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Conflict in the Middle East

No military is more publicly condemned today than the Israel Defense Forces.

303 replies

ConscientiousObserver · 06/08/2025 21:36

Extremely informative article by Yoav Gallant, Former Israeli Defence Minister and John Spencer, Executive Director of the Urban Warfare Institute.

No military is more publicly condemned today than the Israel Defense Forces. Yet behind closed doors, few are more studied. Western generals and defense officials routinely seek Israeli briefings, request access to doctrine and tactics, and pursue cooperation on training and technology. These efforts continue even as their political counterparts issue statements of moral outrage and condemnation. The contradiction reflects more than a double standard. It reveals a deeper divide between political perception and military reality, between external messaging and internal understanding, between illusion and experience.

Since the war in Gaza began, Israel has hosted dozens of foreign delegations. Military officers and defense officials observe Israeli operations firsthand. They ask technical questions about targeting processes, coordination between air and ground forces, real-time intelligence integration, and how combat units distinguish between civilians and combatants under fire. Some return weeks later to formalize cooperation on areas ranging from tunnel warfare to hostage recovery to civilian harm mitigation. Meanwhile, many of their political counterparts deliver rehearsed remarks emphasizing restraint, proportionality, and civilian protection, often with little connection to the operational context or ground realities they were just briefed on.

This is not just political inconsistency. It is strategic dissonance. War is never clean. Urban warfare against a hybrid enemy embedded in civilian areas is among the most complex challenges modern democracies will face. Yet the public discussion is often dominated by expectations of precision and perfection that no military force can guarantee. In many capitals, political performance overrides professional understanding.

In Gaza, Hamas constructed more than 300 miles of fortified tunnels beneath civilian infrastructure. It operates from hospitals, schools, and mosques by design, not necessity. Early in the war, the IDF learned a simple rule: if you want to find a tunnel, look beneath a school. If you are searching for an enemy headquarters, start under a mosque. If you suspect an arms depot, check the basement of a hospital. This is not coincidence; it is a consistent, deliberate tactic. Hamas has blocked evacuations, placed command centers inside humanitarian zones, and taken hundreds of hostages. These are not side effects of war. They are deliberate features of a strategy built to paralyze democracies, provoke condemnation, and weaponize civilian suffering. The targeting of civilians is not incidental. It is essential to Hamas’s operational concept.

Many political leaders respond by invoking past conflicts. They reference battles in Mosul, Aleppo, Fallujah, or Raqqa, assuming these comparisons provide meaningful precedent. But most of these conflicts did not involve an adversary intentionally preventing civilians from leaving combat zones. Most did not involve hundreds of hostages dispersed across a dense urban battlefield. Most involved insurgencies, not foreign-backed terror armies. Many involved military forces that did not follow the same standards of precision and accountability expected of Israel. These differences matter. Failing to account for them leads to flawed analysis and unrealistic policy prescriptions.

These dynamics are not limited to Gaza. Across the region, similar tactics are emerging. In southern Syria, the Julani regime has carried out atrocities against the Druze population while embedded within civilian areas. These acts of cruelty follow the same playbook used by Hamas. Yet few international voices draw consistent lines between them. This silence reflects another gap: the unwillingness to apply standards evenly when the political costs differ. Condemnation is directed at those who can hear it. Those who operate beyond the reach of democratic norms often face no scrutiny at all.

While calls for humanitarian concern grow louder, few political leaders press for solutions that would actually reduce civilian harm. Egypt continues to keep its border with Gaza closed, despite being the sole neighboring country uninvolved in the conflict and capable of providing immediate relief to civilians seeking safety. Evacuation routes remain blocked. Temporary refuge for civilians is politically possible but diplomatically ignored. Not a single major European government or United Nations body has mounted sustained pressure on Cairo to open the Rafah crossing or to establish a displaced persons or humanitarian zone a few kilometers into the Sinai. Instead, criticism centers on Israel, the only actor currently conducting both combat and humanitarian operations in the same battlespace. The imbalance distorts both perception and policy.

