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Conflict in the Middle East

No military is more publicly condemned today than the Israel Defense Forces.

303 replies

ConscientiousObserver · 06/08/2025 21:36

Extremely informative article by Yoav Gallant, Former Israeli Defence Minister and John Spencer, Executive Director of the Urban Warfare Institute.

No military is more publicly condemned today than the Israel Defense Forces. Yet behind closed doors, few are more studied. Western generals and defense officials routinely seek Israeli briefings, request access to doctrine and tactics, and pursue cooperation on training and technology. These efforts continue even as their political counterparts issue statements of moral outrage and condemnation. The contradiction reflects more than a double standard. It reveals a deeper divide between political perception and military reality, between external messaging and internal understanding, between illusion and experience.

Since the war in Gaza began, Israel has hosted dozens of foreign delegations. Military officers and defense officials observe Israeli operations firsthand. They ask technical questions about targeting processes, coordination between air and ground forces, real-time intelligence integration, and how combat units distinguish between civilians and combatants under fire. Some return weeks later to formalize cooperation on areas ranging from tunnel warfare to hostage recovery to civilian harm mitigation. Meanwhile, many of their political counterparts deliver rehearsed remarks emphasizing restraint, proportionality, and civilian protection, often with little connection to the operational context or ground realities they were just briefed on.

This is not just political inconsistency. It is strategic dissonance. War is never clean. Urban warfare against a hybrid enemy embedded in civilian areas is among the most complex challenges modern democracies will face. Yet the public discussion is often dominated by expectations of precision and perfection that no military force can guarantee. In many capitals, political performance overrides professional understanding.

In Gaza, Hamas constructed more than 300 miles of fortified tunnels beneath civilian infrastructure. It operates from hospitals, schools, and mosques by design, not necessity. Early in the war, the IDF learned a simple rule: if you want to find a tunnel, look beneath a school. If you are searching for an enemy headquarters, start under a mosque. If you suspect an arms depot, check the basement of a hospital. This is not coincidence; it is a consistent, deliberate tactic. Hamas has blocked evacuations, placed command centers inside humanitarian zones, and taken hundreds of hostages. These are not side effects of war. They are deliberate features of a strategy built to paralyze democracies, provoke condemnation, and weaponize civilian suffering. The targeting of civilians is not incidental. It is essential to Hamas’s operational concept.

Many political leaders respond by invoking past conflicts. They reference battles in Mosul, Aleppo, Fallujah, or Raqqa, assuming these comparisons provide meaningful precedent. But most of these conflicts did not involve an adversary intentionally preventing civilians from leaving combat zones. Most did not involve hundreds of hostages dispersed across a dense urban battlefield. Most involved insurgencies, not foreign-backed terror armies. Many involved military forces that did not follow the same standards of precision and accountability expected of Israel. These differences matter. Failing to account for them leads to flawed analysis and unrealistic policy prescriptions.

These dynamics are not limited to Gaza. Across the region, similar tactics are emerging. In southern Syria, the Julani regime has carried out atrocities against the Druze population while embedded within civilian areas. These acts of cruelty follow the same playbook used by Hamas. Yet few international voices draw consistent lines between them. This silence reflects another gap: the unwillingness to apply standards evenly when the political costs differ. Condemnation is directed at those who can hear it. Those who operate beyond the reach of democratic norms often face no scrutiny at all.

While calls for humanitarian concern grow louder, few political leaders press for solutions that would actually reduce civilian harm. Egypt continues to keep its border with Gaza closed, despite being the sole neighboring country uninvolved in the conflict and capable of providing immediate relief to civilians seeking safety. Evacuation routes remain blocked. Temporary refuge for civilians is politically possible but diplomatically ignored. Not a single major European government or United Nations body has mounted sustained pressure on Cairo to open the Rafah crossing or to establish a displaced persons or humanitarian zone a few kilometers into the Sinai. Instead, criticism centers on Israel, the only actor currently conducting both combat and humanitarian operations in the same battlespace. The imbalance distorts both perception and policy.

