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Conflict in the Middle East

No military is more publicly condemned today than the Israel Defense Forces.

303 replies

ConscientiousObserver · 06/08/2025 21:36

Extremely informative article by Yoav Gallant, Former Israeli Defence Minister and John Spencer, Executive Director of the Urban Warfare Institute.

No military is more publicly condemned today than the Israel Defense Forces. Yet behind closed doors, few are more studied. Western generals and defense officials routinely seek Israeli briefings, request access to doctrine and tactics, and pursue cooperation on training and technology. These efforts continue even as their political counterparts issue statements of moral outrage and condemnation. The contradiction reflects more than a double standard. It reveals a deeper divide between political perception and military reality, between external messaging and internal understanding, between illusion and experience.

Since the war in Gaza began, Israel has hosted dozens of foreign delegations. Military officers and defense officials observe Israeli operations firsthand. They ask technical questions about targeting processes, coordination between air and ground forces, real-time intelligence integration, and how combat units distinguish between civilians and combatants under fire. Some return weeks later to formalize cooperation on areas ranging from tunnel warfare to hostage recovery to civilian harm mitigation. Meanwhile, many of their political counterparts deliver rehearsed remarks emphasizing restraint, proportionality, and civilian protection, often with little connection to the operational context or ground realities they were just briefed on.

This is not just political inconsistency. It is strategic dissonance. War is never clean. Urban warfare against a hybrid enemy embedded in civilian areas is among the most complex challenges modern democracies will face. Yet the public discussion is often dominated by expectations of precision and perfection that no military force can guarantee. In many capitals, political performance overrides professional understanding.

In Gaza, Hamas constructed more than 300 miles of fortified tunnels beneath civilian infrastructure. It operates from hospitals, schools, and mosques by design, not necessity. Early in the war, the IDF learned a simple rule: if you want to find a tunnel, look beneath a school. If you are searching for an enemy headquarters, start under a mosque. If you suspect an arms depot, check the basement of a hospital. This is not coincidence; it is a consistent, deliberate tactic. Hamas has blocked evacuations, placed command centers inside humanitarian zones, and taken hundreds of hostages. These are not side effects of war. They are deliberate features of a strategy built to paralyze democracies, provoke condemnation, and weaponize civilian suffering. The targeting of civilians is not incidental. It is essential to Hamas’s operational concept.

Many political leaders respond by invoking past conflicts. They reference battles in Mosul, Aleppo, Fallujah, or Raqqa, assuming these comparisons provide meaningful precedent. But most of these conflicts did not involve an adversary intentionally preventing civilians from leaving combat zones. Most did not involve hundreds of hostages dispersed across a dense urban battlefield. Most involved insurgencies, not foreign-backed terror armies. Many involved military forces that did not follow the same standards of precision and accountability expected of Israel. These differences matter. Failing to account for them leads to flawed analysis and unrealistic policy prescriptions.

These dynamics are not limited to Gaza. Across the region, similar tactics are emerging. In southern Syria, the Julani regime has carried out atrocities against the Druze population while embedded within civilian areas. These acts of cruelty follow the same playbook used by Hamas. Yet few international voices draw consistent lines between them. This silence reflects another gap: the unwillingness to apply standards evenly when the political costs differ. Condemnation is directed at those who can hear it. Those who operate beyond the reach of democratic norms often face no scrutiny at all.

While calls for humanitarian concern grow louder, few political leaders press for solutions that would actually reduce civilian harm. Egypt continues to keep its border with Gaza closed, despite being the sole neighboring country uninvolved in the conflict and capable of providing immediate relief to civilians seeking safety. Evacuation routes remain blocked. Temporary refuge for civilians is politically possible but diplomatically ignored. Not a single major European government or United Nations body has mounted sustained pressure on Cairo to open the Rafah crossing or to establish a displaced persons or humanitarian zone a few kilometers into the Sinai. Instead, criticism centers on Israel, the only actor currently conducting both combat and humanitarian operations in the same battlespace. The imbalance distorts both perception and policy.

This is not the first time democracies have confronted hard choices. The wars of the twentieth century were waged with heavy costs. Civilian casualties were tragically high. But the principle of civilian protection was strengthened over time, especially with the Geneva Conventions adopted after World War II. Those conventions remain the foundation of the modern laws of war. They prohibit intentional attacks on civilians and impose a duty to take feasible precautions to avoid civilian harm. But they do not demand perfection, nor do they outlaw war itself. When adversaries exploit civilians to provoke condemnation and delay operations, the responsibility lies with those who commit the violations—not those who attempt to respond within the law.