This is not the first time democracies have confronted hard choices. The wars of the twentieth century were waged with heavy costs. Civilian casualties were tragically high. But the principle of civilian protection was strengthened over time, especially with the Geneva Conventions adopted after World War II. Those conventions remain the foundation of the modern laws of war. They prohibit intentional attacks on civilians and impose a duty to take feasible precautions to avoid civilian harm. But they do not demand perfection, nor do they outlaw war itself. When adversaries exploit civilians to provoke condemnation and delay operations, the responsibility lies with those who commit the violations—not those who attempt to respond within the law.

The numbers bear remembering. Two million civilians died in the Korean War, averaging over 50,000 per month. More than ten thousand were killed in the liberation of a single city, Mosul. Hundreds of thousands died during military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Cities were flattened in the campaign against ISIS. These are not historical footnotes. They are reminders of what war has always entailed, especially in dense urban environments. Today, only one military—the IDF—is expected to achieve battlefield success without error, without civilian harm, and without criticism, even as it faces enemies who deliberately try to make this impossible.

Despite this, militaries around the world continue to seek Israeli knowledge. Governments initiate formal cooperation agreements. Officers train in Israeli facilities. Procurement programs focus on Israeli defense technologies developed through experience in real combat conditions. These are not isolated interactions. They are serious, structured engagements based on the recognition that similar wars may lie ahead. European and NATO militaries understand that future threats may look more like Hamas than like conventional armies. They are preparing accordingly.
This is not a blanket condemnation of all political leaders. Many do understand what modern war demands and the reality Israel is confronting. Nor is the political-professional divide a one-way street. War is ultimately the pursuit of political objectives, and in a democracy, those objectives are set by political leaders based on the best advice of their military advisors. At the same time, senior military leaders must understand the domestic, international, and geopolitical factors that frame and constrain the use of force. Political leaders cannot speak about war without accounting for context, history, strategy, tactics, and operational reality. And military leaders cannot speak about war without understanding the political environment that defines it. The tension between political and professional perspectives is not a flaw. It is a feature of democratic governance. But it must be informed, mutual, and honest.

Unfortunately, that equilibrium is too often lost. Political leaders too often avoid difficult truths. Some present war as inherently unjust. Others suggest that all violence can be avoided with diplomacy or restraint. Few acknowledge that, in extreme cases, force may be both necessary and lawful. This avoidance does not strengthen democracy. It weakens it. It misleads citizens, erodes deterrence, and gives adversaries greater freedom of action.

In Israel, such illusions are not possible. Conflict is measured in meters. Homes sit a few hundred yards from hostile territory. Missiles arrive in seconds. Tunnels turn rear areas into front lines. Civilian buildings become military objectives by design. This is not theoretical. It is a daily reality.
On October 7, Hamas killed 1,200 Israelis, many through direct atrocities. Adjusted for population, that would be the equivalent of over 40,000 Americans or more than 8,000 Britons killed in a single day. International law permits self-defense, even in war. It also permits the use of force against military objectives. Proportionality accounts for the presence of civilians, even when they are unlawfully placed at risk by those who violate the laws of war. It requires that civilian harm not be excessive in relation to the anticipated military advantage and that every feasible precaution be taken to minimize that harm. Israel has done both.
Democracies must regain strategic clarity. They cannot afford to treat war as a morality play while military officers prepare for reality. They must explain to their populations that war, when necessary, is not only legal but at times morally required. They must recognize that the expectations placed on allies today may become the burdens they bear tomorrow. The next war will not wait for consensus. It will demand readiness, resolve, and truth.

If democratic leaders continue to separate what they know privately from what they say publicly, the result will not be greater morality. It will be greater suffering and failure. Silence will not deter enemies. Illusion will not protect civilians. And condemnation, without context or consistency, will not produce peace.

The hard lessons of war must be faced, not avoided. Military professionals understand this. It is time for political leaders to do the same.
General Yoav Gallant, former Israeli Minister of Defense and decorated IDF commander, shares strategic insights on leadership, security, and geopolitics—drawing from nearly five decades at the forefront of Israel’s national defense.

John Spencer is Executive Director of the Urban Warfare Institute and co-author of Understanding Urban Warfare. A leading expert on urban warfare, he advised senior U.S. Army leaders through strategic roles from the Pentagon to West Point.

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29
CyberStranger · 15/08/2025 15:41

SummerFeverVenice · 15/08/2025 13:57

They might have been if they had not resorted to terrorism and war crimes.

