted sustained pressure on Cairo to open the Rafah crossing or to establish a displaced persons or humanitarian zone a few kilometers into the Sinai. Instead, criticism centers on Israel, the only actor currently conducting both combat and humanitarian operations in the same battlespace. The imbalance distorts both perception and policy.

This is not the first time democracies have confronted hard choices. The wars of the twentieth century were waged with heavy costs. Civilian casualties were tragically high. But the principle of civilian protection was strengthened over time, especially with the Geneva Conventions adopted after World War II. Those conventions remain the foundation of the modern laws of war. They prohibit intentional attacks on civilians and impose a duty to take feasible precautions to avoid civilian harm. But they do not demand perfection, nor do they outlaw war itself. When adversaries exploit civilians to provoke condemnation and delay operations, the responsibility lies with those who commit the violations—not those who attempt to respond within the law.

The numbers bear remembering. Two million civilians died in the Korean War, averaging over 50,000 per month. More than ten thousand were killed in the liberation of a single city, Mosul. Hundreds of thousands died during military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Cities were flattened in the campaign against ISIS. These are not historical footnotes. They are reminders of what war has always entailed, especially in dense urban environments. Today, only one military—the IDF—is expected to achieve battlefield success without error, without civilian harm, and without criticism, even as it faces enemies who deliberately try to make this impossible.

Despite this, militaries around the world continue to seek Israeli knowledge. Governments initiate formal cooperation agreements. Officers train in Israeli facilities. Procurement programs focus on Israeli defense technologies developed through experience in real combat conditions. These are not isolated interactions. They are serious, structured engagements based on the recognition that similar wars may lie ahead. European and NATO militaries understand that future threats may look more like Hamas than like conventional armies. They are preparing accordingly.
This is not a blanket condemnation of all political leaders. Many do understand what modern war demands and the reality Israel is confronting. Nor is the political-professional divide a one-way street. War is ultimately the pursuit of political objectives, and in a democracy, those objectives are set by political leaders based on the best advice of their military advisors. At the same time, senior military leaders must understand the domestic, international, and geopolitical factors that frame and constrain the use of force. Political leaders cannot speak about war without accounting for context, history, strategy, tactics, and operational reality. And military leaders cannot speak about war without understanding the political environment that defines it. The tension between political and professional perspectives is not a flaw. It is a feature of democratic governance. But it must be informed, mutual, and honest.

Unfortunately, that equilibrium is too often lost. Political leaders too often avoid difficult truths. Some present war as inherently unjust. Others suggest that all violence can be avoided with diplomacy or restraint. Few acknowledge that, in extreme cases, force may be both necessary and lawful. This avoidance does not strengthen democracy. It weakens it. It misleads citizens, erodes deterrence, and gives adversaries greater freedom of action.

In Israel, such illusions are not possible. Conflict is measured in meters. Homes sit a few hundred yards from hostile territory. Missiles arrive in seconds. Tunnels turn rear areas into front lines. Civilian buildings become military objectives by design. This is not theoretical. It is a daily reality.
On October 7, Hamas killed 1,200 Israelis, many through direct atrocities. Adjusted for population, that would be the equivalent of over 40,000 Americans or more than 8,000 Britons killed in a single day. International law permits self-defense, even in war. It also permits the use of force against military objectives. Proportionality accounts for the presence of civilians, even when they are unlawfully placed at risk by those who violate the laws of war. It requires that civilian harm not be excessive in relation to the anticipated military advantage and that every feasible precaution be taken to minimize that harm. Israel has done both.
Democracies must regain strategic clarity. They cannot afford to treat war as a morality play while military officers prepare for reality. They must explain to their populations that war, when necessary, is not only legal but at times morally required. They must recognize that the expectations placed on allies today may become the burdens they bear tomorrow. The next war will not wait for consensus. It will demand readiness, resolve, and truth.