The numbers bear remembering. Two million civilians died in the Korean War, averaging over 50,000 per month. More than ten thousand were killed in the liberation of a single city, Mosul. Hundreds of thousands died during military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Cities were flattened in the campaign against ISIS. These are not historical footnotes. They are reminders of what war has always entailed, especially in dense urban environments. Today, only one military—the IDF—is expected to achieve battlefield success without error, without civilian harm, and without criticism, even as it faces enemies who deliberately try to make this impossible.

Despite this, militaries around the world continue to seek Israeli knowledge. Governments initiate formal cooperation agreements. Officers train in Israeli facilities. Procurement programs focus on Israeli defense technologies developed through experience in real combat conditions. These are not isolated interactions. They are serious, structured engagements based on the recognition that similar wars may lie ahead. European and NATO militaries understand that future threats may look more like Hamas than like conventional armies. They are preparing accordingly.
This is not a blanket condemnation of all political leaders. Many do understand what modern war demands and the reality Israel is confronting. Nor is the political-professional divide a one-way street. War is ultimately the pursuit of political objectives, and in a democracy, those objectives are set by political leaders based on the best advice of their military advisors. At the same time, senior military leaders must understand the domestic, international, and geopolitical factors that frame and constrain the use of force. Political leaders cannot speak about war without accounting for context, history, strategy, tactics, and operational reality. And military leaders cannot speak about war without understanding the political environment that defines it. The tension between political and professional perspectives is not a flaw. It is a feature of democratic governance. But it must be informed, mutual, and honest.

Unfortunately, that equilibrium is too often lost. Political leaders too often avoid difficult truths. Some present war as inherently unjust. Others suggest that all violence can be avoided with diplomacy or restraint. Few acknowledge that, in extreme cases, force may be both necessary and lawful. This avoidance does not strengthen democracy. It weakens it. It misleads citizens, erodes deterrence, and gives adversaries greater freedom of action.

In Israel, such illusions are not possible. Conflict is measured in meters. Homes sit a few hundred yards from hostile territory. Missiles arrive in seconds. Tunnels turn rear areas into front lines. Civilian buildings become military objectives by design. This is not theoretical. It is a daily reality.
On October 7, Hamas killed 1,200 Israelis, many through direct atrocities. Adjusted for population, that would be the equivalent of over 40,000 Americans or more than 8,000 Britons killed in a single day. International law permits self-defense, even in war. It also permits the use of force against military objectives. Proportionality accounts for the presence of civilians, even when they are unlawfully placed at risk by those who violate the laws of war. It requires that civilian harm not be excessive in relation to the anticipated military advantage and that every feasible precaution be taken to minimize that harm. Israel has done both.
Democracies must regain strategic clarity. They cannot afford to treat war as a morality play while military officers prepare for reality. They must explain to their populations that war, when necessary, is not only legal but at times morally required. They must recognize that the expectations placed on allies today may become the burdens they bear tomorrow. The next war will not wait for consensus. It will demand readiness, resolve, and truth.

If democratic leaders continue to separate what they know privately from what they say publicly, the result will not be greater morality. It will be greater suffering and failure. Silence will not deter enemies. Illusion will not protect civilians. And condemnation, without context or consistency, will not produce peace.

The hard lessons of war must be faced, not avoided. Military professionals understand this. It is time for political leaders to do the same.
General Yoav Gallant, former Israeli Minister of Defense and decorated IDF commander, shares strategic insights on leadership, security, and geopolitics—drawing from nearly five decades at the forefront of Israel’s national defense.

John Spencer is Executive Director of the Urban Warfare Institute and co-author of Understanding Urban Warfare. A leading expert on urban warfare, he advised senior U.S. Army leaders through strategic roles from the Pentagon to West Point.

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SummerFeverVenice · 10/08/2025 13:44

@Twiglets1
”I know there have been allegations of mistreatment & torture in Israeli detention ** but I also know this has been denied by the IDF and Israel Prison Service (IPS). Though again, this is a separate issue to the conversation you have joined that I was having with another poster specifically relating to journalists.”

Yes, I know it’s been a different convo that was going on while I was away. Just catching up on the thread and I think your question for credible sources and evidence is completely reasonable. I ask for these myself too! So just trying to help out.

The IDF have not, to my knowledge, denied all allegations of mistreatment, torture and sexual abuse. In fact they have admitted to certain cases and in the most shocking cases even arrested prison guards. What the IDF deny is that mistreatment, torture and sexual violence is being systematically done in the prisons on the orders of or by tacit permissiveness of the commanders. The IDF has said it’s a few rogue prison guards that are responsible, and who will be held accountable.

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 10/08/2025 13:52

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SummerFeverVenice · 10/08/2025 14:13

ConscientiousObserver · 10/08/2025 13:21

So, I repeat, is that not Bisan in the video then?

Its a really simple question.

She is clearly talking in one clip.

