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Conflict in the Middle East

No military is more publicly condemned today than the Israel Defense Forces.

303 replies

ConscientiousObserver · 06/08/2025 21:36

Extremely informative article by Yoav Gallant, Former Israeli Defence Minister and John Spencer, Executive Director of the Urban Warfare Institute.

No military is more publicly condemned today than the Israel Defense Forces. Yet behind closed doors, few are more studied. Western generals and defense officials routinely seek Israeli briefings, request access to doctrine and tactics, and pursue cooperation on training and technology. These efforts continue even as their political counterparts issue statements of moral outrage and condemnation. The contradiction reflects more than a double standard. It reveals a deeper divide between political perception and military reality, between external messaging and internal understanding, between illusion and experience.

Since the war in Gaza began, Israel has hosted dozens of foreign delegations. Military officers and defense officials observe Israeli operations firsthand. They ask technical questions about targeting processes, coordination between air and ground forces, real-time intelligence integration, and how combat units distinguish between civilians and combatants under fire. Some return weeks later to formalize cooperation on areas ranging from tunnel warfare to hostage recovery to civilian harm mitigation. Meanwhile, many of their political counterparts deliver rehearsed remarks emphasizing restraint, proportionality, and civilian protection, often with little connection to the operational context or ground realities they were just briefed on.

This is not just political inconsistency. It is strategic dissonance. War is never clean. Urban warfare against a hybrid enemy embedded in civilian areas is among the most complex challenges modern democracies will face. Yet the public discussion is often dominated by expectations of precision and perfection that no military force can guarantee. In many capitals, political performance overrides professional understanding.

In Gaza, Hamas constructed more than 300 miles of fortified tunnels beneath civilian infrastructure. It operates from hospitals, schools, and mosques by design, not necessity. Early in the war, the IDF learned a simple rule: if you want to find a tunnel, look beneath a school. If you are searching for an enemy headquarters, start under a mosque. If you suspect an arms depot, check the basement of a hospital. This is not coincidence; it is a consistent, deliberate tactic. Hamas has blocked evacuations, placed command centers inside humanitarian zones, and taken hundreds of hostages. These are not side effects of war. They are deliberate features of a strategy built to paralyze democracies, provoke condemnation, and weaponize civilian suffering. The targeting of civilians is not incidental. It is essential to Hamas’s operational concept.

Many political leaders respond by invoking past conflicts. They reference battles in Mosul, Aleppo, Fallujah, or Raqqa, assuming these comparisons provide meaningful precedent. But most of these conflicts did not involve an adversary intentionally preventing civilians from leaving combat zones. Most did not involve hundreds of hostages dispersed across a dense urban battlefield. Most involved insurgencies, not foreign-backed terror armies. Many involved military forces that did not follow the same standards of precision and accountability expected of Israel. These differences matter. Failing to account for them leads to flawed analysis and unrealistic policy prescriptions.

These dynamics are not limited to Gaza. Across the region, similar tactics are emerging. In southern Syria, the Julani regime has carried out atrocities against the Druze population while embedded within civilian areas. These acts of cruelty follow the same playbook used by Hamas. Yet few international voices draw consistent lines between them. This silence reflects another gap: the unwillingness to apply standards evenly when the political costs differ. Condemnation is directed at those who can hear it. Those who operate beyond the reach of democratic norms often face no scrutiny at all.

While calls for humanitarian concern grow louder, few political leaders press for solutions that would actually reduce civilian harm. Egypt continues to keep its border with Gaza closed, despite being the sole neighboring country uninvolved in the conflict and capable of providing immediate relief to civilians seeking safety. Evacuation routes remain blocked. Temporary refuge for civilians is politically possible but diplomatically ignored. Not a single major European government or United Nations body has mounted sustained pressure on Cairo to open the Rafah crossing or to establish a displaced persons or humanitarian zone a few kilometers into the Sinai. Instead, criticism centers on Israel, the only actor currently conducting both combat and humanitarian operations in the same battlespace. The imbalance distorts both perception and policy.