If democratic leaders continue to separate what they know privately from what they say publicly, the result will not be greater morality. It will be greater suffering and failure. Silence will not deter enemies. Illusion will not protect civilians. And condemnation, without context or consistency, will not produce peace.

The hard lessons of war must be faced, not avoided. Military professionals understand this. It is time for political leaders to do the same.
General Yoav Gallant, former Israeli Minister of Defense and decorated IDF commander, shares strategic insights on leadership, security, and geopolitics—drawing from nearly five decades at the forefront of Israel’s national defense.

John Spencer is Executive Director of the Urban Warfare Institute and co-author of Understanding Urban Warfare. A leading expert on urban warfare, he advised senior U.S. Army leaders through strategic roles from the Pentagon to West Point.

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29
Kakeandkake · 12/08/2025 10:21

Off topic but what happened to the thread about the journalists this morning? I was still reading some of the comments before it disappeared.

DrPrunesqualer · 12/08/2025 10:29

Kakeandkake · 12/08/2025 10:21

Off topic but what happened to the thread about the journalists this morning? I was still reading some of the comments before it disappeared.

I wasn’t aware of a specific one but it’s being discussed in the later pages of @Twiglets1 thread.
Some really interesting research going on there by posters

No military is more publicly condemned today than the Israel Defense Forces.
Kakeandkake · 12/08/2025 10:30

Thanks

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 10:45

DrPrunesqualer · 12/08/2025 10:17

That isn’t really letting them have free journalism though is it. They will be only allowed to see what Israel wants them to see…so more propaganda then

Given the IDF have killed well over 200 it should be down to them to not kill innocents
and allow journalists to report what they want and what they see freely and without any constraints

In an ideal world yes they should be allowed free access, but Hamas will want to kill them because for the first time you will have journalists in Gaza who may actually be neutral and not afraid to be negative about Hamas as well as the IDF.

We don’t have free journalism in Gaza now do we? At least foreign journalists will have the ability to report freely on what they saw in Gaza when they get home. Even if what they are allowed to see is not as broad as it ideally would be, the IDF can’t stop them seeing a lot of things.

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 10:46

Kakeandkake · 12/08/2025 10:21

Off topic but what happened to the thread about the journalists this morning? I was still reading some of the comments before it disappeared.

It got taken down as being against site guidelines- I was just reading it too when it suddenly disappeared and I got that message.

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 10:47

I’m off out for a few hours how but will rejoin the discussion later.

DrPrunesqualer · 12/08/2025 11:02

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 10:45

In an ideal world yes they should be allowed free access, but Hamas will want to kill them because for the first time you will have journalists in Gaza who may actually be neutral and not afraid to be negative about Hamas as well as the IDF.

We don’t have free journalism in Gaza now do we? At least foreign journalists will have the ability to report freely on what they saw in Gaza when they get home. Even if what they are allowed to see is not as broad as it ideally would be, the IDF can’t stop them seeing a lot of things.

The evidence to date is not Hamas but the IDF that have killed journalists.

So I would disagree, based on precedent, that Hamas would want to kill them.

Embedded within the IDF is not free journalism.

DrPrunesqualer · 12/08/2025 11:04

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 10:46

It got taken down as being against site guidelines- I was just reading it too when it suddenly disappeared and I got that message.

Out of interest. As ihavent read it. Why was it not within MNet guidelines. Was it because posters were getting a bit heated
Or was it the subject / title ?

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 11:11

DrPrunesqualer · 12/08/2025 11:02

The evidence to date is not Hamas but the IDF that have killed journalists.

So I would disagree, based on precedent, that Hamas would want to kill them.

Embedded within the IDF is not free journalism.

But Hamas haven’t had a chance to kill foreign journalists yet have they? And the local ones don’t say anything anti Hamas.

They would have a desire to kill foreign journalists wandering around like deer in a jungle but the IDF will be protecting them to an extent.