Armed resistance to an armed occupation is legal in principle by international law as the pp pointed out.

However, as soon as the armed resistance systematically commits war crimes and/or terrorist attacks, the group is no longer legitimate as ‘freedom fighters’ but become and most often stay criminal terrorists.

However, some terrorist groups in modern history have reformed themselves into legitimate freedom fighters, armies and political or even ruling parties of government (ie ANC, Ghandism, Haganah, PLO, Sinn Fein) The common factor amongst all these groups is the cause was both just and was ultimately fulfilled, negating the original reasons for armed resistance in the first place.

Edited

Hamas have been committing terrorist attacks for 30 years.

Did you consider them ‘freedom fighters’ before Oct 7th?

SummerFeverVenice · 15/08/2025 15:54

CyberStranger · 15/08/2025 15:41

Hamas have been committing terrorist attacks for 30 years.

Did you consider them ‘freedom fighters’ before Oct 7th?

I was talking in general terms as to how the law on armed resistance to an armed occupation isn’t a blank cheque to resist by any means and that terrorism is not legal or excused by the fact a group is resisting an occupation.

Did you consider them [Hamas] ‘freedom fighters’ before Oct 7th?
No and here is why-
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/97378

Israel National News

History of Hamas Murderous Attacks

Hamas has set the destruction of Israel as its goal. Between September 2000 and April 2004, Hamas perpetrated 425 terrorist attacks against Israel and murdered 377 Israelis - nine every month.

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/97378

SummerFeverVenice · 15/08/2025 15:56

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 20:44

They all have bias but they don't all have affiliations with Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jhad like the Quds News link you posted - which also scored low for factual reporting and with low credibility.

So it's not ironic to suggest people would be better off looking elsewhere for their information - more like sensible.

For example, the BBC has a left wing bias but scores high for factual reporting and also has high credibility.

The Times of Israel is found to have a left-centre bias but scores high for factual reporting and also has high credibility.

The Guardian has a left centre bias but scores mixed for factual reporting and has medium credibility.

The Telegraph has a right bias but scores mixed for factual reporting and has medium credibility.

Personally, I wouldn't be happy getting my information from any source that scored lower than mixed for factual reporting or lower than medium for credibility. "Low" and "Low" is just ridiculously low standards of journalistic integrity.

I use the factual accuracy & bias in media checker all the time too!

It really helps me narrow down sources of information.

SummerFeverVenice · 15/08/2025 15:59

HellsBalls · 12/08/2025 20:44

What would the media make of this story?
Visibly armed terrorists, dressed as aid workers, in a marked aid car.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/s/902WhmS8vH

This is old news. When the WCK strikes happened, all the dead were unarmed aid workers. IDF said they’d seen a few armed men around the vans before they set off and that is why they did the strikes. The WCK responded that those men were their depot security they had hired to prevent theft from their aid warehouses and that none of these security guards had gotten into the vans, but had stayed behind to do their job…guard the aid.

SummerFeverVenice · 15/08/2025 16:02

SomeWomanSomewhere · 12/08/2025 22:52

You know, if Israel and its army don't want to be so "unfairly" condemned what would genuinely help is them not constantly saying completely unhinged stuff:

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu tells i24 he feels he is on a “historic and spiritual mission,” and that he is “very” attached to the vision of Greater Israel, which includes areas slated for a future Palestinian state and possibly also areas that are part of present-day Jordan and Egypt. [...] Gal also asks the premier during the interview if he feels he is on a mission on behalf of the Jewish people. Netanyahu answers that he is “on a mission of generations — there are generations of Jews that dreamt of coming here and generations of Jews who will come after us.”(Source: Times of Israel, https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblogentry/netanyahu-says-hes-on-a-historic-and-spiritual-mission-endorses-vision-of-greater-israel/)

If this were a friend of mine I would tell them "I love you and you are losing the fucking plot, mate!".

We are somehow discussing whether or not unconfirmed sympathies should get Palestinian journalists killed while the Israeli PM just gets to openly go full on megalomania.

Edited

Totally agree!
It just reeks of kill them all and let God sort the innocent from the guilty. No place for that when talking about civilians.