This is not the first time democracies have confronted hard choices. The wars of the twentieth century were waged with heavy costs. Civilian casualties were tragically high. But the principle of civilian protection was strengthened over time, especially with the Geneva Conventions adopted after World War II. Those conventions remain the foundation of the modern laws of war. They prohibit intentional attacks on civilians and impose a duty to take feasible precautions to avoid civilian harm. But they do not demand perfection, nor do they outlaw war itself. When adversaries exploit civilians to provoke condemnation and delay operations, the responsibility lies with those who commit the violations—not those who attempt to respond within the law.

The numbers bear remembering. Two million civilians died in the Korean War, averaging over 50,000 per month. More than ten thousand were killed in the liberation of a single city, Mosul. Hundreds of thousands died during military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Cities were flattened in the campaign against ISIS. These are not historical footnotes. They are reminders of what war has always entailed, especially in dense urban environments. Today, only one military—the IDF—is expected to achieve battlefield success without error, without civilian harm, and without criticism, even as it faces enemies who deliberately try to make this impossible.

Despite this, militaries around the world continue to seek Israeli knowledge. Governments initiate formal cooperation agreements. Officers train in Israeli facilities. Procurement programs focus on Israeli defense technologies developed through experience in real combat conditions. These are not isolated interactions. They are serious, structured engagements based on the recognition that similar wars may lie ahead. European and NATO militaries understand that future threats may look more like Hamas than like conventional armies. They are preparing accordingly.
This is not a blanket condemnation of all political leaders. Many do understand what modern war demands and the reality Israel is confronting. Nor is the political-professional divide a one-way street. War is ultimately the pursuit of political objectives, and in a democracy, those objectives are set by political leaders based on the best advice of their military advisors. At the same time, senior military leaders must understand the domestic, international, and geopolitical factors that frame and constrain the use of force. Political leaders cannot speak about war without accounting for context, history, strategy, tactics, and operational reality. And military leaders cannot speak about war without understanding the political environment that defines it. The tension between political and professional perspectives is not a flaw. It is a feature of democratic governance. But it must be informed, mutual, and honest.

Unfortunately, that equilibrium is too often lost. Political leaders too often avoid difficult truths. Some present war as inherently unjust. Others suggest that all violence can be avoided with diplomacy or restraint. Few acknowledge that, in extreme cases, force may be both necessary and lawful. This avoidance does not strengthen democracy. It weakens it. It misleads citizens, erodes deterrence, and gives adversaries greater freedom of action.

In Israel, such illusions are not possible. Conflict is measured in meters. Homes sit a few hundred yards from hostile territory. Missiles arrive in seconds. Tunnels turn rear areas into front lines. Civilian buildings become military objectives by design. This is not theoretical. It is a daily reality.
On October 7, Hamas killed 1,200 Israelis, many through direct atrocities. Adjusted for population, that would be the equivalent of over 40,000 Americans or more than 8,000 Britons killed in a single day. International law permits self-defense, even in war. It also permits the use of force against military objectives. Proportionality accounts for the presence of civilians, even when they are unlawfully placed at risk by those who violate the laws of war. It requires that civilian harm not be excessive in relation to the anticipated military advantage and that every feasible precaution be taken to minimize that harm. Israel has done both.
Democracies must regain strategic clarity. They cannot afford to treat war as a morality play while military officers prepare for reality. They must explain to their populations that war, when necessary, is not only legal but at times morally required. They must recognize that the expectations placed on allies today may become the burdens they bear tomorrow. The next war will not wait for consensus. It will demand readiness, resolve, and truth.

If democratic leaders continue to separate what they know privately from what they say publicly, the result will not be greater morality. It will be greater suffering and failure. Silence will not deter enemies. Illusion will not protect civilians. And condemnation, without context or consistency, will not produce peace.

The hard lessons of war must be faced, not avoided. Military professionals understand this. It is time for political leaders to do the same.
General Yoav Gallant, former Israeli Minister of Defense and decorated IDF commander, shares strategic insights on leadership, security, and geopolitics—drawing from nearly five decades at the forefront of Israel’s national defense.

John Spencer is Executive Director of the Urban Warfare Institute and co-author of Understanding Urban Warfare. A leading expert on urban warfare, he advised senior U.S. Army leaders through strategic roles from the Pentagon to West Point.