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 11:13

DrPrunesqualer · 12/08/2025 11:04

Out of interest. As ihavent read it. Why was it not within MNet guidelines. Was it because posters were getting a bit heated
Or was it the subject / title ?

As far as I can remember the title was not that different to others … it was very heated but I don’t know why exactly it got taken down as I was just reading it at the time. I really am leaving for a bit now!

DrPrunesqualer · 12/08/2025 11:16

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 11:11

But Hamas haven’t had a chance to kill foreign journalists yet have they? And the local ones don’t say anything anti Hamas.

They would have a desire to kill foreign journalists wandering around like deer in a jungle but the IDF will be protecting them to an extent.

Thanks Twigs. I appreciate you would think that

I agree if they are known to be with the IDF they at least won’t kill them

DrPrunesqualer · 12/08/2025 11:18

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 11:11

But Hamas haven’t had a chance to kill foreign journalists yet have they? And the local ones don’t say anything anti Hamas.

They would have a desire to kill foreign journalists wandering around like deer in a jungle but the IDF will be protecting them to an extent.

I would note that of course Hamas had a chance to kill journalists in the early days when they were allowed in. Even before October 7th.

OhCalmTheFuckDownMargaret · 12/08/2025 11:38

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 10:04

They are going to start allowing foreign journalists in - Netanyahu announced it at his press conference on Sunday ( under the supervision of the IDF for safety reasons)

So only allowed to go where the IDF allow them to go and only allowed to report what the IDF allow them to report. Well that sounds like perfectly unbiased reporting doesn’t it?!

DrPrunesqualer · 12/08/2025 11:39

OhCalmTheFuckDownMargaret · 12/08/2025 11:38

So only allowed to go where the IDF allow them to go and only allowed to report what the IDF allow them to report. Well that sounds like perfectly unbiased reporting doesn’t it?!

Agree
An Israeli propaganda machine

GladioliGreen · 12/08/2025 12:22

DrPrunesqualer · 12/08/2025 11:02

The evidence to date is not Hamas but the IDF that have killed journalists.

So I would disagree, based on precedent, that Hamas would want to kill them.

Embedded within the IDF is not free journalism.

It's a strange situation. Hamas haven't killed any foreign medics or aid workers, there is nothing solid to suggest that if International journalists entered Gaza Hamas would target them. French historian Jean-Pierre Filiu spent a month in Gaza during the conflict recording what he was seeing and Hamas didn't target him.

On the other hand we have Israel who have killed international aid workers, who have killed 100s of journalists across multiple territories. They've killed journalists families including the 18 month old grandson and 7 year old daughter of Al jazeera journalist Wael al-Dahdouh, I think lots of us will remember that. I think lots of us will also remember Motaz Azaiza and his terror at the daily death threats he received before fleeing Gaza. Other journalists have also reported receiving threats to their families from Israeli officials before their families were killed.

From looking at what has actually happened rather than making up stories of what could possibly happen I know who I think are the biggest threats to journalists in Gaza. To me it seems like common sense but there doesn't seem to be an abundance of that floating around the place.

BelleHathor · 12/08/2025 12:45

DrPrunesqualer · 12/08/2025 11:39

Agree
An Israeli propaganda machine

Well Netanyahu did moan during his recent press conference that Israel was losing the propaganda war. So his solution propaganda more!

I'm laughing because there are currently 45 American journalists in Israel :
"on an Israeli-funded PR tour, staying at Jerusalem’s King David Hotel, meeting top Israeli officials.....”

The trip, arranged by Israel’s foreign ministry, includes no entry to Gaza and no contact with Palestinians, only curated scenes and official talking points, designed to whitewash war crimes and manufacture consent for atrocities

DrPrunesqualer · 12/08/2025 14:47

BelleHathor · 12/08/2025 12:45

Well Netanyahu did moan during his recent press conference that Israel was losing the propaganda war. So his solution propaganda more!