Clavinova · 16/08/2025 20:16

SummerFeverVenice · 15/08/2025 15:59

This is old news. When the WCK strikes happened, all the dead were unarmed aid workers. IDF said they’d seen a few armed men around the vans before they set off and that is why they did the strikes. The WCK responded that those men were their depot security they had hired to prevent theft from their aid warehouses and that none of these security guards had gotten into the vans, but had stayed behind to do their job…guard the aid.

This is old news
The WCK responded that those men were their depot security

Not according to this statement on their website (you are thinking of a different incident);

12 August 2025
World Central Kitchen Condemns Impersonation of Aid Workers in Gaza

Earlier this week, a group of armed persons were seen in Gaza posing as World Central Kitchen team members. WCK was contacted by Israel's Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT), and confirmed the vehicle and persons of interest were not affiliated with WCK. We strongly condemn anyone posing as WCK or other humanitarians as this endangers civilians and aid workers. The safety and security of our teams are our top priority.

https://wck.org/en-us/news/gaza-update-8-12

SummerFeverVenice · 17/08/2025 14:07

Clavinova · 16/08/2025 20:16

This is old news
The WCK responded that those men were their depot security

Not according to this statement on their website (you are thinking of a different incident);

12 August 2025
World Central Kitchen Condemns Impersonation of Aid Workers in Gaza

Earlier this week, a group of armed persons were seen in Gaza posing as World Central Kitchen team members. WCK was contacted by Israel's Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT), and confirmed the vehicle and persons of interest were not affiliated with WCK. We strongly condemn anyone posing as WCK or other humanitarians as this endangers civilians and aid workers. The safety and security of our teams are our top priority.

https://wck.org/en-us/news/gaza-update-8-12

Wow, I had no idea it was new footage. I was thinking of a different incident. Thank you for pointing that out.

SammyScrounge · 22/08/2025 01:32

99bottlesofkombucha · 09/08/2025 23:19

They know. Thats why the suicide rate in the Israeli army is up- they can’t see any other way out of it to get past this horror they are part of it.
if your own soldiers are increasingly committing suicide because it seems a better alternative to starving and blowing up children, then no criticism of this military is enough. Let’s say this all gets sorted out- imagine meeting an Israeli travelling in a few years and hanging out they said they’d been doing their national service on 2024/2025. Wouldn’t your food turn to sawdust in your mouth and you’d need to leave? It’s not every individual soldiers fault, but it would be hard to look at them much less keep hanging out or keep your appetite.

I'd feel even worse if I had encountered a Hamas terrorist and remembered what he'd done.

99bottlesofkombucha · 22/08/2025 03:01

SammyScrounge · 22/08/2025 01:32

I'd feel even worse if I had encountered a Hamas terrorist and remembered what he'd done.

You can relax, there were approx 6,000 militants crossed the border for the attack, and since over 50,000 gazans have died since, the chance that you will is pretty low. Whereas we’ve all met young Israeli adults traveling and military service is compulsory for most in Israel.

Twiglets1 · 22/08/2025 05:58

99bottlesofkombucha · 22/08/2025 03:01

You can relax, there were approx 6,000 militants crossed the border for the attack, and since over 50,000 gazans have died since, the chance that you will is pretty low. Whereas we’ve all met young Israeli adults traveling and military service is compulsory for most in Israel.

Hamas have recruited new young terrorists you know.

TulipLavender · 22/08/2025 07:11

Twiglets1 · 22/08/2025 05:58

Hamas have recruited new young terrorists you know.

Yes I'm sure. Israel are running a very effective Hamas terrorist recruitment campaign called 'I've killed your family, blown up your house, destroyed your school, university and future...so whatch you gonna do now?'

Twiglets1 · 22/08/2025 07:33

TulipLavender · 22/08/2025 07:11

Yes I'm sure. Israel are running a very effective Hamas terrorist recruitment campaign called 'I've killed your family, blown up your house, destroyed your school, university and future...so whatch you gonna do now?'

We agree then that new Hamas militants have been recruited so that is how there are unfortunately many Hamas militants still alive.

It’s impossible for the IDF to kill them all. What they can do is kill the leaders with the military expertise, destroy the tunnels they use to operate & store weapons, reduce their opportunities for funding, seize most of their weapons and make it impossible
for them to continue operating as a terrorist organisation. In the end they will have to surrender and it really shouldn’t be taking this long.