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29
BelleHathor · 12/08/2025 20:11

The ironic thing being that everyone and every outlet has bias....

https://www.cjr.org/innovations/measure-media-bias-partisan.php

The armchair academics
"Amateur attempts at such tools already exist, and have found plenty of fans. Google “media bias,” and you’ll find Media Bias/Fact Check, run by armchair media analyst Dave Van Zandt. The site’s methodology is simple: Van Zandt and his team rate each outlet from 0 to 10 on the categories of biased wording and headlines, factuality and sourcing, story choices (“does the source report news from both sides”), and political affiliation."

Media Bias Fact Check is owned and run by a single man in North Carolina....... "Media Bias Fact Check LLC is funded. MBFC is a sole proprietor limited liability company (LLC) held by Dave Van Zandt in North Carolina"
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/funding/

We can probably measure media bias. But do we want to?

Twitter is excellent at capturing a moment in time—and that’s part of its problem. On the day Special Counsel Robert Mueller announced charges against Paul Manafort in the Trump-Russia investigation, some people on Twitter took perverse glee in sharing...

https://www.cjr.org/innovations/measure-media-bias-partisan.php

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 20:44

BelleHathor · 12/08/2025 20:11

The ironic thing being that everyone and every outlet has bias....

https://www.cjr.org/innovations/measure-media-bias-partisan.php

The armchair academics
"Amateur attempts at such tools already exist, and have found plenty of fans. Google “media bias,” and you’ll find Media Bias/Fact Check, run by armchair media analyst Dave Van Zandt. The site’s methodology is simple: Van Zandt and his team rate each outlet from 0 to 10 on the categories of biased wording and headlines, factuality and sourcing, story choices (“does the source report news from both sides”), and political affiliation."

Media Bias Fact Check is owned and run by a single man in North Carolina....... "Media Bias Fact Check LLC is funded. MBFC is a sole proprietor limited liability company (LLC) held by Dave Van Zandt in North Carolina"
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/funding/

They all have bias but they don't all have affiliations with Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jhad like the Quds News link you posted - which also scored low for factual reporting and with low credibility.

So it's not ironic to suggest people would be better off looking elsewhere for their information - more like sensible.

For example, the BBC has a left wing bias but scores high for factual reporting and also has high credibility.

The Times of Israel is found to have a left-centre bias but scores high for factual reporting and also has high credibility.

The Guardian has a left centre bias but scores mixed for factual reporting and has medium credibility.

The Telegraph has a right bias but scores mixed for factual reporting and has medium credibility.

Personally, I wouldn't be happy getting my information from any source that scored lower than mixed for factual reporting or lower than medium for credibility. "Low" and "Low" is just ridiculously low standards of journalistic integrity.

HellsBalls · 12/08/2025 20:44

What would the media make of this story?
Visibly armed terrorists, dressed as aid workers, in a marked aid car.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/s/902WhmS8vH

BelleHathor · 12/08/2025 21:02

Here is the 2015 Associated Press article used by the "one man band" Dave Van Zandt or as the Columbia Review put it "armchair expert" to rate the Quds Network.
https://apnews.com/national-national-general-news-ac9819f1d94c4733bbc54932941f509e

"The Quds News Network, which operates one of the most prominent Palestinian Facebook news sites, has about 3.7 million Facebook followers and says it relies on a network of some 300 stringers throughout Israel, the West Bank and Gaza. It breaks news so rapidly that it tends to beat out traditional Palestinian media outlets — even providing those outlets with video and photos.
The site says it is independent, but has a reputation for being affiliated with Islamic Jihad, a Palestinian militant group. "

The author Jerusalem based Daniel Estrin provides no proof of the affiliation and his overall tone is biased. That Dave couldn't even discern or account for this bias means that perhaps he should stick to being a physiotherapist.

P.s. interesting how Netanyahu is heavily featured in the article, doing what he does best....