I'm laughing because there are currently 45 American journalists in Israel :
"on an Israeli-funded PR tour, staying at Jerusalem’s King David Hotel, meeting top Israeli officials.....”

The trip, arranged by Israel’s foreign ministry, includes no entry to Gaza and no contact with Palestinians, only curated scenes and official talking points, designed to whitewash war crimes and manufacture consent for atrocities

Exactly.
To say Israel is letting journalists in now is pure nonsense

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 14:51

DrPrunesqualer · 12/08/2025 14:47

Exactly.
To say Israel is letting journalists in now is pure nonsense

Netanyahu said they are going to allow foreign journalists into Gaza so I'm looking forward to seeing Jeremy Bowen wandering about with free rein if he manages to shake off his IDF oppressors.

DrPrunesqualer · 12/08/2025 15:02

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 14:51

Netanyahu said they are going to allow foreign journalists into Gaza so I'm looking forward to seeing Jeremy Bowen wandering about with free rein if he manages to shake off his IDF oppressors.

See Belles post.
The conditions of entry

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 16:10

DrPrunesqualer · 12/08/2025 15:02

See Belles post.
The conditions of entry

Belle is talking about one specific group of journalists though at one event. No source provided which is typical, I'm afraid.

If that trip included "no entry to Gaza" it is very clearly not the same thing as what Netanyahu mentioned in his press conference, which was relating to foreign journalist about to come into Gaza.

BelleHathor · 12/08/2025 19:38

No source provided which is typical, I'm afraid.

Lol, 😄😄😄😅😉! Here is the Quds network reporting on it yesterday (p.s. be careful they are a Palestinian outlet 😉):
https://x.com/QudsNen/status/1955043712654061597

Also here is a source on the current situation in Gaza, The West Bank amd Jerusalem. From an actual Palestinian who lives in Jerusalem:

https://x.com/ziadazj/status/1955230636215546243

For the others, please do continue, you are doing an excellent job of representing the Israeli government as evidenced by their growing popularity around the World as this Republican representative discovered a couple of days ago:

https://x.com/Villgecrazylady/status/1955241093416509700

https://x.com/QudsNen/status/1955043712654061597

DrPrunesqualer · 12/08/2025 19:48

Thanks belle. That last one is powerful and just thought I’d screen shot this from one of your links.

No military is more publicly condemned today than the Israel Defense Forces.
Weltall · 12/08/2025 19:49

BelleHathor · 12/08/2025 19:38

No source provided which is typical, I'm afraid.

Lol, 😄😄😄😅😉! Here is the Quds network reporting on it yesterday (p.s. be careful they are a Palestinian outlet 😉):
https://x.com/QudsNen/status/1955043712654061597

Also here is a source on the current situation in Gaza, The West Bank amd Jerusalem. From an actual Palestinian who lives in Jerusalem:

https://x.com/ziadazj/status/1955230636215546243

For the others, please do continue, you are doing an excellent job of representing the Israeli government as evidenced by their growing popularity around the World as this Republican representative discovered a couple of days ago:

https://x.com/Villgecrazylady/status/1955241093416509700

The same Quds network who think October 7th was an act of resistance by freedom fighters? Yeah not surprised you listen to them.

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 19:54

Media Bias Fact Check for Quds News Network:

Factual Reporting: Low
Credibility Rating: Low Credibility

Analysis / Bias
Quds News Network is reported to have affiliations with Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, according to the Associated Press in 2015.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/quds-news-network-bias-and-credibility/

BelleHathor · 12/08/2025 19:57

DrPrunesqualer · 12/08/2025 19:48

Thanks belle. That last one is powerful and just thought I’d screen shot this from one of your links.

Absolutely, especially as they are Republicans, flag carrying, America the great, usually pro-war contingent. You could almost see the "oh, shit" dawn on that representatives face. The fact that the political class doesn't realise what is brewing is fascinating.