TulipLavender · 22/08/2025 09:19

Twiglets1 · 22/08/2025 07:33

We agree then that new Hamas militants have been recruited so that is how there are unfortunately many Hamas militants still alive.

It’s impossible for the IDF to kill them all. What they can do is kill the leaders with the military expertise, destroy the tunnels they use to operate & store weapons, reduce their opportunities for funding, seize most of their weapons and make it impossible
for them to continue operating as a terrorist organisation. In the end they will have to surrender and it really shouldn’t be taking this long.

Has that not been done already? Israeli news shows that IDF Chiefs said that Hamas had been militarily defeated back in September 2024.

What future are Gazas being offered other than taking up arms for their freedom. Even if they are all forced to leave the territory - what has happened must have radicalised the entire population creating such instability for Israel for decades to come. As long as there is an occupation and no hope for a viable Palestinian statehood providing dignity and prosperity its people, there will be no peace and stability for Israel.

And the people of the world have very much turned against Israel due to their response to October 7th. If there is any future of democracy in the US - the US will no longer support Israel as they have done. Recent polling now shows that a majority of Americans now have a somewhat or very unfavorable opinion of Israel.

Twiglets1 · 22/08/2025 10:12

TulipLavender · 22/08/2025 09:19

Has that not been done already? Israeli news shows that IDF Chiefs said that Hamas had been militarily defeated back in September 2024.

What future are Gazas being offered other than taking up arms for their freedom. Even if they are all forced to leave the territory - what has happened must have radicalised the entire population creating such instability for Israel for decades to come. As long as there is an occupation and no hope for a viable Palestinian statehood providing dignity and prosperity its people, there will be no peace and stability for Israel.

And the people of the world have very much turned against Israel due to their response to October 7th. If there is any future of democracy in the US - the US will no longer support Israel as they have done. Recent polling now shows that a majority of Americans now have a somewhat or very unfavorable opinion of Israel.

Hamas have effectively been defeated as they have been very much weakened since 7/10 and most of their top leaders have been killed. There are still many people willing to fight for them though it seems.

What you say makes a case for a 2 state solution not being possible and so you agree with Netanyahu on one thing at least - it couldn't work if what has happened must have radicalised the entire population

TulipLavender · 22/08/2025 10:31

Absolutely not and i find the implications of what you are saying to be horrendous.

What is needed is a massive Truth and Reconciliation process or Justice and Reconciliation process similar to what took place in Rwanda after the genocide or in South Africa but on the scale never seen before.

If Israel determines that 2 states is impossible then there can be one state with equal rights for all.

I keep saying this but perpetual occupation and subjugation of the Palestinian people and the theft of their land is not an option. I honestly cant believe that anyone can argue otherwise.

Twiglets1 · 22/08/2025 10:53

TulipLavender · 22/08/2025 10:31

Absolutely not and i find the implications of what you are saying to be horrendous.

What is needed is a massive Truth and Reconciliation process or Justice and Reconciliation process similar to what took place in Rwanda after the genocide or in South Africa but on the scale never seen before.

If Israel determines that 2 states is impossible then there can be one state with equal rights for all.

I keep saying this but perpetual occupation and subjugation of the Palestinian people and the theft of their land is not an option. I honestly cant believe that anyone can argue otherwise.

How am I arguing otherwise?

Just pointing out that you are echoing Netanyahu's thoughts that the whole population has been radicalised.

Your words: what has happened must have radicalised the entire population creating such instability for Israel for decades to come.

TulipLavender · 22/08/2025 11:02

Twiglets1 · 22/08/2025 10:53

How am I arguing otherwise?

Just pointing out that you are echoing Netanyahu's thoughts that the whole population has been radicalised.

Your words: what has happened must have radicalised the entire population creating such instability for Israel for decades to come.

I stand by my words. I think it's likely that they will have been radicalised.

I think there is evidence that people in Israel have also been radicalised. Other threads have referrenced the poll conducted by aChord Center at Hebrew University that 64% of Israelis believe there are no innocent people in Gaza.

Twiglets1 · 22/08/2025 11:09

TulipLavender · 22/08/2025 11:02

I stand by my words. I think it's likely that they will have been radicalised.

I think there is evidence that people in Israel have also been radicalised. Other threads have referrenced the poll conducted by aChord Center at Hebrew University that 64% of Israelis believe there are no innocent people in Gaza.