For Palestinians, social media is source of news _ and anger

RAMALLAH, West Bank (AP) — Four dailies, eight TV stations, and scores of radio stations report on the current wave of Israeli-Palestinian violence in the Palestinian territories.

https://apnews.com/national-national-general-news-ac9819f1d94c4733bbc54932941f509e

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 21:05

BelleHathor · 12/08/2025 21:02

Here is the 2015 Associated Press article used by the "one man band" Dave Van Zandt or as the Columbia Review put it "armchair expert" to rate the Quds Network.
https://apnews.com/national-national-general-news-ac9819f1d94c4733bbc54932941f509e

"The Quds News Network, which operates one of the most prominent Palestinian Facebook news sites, has about 3.7 million Facebook followers and says it relies on a network of some 300 stringers throughout Israel, the West Bank and Gaza. It breaks news so rapidly that it tends to beat out traditional Palestinian media outlets — even providing those outlets with video and photos.
The site says it is independent, but has a reputation for being affiliated with Islamic Jihad, a Palestinian militant group. "

The author Jerusalem based Daniel Estrin provides no proof of the affiliation and his overall tone is biased. That Dave couldn't even discern or account for this bias means that perhaps he should stick to being a physiotherapist.

P.s. interesting how Netanyahu is heavily featured in the article, doing what he does best....

Oh dear - defending a network with Hamas affiliations.

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 21:11

You may not wish to acknowledge it Belle.

But other people like @DrPrunesqualer have said they find the media fact bias website useful.

I will let people make their own minds up about the reliability of that source- some people may not even consider it much of an issue that it is affiliated with Islamic Jihad 🤷🏼‍♀️

Weltall · 12/08/2025 21:14

BelleHathor · 12/08/2025 21:02

Here is the 2015 Associated Press article used by the "one man band" Dave Van Zandt or as the Columbia Review put it "armchair expert" to rate the Quds Network.
https://apnews.com/national-national-general-news-ac9819f1d94c4733bbc54932941f509e

"The Quds News Network, which operates one of the most prominent Palestinian Facebook news sites, has about 3.7 million Facebook followers and says it relies on a network of some 300 stringers throughout Israel, the West Bank and Gaza. It breaks news so rapidly that it tends to beat out traditional Palestinian media outlets — even providing those outlets with video and photos.
The site says it is independent, but has a reputation for being affiliated with Islamic Jihad, a Palestinian militant group. "

The author Jerusalem based Daniel Estrin provides no proof of the affiliation and his overall tone is biased. That Dave couldn't even discern or account for this bias means that perhaps he should stick to being a physiotherapist.

P.s. interesting how Netanyahu is heavily featured in the article, doing what he does best....

The do post in sipport of Hamas though, it's right there on the xitter account you linked to.

BelleHathor · 12/08/2025 21:21

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 21:05

Oh dear - defending a network with Hamas affiliations.

As you are always complaining about sources, so please prove the Quds Network links to Hamas. You seem so certain that I am sure you must have some.

By the fact checking is an extremely subjective, incestuous and biased industry. From Snopes to Media Bias and others. It's knowing that they're biased and accounting for it.

Twiglets1 · 12/08/2025 21:35

BelleHathor · 12/08/2025 21:21

As you are always complaining about sources, so please prove the Quds Network links to Hamas. You seem so certain that I am sure you must have some.

By the fact checking is an extremely subjective, incestuous and biased industry. From Snopes to Media Bias and others. It's knowing that they're biased and accounting for it.

No I don’t have to provide links to Hamas. I’ve posted the Media Bias report which is independent.

Anyone who wants to see whether this source appears like a mouthpiece for Hamas propaganda can look on X - their account makes no pretence to be impartial in any way so people can draw their own conclusions.

BelleHathor · 12/08/2025 21:53

Like I thought, it's a Palestinian network run by Palestinians in Palestine, reporting on their experiences of life under occupation, land theft and colonization from a Palestinian point of view.

They will report on Hamas as well as Fatah and PLO that doesn't make them affiliated with Hamas to anyone who doesn't see all Palestinians as Hamas any more than this picture of Trey Yingst Fox News reporter makes him Hamas (but perhapshe gets a pass as an American).

No military is more publicly condemned today than the Israel Defense Forces.
Weltall · 12/08/2025 21:57

BelleHathor · 12/08/2025 21:53

Like I thought, it's a Palestinian network run by Palestinians in Palestine, reporting on their experiences of life under occupation, land theft and colonization from a Palestinian point of view.

They will report on Hamas as well as Fatah and PLO that doesn't make them affiliated with Hamas to anyone who doesn't see all Palestinians as Hamas any more than this picture of Trey Yingst Fox News reporter makes him Hamas (but perhapshe gets a pass as an American).