The young woman doesn’t look anything like Bisan to me, especially considering this was in 2015 so the young woman 20s would not still look as young as Bisan is today. Her facial features, height and body proportions are not the same, her hair is naturally straight while Bisan has naturally very curly hair.

But human eyes aren’t as reliable as the facial recognition software run by CNN & Al Jazeera fact checkers and even that can’t be beat by Shin Bet’s military grade facial recognition AI and software. They all say that’s not Bisan.

But you can go ahead and trust your eyes and think these two Palestinian women look identical.

ConscientiousObserver · 10/08/2025 14:14

This reply has been deleted

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Have you got any?

Note that this discussion was about systemic abuse and I did mention that allegations found to be proven are rightly punished - is that where the Israeli court reference comes from?

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ConscientiousObserver · 10/08/2025 14:16

SummerFeverVenice · 10/08/2025 14:13

The young woman doesn’t look anything like Bisan to me, especially considering this was in 2015 so the young woman 20s would not still look as young as Bisan is today. Her facial features, height and body proportions are not the same, her hair is naturally straight while Bisan has naturally very curly hair.

But human eyes aren’t as reliable as the facial recognition software run by CNN & Al Jazeera fact checkers and even that can’t be beat by Shin Bet’s military grade facial recognition AI and software. They all say that’s not Bisan.

But you can go ahead and trust your eyes and think these two Palestinian women look identical.

Can you direct me to where the Shin Bet stated that?

Odd thing for them to get involved with tbh.

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SummerFeverVenice · 10/08/2025 14:34

ConscientiousObserver · 10/08/2025 14:16

Can you direct me to where the Shin Bet stated that?

Odd thing for them to get involved with tbh.

IDF is only detaining journalists linked to terror groups, no? And whenever civilians are evacuated (Bisan included) they go through check points with ID cards and handheld facial recognition scanners using the Shin Bet AI. If that woman in the photo were Bisan, the Shin Bet facial recognition would have pinged and she would have been arrested. She has probably gone through dozens of checkpoints….

ConscientiousObserver · 10/08/2025 14:35

So Shin Bet haven’t said that?

OK.

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Twiglets1 · 10/08/2025 14:36

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This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

GladioliGreen · 10/08/2025 18:00

This reply has been deleted

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It's always the way on here. When it comes to Palestinians it's #wedontbelieve you. It's gross but it is what it is. Engaging with people like that is a complete waste of time.

ConscientiousObserver · 10/08/2025 18:55

GladioliGreen · 10/08/2025 18:00

It's always the way on here. When it comes to Palestinians it's #wedontbelieve you. It's gross but it is what it is. Engaging with people like that is a complete waste of time.

The thing you seem to miss is that the Palestinians have a vested interest in painting Israel as the bad guy and have done so for decades. Propaganda against Israel is their main tool in this conflict and always has been.

Right back to 1948 and the ‘great catastrophe’ when the Arab armies didn’t achieve their aim of wiping out Israel and the Jewish people, after telling the Arabs that they needed to clear out while they did so.

That doesn’t work the opposite way as not many seem to care to what the Palestinians do to the Jewish people

The reaction to Oct 7th and the feigned ignorance of why Israel had to implement security measures when Hamas was elected in 2006, their history of terrorist attacks against Israel prior to that, and the terrorism in the region as a whole including the PLO and Hezbollah. clearly evidences that.

Many people don’t still don’t believe that Palestinian civilians, as well as the terrorists, committed the atrocities (including of course, the gang rapes), of Oct 7th and that a large amount of them showed their support of it afterwards, despite them filming it themselves,

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Twiglets1 · 11/08/2025 08:40

This reply has been deleted

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Apologies @SummerFeverVenice

The horrible comment about rape (since deleted) was not made by you but by
@Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice

I've just reported my own post to ask that it gets edited.

Dangermoo · 11/08/2025 17:50

ButterfliesnWaterfalls · 06/08/2025 21:51

Free Palestine 🇵🇸

I stand with 🇮🇱

HellsBalls · 11/08/2025 18:59

Dangermoo · 11/08/2025 17:50

I stand with 🇮🇱

Me too, and millions others.

Timeforabitofpeace · 11/08/2025 19:30

IDF should be condemned for targeting journalists.

HellsBalls · 11/08/2025 20:58

Timeforabitofpeace · 11/08/2025 19:30

IDF should be condemned for targeting journalists.