So if the entire Gazan population have been radicalised as per your comment, I guess you don't think a 2 state solution is possible?

Agree by the way that a lot of Israelis living in that area will also have been radicalised by the cycles of violence.

TulipLavender · 22/08/2025 13:04

Twiglets1 · 22/08/2025 11:09

So if the entire Gazan population have been radicalised as per your comment, I guess you don't think a 2 state solution is possible?

Agree by the way that a lot of Israelis living in that area will also have been radicalised by the cycles of violence.

Please see my previous comments. Whether its 2 states or 1 state should be determined by the people involved with Palestinians having a proportionate say. I think Israel are obviously trying to rule out the possibility of 2 state solution which is sad because i dont think they want 1 state with everyone having equal rights so they are deciding to endlessly subjugate, take land and oppress indefinately.

I think that the world should not allow that and Israel should be prevented from carrying on to do that by any means.

Radicalisation on both sides needs to be addressed through a massive Truth, Justice and Reconciliation process to enable Israelis and Palestinians to live together peacefully.

What do you think should happen?

99bottlesofkombucha · 22/08/2025 13:19

Twiglets1 · 22/08/2025 05:58

Hamas have recruited new young terrorists you know.

And what the fuck are they doing exactly? Sending some futile fire back at the Israeli army? They were not there on October 7, they are not starving and bombing women and children day in day out or even once, they are entirely innocent of genocide. Totally ok to meet one of those if they’re still alive, except for the incredible tragedy that is their young life.

Twiglets1 · 22/08/2025 15:16

99bottlesofkombucha · 22/08/2025 13:19

And what the fuck are they doing exactly? Sending some futile fire back at the Israeli army? They were not there on October 7, they are not starving and bombing women and children day in day out or even once, they are entirely innocent of genocide. Totally ok to meet one of those if they’re still alive, except for the incredible tragedy that is their young life.

What?

TulipLavender · 22/08/2025 15:58

Twiglets1 · 22/08/2025 15:16

What?

I think the pp's point is that the new recruits to Hamas since Oct 7 have not committed any acts of terror or civilian injuries. They are just fighting an enemy army trying to occupy their land.

Twiglets1 · 22/08/2025 16:17

TulipLavender · 22/08/2025 15:58

I think the pp's point is that the new recruits to Hamas since Oct 7 have not committed any acts of terror or civilian injuries. They are just fighting an enemy army trying to occupy their land.

So? The only reason some of them haven't committed any acts of terror or civilian injuries yet is because they haven't had the opportunity to.

Excuse me for not crying over terrorists wasting their lives.

TulipLavender · 22/08/2025 16:48

Twiglets1 · 22/08/2025 16:17

So? The only reason some of them haven't committed any acts of terror or civilian injuries yet is because they haven't had the opportunity to.

Excuse me for not crying over terrorists wasting their lives.

This wasnt the part of the thread that im interested in participating in. But im not sure you are following.

One pp posted that they wouldn't like to meet an IDF soldier in future.
Another PP retorted that they wouldn't want to meet a Hamas terrorist after what they did on Oct 7.
Then another PP said that chances of that were very low so they shouldn’t worry.
You then interjected that Hamas were recruiting more.
That same PP that you responded to said - well what have the new recruits done.
You then questioned what they meant and i tried to explain what i thought @99bottlesofkombucha meant.

Noone is asking you to cry over Hamas militants.
Perhaps just to recognise that the fear of meeting an IDF soldier who may have participated in a war crime is legitimate because its a plausible possibility. The idea that someone posting here would maybe encounter a Hamas terrorist who had engaged in war crimes or injury to civilians is not plausible.

keeeymin · 22/08/2025 17:05

TulipLavender · 22/08/2025 10:31

Absolutely not and i find the implications of what you are saying to be horrendous.

What is needed is a massive Truth and Reconciliation process or Justice and Reconciliation process similar to what took place in Rwanda after the genocide or in South Africa but on the scale never seen before.

If Israel determines that 2 states is impossible then there can be one state with equal rights for all.

I keep saying this but perpetual occupation and subjugation of the Palestinian people and the theft of their land is not an option. I honestly cant believe that anyone can argue otherwise.

Which one state? What would happen to Israel in this scenario?