Does the Fox News reporter refer to Hamas as freedom fighters?

BelleHathor · 12/08/2025 22:10

Weltall · 12/08/2025 21:57

Does the Fox News reporter refer to Hamas as freedom fighters?

Under International Law and affirmed by numerous UN resolutions, occupied people have the right to fight against that occupation

Weltall · 12/08/2025 22:29

BelleHathor · 12/08/2025 22:10

Under International Law and affirmed by numerous UN resolutions, occupied people have the right to fight against that occupation

What's your point?

SomeWomanSomewhere · 12/08/2025 22:52

You know, if Israel and its army don't want to be so "unfairly" condemned what would genuinely help is them not constantly saying completely unhinged stuff:

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu tells i24 he feels he is on a “historic and spiritual mission,” and that he is “very” attached to the vision of Greater Israel, which includes areas slated for a future Palestinian state and possibly also areas that are part of present-day Jordan and Egypt. [...] Gal also asks the premier during the interview if he feels he is on a mission on behalf of the Jewish people. Netanyahu answers that he is “on a mission of generations — there are generations of Jews that dreamt of coming here and generations of Jews who will come after us.”(Source: Times of Israel, https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblogentry/netanyahu-says-hes-on-a-historic-and-spiritual-mission-endorses-vision-of-greater-israel/)

If this were a friend of mine I would tell them "I love you and you are losing the fucking plot, mate!".

We are somehow discussing whether or not unconfirmed sympathies should get Palestinian journalists killed while the Israeli PM just gets to openly go full on megalomania.

BelleHathor · 12/08/2025 23:14

SomeWomanSomewhere · 12/08/2025 22:52

You know, if Israel and its army don't want to be so "unfairly" condemned what would genuinely help is them not constantly saying completely unhinged stuff:

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu tells i24 he feels he is on a “historic and spiritual mission,” and that he is “very” attached to the vision of Greater Israel, which includes areas slated for a future Palestinian state and possibly also areas that are part of present-day Jordan and Egypt. [...] Gal also asks the premier during the interview if he feels he is on a mission on behalf of the Jewish people. Netanyahu answers that he is “on a mission of generations — there are generations of Jews that dreamt of coming here and generations of Jews who will come after us.”(Source: Times of Israel, https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblogentry/netanyahu-says-hes-on-a-historic-and-spiritual-mission-endorses-vision-of-greater-israel/)

If this were a friend of mine I would tell them "I love you and you are losing the fucking plot, mate!".

We are somehow discussing whether or not unconfirmed sympathies should get Palestinian journalists killed while the Israeli PM just gets to openly go full on megalomania.

Edited

This is the craziest thing:
""I love you and you are losing the fucking plot, mate!".

Most people can see this, it's been 22 months of watching the slow descent into megalomania.

I've sometimes wonder whether Netanyahus increasingly shocking statements are a cry for America to "make him stop" so he doesn't have to take responsibility. However that would depend on Trump who's current mental capacity is being questioned.

Though I can't stand him, Netanyahu has always been a shrewd, calculated, deceitful but charming political figure.

SomeWomanSomewhere · 12/08/2025 23:23

BelleHathor · 12/08/2025 23:14

This is the craziest thing:
""I love you and you are losing the fucking plot, mate!".

Most people can see this, it's been 22 months of watching the slow descent into megalomania.

I've sometimes wonder whether Netanyahus increasingly shocking statements are a cry for America to "make him stop" so he doesn't have to take responsibility. However that would depend on Trump who's current mental capacity is being questioned.

Though I can't stand him, Netanyahu has always been a shrewd, calculated, deceitful but charming political figure.

He is, as per all profiles and assessments ever made about him and as per various former aides, not good at operating under pressure. I think this might matter more here.

CalmTealExpert · 12/08/2025 23:44

BelleHathor · 12/08/2025 22:10

Under International Law and affirmed by numerous UN resolutions, occupied people have the right to fight against that occupation

hamas are not freedom fighters

BelleHathor · 12/08/2025 23:46

SomeWomanSomewhere · 12/08/2025 23:23

He is, as per all profiles and assessments ever made about him and as per various former aides, not good at operating under pressure. I think this might matter more here.