The IDF should be commended for targeting terrorists.
https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/10/24/idf-exposes-six-al-jazeera-journalists-as-hamas-islamic-jihad-terrorists/

DrPrunesqualer · 12/08/2025 01:23

FDD are biased towards Israel. You only have to read their responses and views in their articles to see that loud and clear

As such
Not a credible source

No military is more publicly condemned today than the Israel Defense Forces.
No military is more publicly condemned today than the Israel Defense Forces.
Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 08:02

DrPrunesqualer · 12/08/2025 01:23

FDD are biased towards Israel. You only have to read their responses and views in their articles to see that loud and clear

As such
Not a credible source

According to the media bias fact check website, they are "moderate to strongly biased" toward conservative causes but are mostly factual & have medium credibility.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/foundation-defense-democracies/

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 08:07

Al Jazeera by comparison have a "slight to moderate" liberal bias.

They are not found to be "mostly factual" like the above source but only "mixed".

  • Overall, we rate Al Jazeera Left-Center biased, based on story selection that slightly favors the left, and Mixed for factual reporting due to failed fact checks that were not corrected and misleading extreme editorial bias that favors Qatar.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/al-jazeera/

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 08:12

Read something interesting about Al Jazeera in The Telegraph today, as part of a wider article:

Then there is the issue of Al Jazeera itself.

Viewers of the network’s English news channel or website might detect a general Western-critical perspective, but rarely anything improper. The Arabic channel, however, is very different.

Run from Qatar, whose rulers are often criticised for showing sympathy to the Muslim Brotherhood, on whose principles Hamas is based, the channel has become an unofficial mouthpiece for the terror group since Oct 7 2023.

Criticism of Hamas or Qatar is almost entirely absent – indeed, live broadcasts have been cut off when interviewees strayed into dangerous territory.

Meanwhile, formal announcements from the Hamas politburo often air on Al Jazeera first.

None of this is new: the channel strongly supported Hamas as far back as the 2006 elections, after which its offices in Ramallah were vandalised by infuriated supporters of Fatah, the dominant Palestinian movement in the West Bank.

During the 2011 Arab Spring, Al Jazeera angered Arab governments with its apparent support for Islamist challengers.

The network is detested in many capitals of the Middle East, and there were even reports of critical slogans voiced against it during recent protests in Gaza.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/08/11/israel-believes-al-jazeera-journalist-killed-gaza-terrorist/

OhMaria2 · 12/08/2025 08:15

Is it because of things like blockading food and preventing the starving people from fishing off their own coast? Or murdering ambulance workers and lying about it? Bombing churches and hospitals and pretending its because they're full of terrorists? Stuff like that? You're right, so unfair

OhCalmTheFuckDownMargaret · 12/08/2025 09:53

GladioliGreen · 06/08/2025 21:50

On October 7, Hamas killed 1,200 Israelis, many through direct atrocities. Adjusted for population, that would be the equivalent of over 40,000 Americans or more than 8,000 Britons killed in a single day.

Israel have killed 60,000 people as a conservative estimate. That's the equivalent of 270,000 Israelis, 2.1million Britons or a staggering 10.2million Americans.

The equivalent of 8.1million displaced Israelis, 63 million Britons or 309million Americans.

Is it any wonder that they are being loudly condemned?

Quite. Perhaps they could let the world's media in seeing as they are so desperate to convince the outside world the criticism is unjust.

99bottlesofkombucha · 12/08/2025 09:55

OhCalmTheFuckDownMargaret · 12/08/2025 09:53

Quite. Perhaps they could let the world's media in seeing as they are so desperate to convince the outside world the criticism is unjust.

And kill less journalists. And not tell journalists they are letting enter that the max food they can take in is 7 pounds. So many options for the idf and Israeli govt. They are however staying fixed on let’s starve and kill them all.

DrPrunesqualer · 12/08/2025 10:02

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 08:07

Al Jazeera by comparison have a "slight to moderate" liberal bias.

They are not found to be "mostly factual" like the above source but only "mixed".

  • Overall, we rate Al Jazeera Left-Center biased, based on story selection that slightly favors the left, and Mixed for factual reporting due to failed fact checks that were not corrected and misleading extreme editorial bias that favors Qatar.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/al-jazeera/

Thanks Twigs
I find this media bias website extremely helpful aswell.

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 10:04

OhCalmTheFuckDownMargaret · 12/08/2025 09:53

Quite. Perhaps they could let the world's media in seeing as they are so desperate to convince the outside world the criticism is unjust.

They are going to start allowing foreign journalists in - Netanyahu announced it at his press conference on Sunday ( under the supervision of the IDF for safety reasons)

DrPrunesqualer · 12/08/2025 10:17

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 10:04

They are going to start allowing foreign journalists in - Netanyahu announced it at his press conference on Sunday ( under the supervision of the IDF for safety reasons)

That isn’t really letting them have free journalism though is it. They will be only allowed to see what Israel wants them to see…so more propaganda then

Given the IDF have killed well over 200 it should be down to them to not kill innocents
and allow journalists to report what they want and what they see freely and without any constraints