Irrationality, hopefully for Israel, the region and the world there are appropriate failsafes in place to limit anything more crazy.
We are living in very dangerous times.

CalmTealExpert · 13/08/2025 14:00

https://x.com/QudsNen/status/1710582464719016133

are these people freedom fighters to you? is this a reliable news source?

https://x.com/QudsNen/status/1710582464719016133

Timeforabitofpeace · 13/08/2025 16:38

Who can say what’s reliable now. There are no journalists and even Israeli journalists are restricted, accompanied by IDF, and have to submit articles for approval. Any less than completely positive pieces are disallowed.

Clavinova · 14/08/2025 21:29

BelleHathor · 12/08/2025 19:57

Absolutely, especially as they are Republicans, flag carrying, America the great, usually pro-war contingent. You could almost see the "oh, shit" dawn on that representatives face. The fact that the political class doesn't realise what is brewing is fascinating.

Although it looks to me as though someone has been a little disingenuous with the editing. Two of the four people in your link (including the man holding the flag who said; “I am so disappointed...") appear to have spoken earlier in the meeting and their comments were unrelated to the questions on Gaza, which came at the end of the event;

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/07/31/politics/bryan-steil-wisconsin-event

Twiglets1 · 14/08/2025 21:52

Timeforabitofpeace · 13/08/2025 16:38

Who can say what’s reliable now. There are no journalists and even Israeli journalists are restricted, accompanied by IDF, and have to submit articles for approval. Any less than completely positive pieces are disallowed.

None of us can say what's reliable. It's a good step to understand this very important point. The local journalists in Gaza aren't reliable as they dare not say anything anti Hamas. The foreign journalists apparently going in soon won't be that reliable either if they are too closely supervised by the IDF and not allowed to see anything the IDF don't want them to see.

BelleHathor · 15/08/2025 00:17

Clavinova · 14/08/2025 21:29

Although it looks to me as though someone has been a little disingenuous with the editing. Two of the four people in your link (including the man holding the flag who said; “I am so disappointed...") appear to have spoken earlier in the meeting and their comments were unrelated to the questions on Gaza, which came at the end of the event;

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/07/31/politics/bryan-steil-wisconsin-event

Thanks for the article it's great to see the discontent from the voting public reported. It was an extremely lively Town Hall (Republican voters do have a tendency to be quite forthright aka love a good sparing match) with politicians they feel are not representing them.

Though only 2 people in the video spoke about Gaza it still shows the discontent in Trump’s base towards policies that are not representing them (Gaza, tariffs, inflation, Ukraine, immigration) just over 12 months from the midterms.

Bryan Steil won his election 9 months ago witn 54% of the vote an 11 point margin. Now voters that may have stormed the capitol on January 6th are openly saying Trump is on the Epstein list.

AcaciaGum · 15/08/2025 09:16

BelleHathor · 12/08/2025 21:53

Like I thought, it's a Palestinian network run by Palestinians in Palestine, reporting on their experiences of life under occupation, land theft and colonization from a Palestinian point of view.

They will report on Hamas as well as Fatah and PLO that doesn't make them affiliated with Hamas to anyone who doesn't see all Palestinians as Hamas any more than this picture of Trey Yingst Fox News reporter makes him Hamas (but perhapshe gets a pass as an American).

They are a Hamas network who post pro-Hamas propaganda. I thought we weren't supposed to associate Hamas with Palestinians in general?

SummerFeverVenice · 15/08/2025 13:57

CalmTealExpert · 12/08/2025 23:44

hamas are not freedom fighters

They might have been if they had not resorted to terrorism and war crimes.

Armed resistance to an armed occupation is legal in principle by international law as the pp pointed out.

However, as soon as the armed resistance systematically commits war crimes and/or terrorist attacks, the group is no longer legitimate as ‘freedom fighters’ but become and most often stay criminal terrorists.

However, some terrorist groups in modern history have reformed themselves into legitimate freedom fighters, armies and political or even ruling parties of government (ie ANC, Ghandism, Haganah, PLO, Sinn Fein) The common factor amongst all these groups is the cause was both just and was ultimately fulfilled, negating the original reasons for armed resistance in the first place.