This is not the first time democracies have confronted hard choices. The wars of the twentieth century were waged with heavy costs. Civilian casualties were tragically high. But the principle of civilian protection was strengthened over time, especially with the Geneva Conventions adopted after World War II. Those conventions remain the foundation of the modern laws of war. They prohibit intentional attacks on civilians and impose a duty to take feasible precautions to avoid civilian harm. But they do not demand perfection, nor do they outlaw war itself. When adversaries exploit civilians to provoke condemnation and delay operations, the responsibility lies with those who commit the violations—not those who attempt to respond within the law.

The numbers bear remembering. Two million civilians died in the Korean War, averaging over 50,000 per month. More than ten thousand were killed in the liberation of a single city, Mosul. Hundreds of thousands died during military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Cities were flattened in the campaign against ISIS. These are not historical footnotes. They are reminders of what war has always entailed, especially in dense urban environments. Today, only one military—the IDF—is expected to achieve battlefield success without error, without civilian harm, and without criticism, even as it faces enemies who deliberately try to make this impossible.

Despite this, militaries around the world continue to seek Israeli knowledge. Governments initiate formal cooperation agreements. Officers train in Israeli facilities. Procurement programs focus on Israeli defense technologies developed through experience in real combat conditions. These are not isolated interactions. They are serious, structured engagements based on the recognition that similar wars may lie ahead. European and NATO militaries understand that future threats may look more like Hamas than like conventional armies. They are preparing accordingly.
This is not a blanket condemnation of all political leaders. Many do understand what modern war demands and the reality Israel is confronting. Nor is the political-professional divide a one-way street. War is ultimately the pursuit of political objectives, and in a democracy, those objectives are set by political leaders based on the best advice of their military advisors. At the same time, senior military leaders must understand the domestic, international, and geopolitical factors that frame and constrain the use of force. Political leaders cannot speak about war without accounting for context, history, strategy, tactics, and operational reality. And military leaders cannot speak about war without understanding the political environment that defines it. The tension between political and professional perspectives is not a flaw. It is a feature of democratic governance. But it must be informed, mutual, and honest.

Unfortunately, that equilibrium is too often lost. Political leaders too often avoid difficult truths. Some present war as inherently unjust. Others suggest that all violence can be avoided with diplomacy or restraint. Few acknowledge that, in extreme cases, force may be both necessary and lawful. This avoidance does not strengthen democracy. It weakens it. It misleads citizens, erodes deterrence, and gives adversaries greater freedom of action.

In Israel, such illusions are not possible. Conflict is measured in meters. Homes sit a few hundred yards from hostile territory. Missiles arrive in seconds. Tunnels turn rear areas into front lines. Civilian buildings become military objectives by design. This is not theoretical. It is a daily reality.
On October 7, Hamas killed 1,200 Israelis, many through direct atrocities. Adjusted for population, that would be the equivalent of over 40,000 Americans or more than 8,000 Britons killed in a single day. International law permits self-defense, even in war. It also permits the use of force against military objectives. Proportionality accounts for the presence of civilians, even when they are unlawfully placed at risk by those who violate the laws of war. It requires that civilian harm not be excessive in relation to the anticipated military advantage and that every feasible precaution be taken to minimize that harm. Israel has done both.
Democracies must regain strategic clarity. They cannot afford to treat war as a morality play while military officers prepare for reality. They must explain to their populations that war, when necessary, is not only legal but at times morally required. They must recognize that the expectations placed on allies today may become the burdens they bear tomorrow. The next war will not wait for consensus. It will demand readiness, resolve, and truth.

If democratic leaders continue to separate what they know privately from what they say publicly, the result will not be greater morality. It will be greater suffering and failure. Silence will not deter enemies. Illusion will not protect civilians. And condemnation, without context or consistency, will not produce peace.

The hard lessons of war must be faced, not avoided. Military professionals understand this. It is time for political leaders to do the same.
General Yoav Gallant, former Israeli Minister of Defense and decorated IDF commander, shares strategic insights on leadership, security, and geopolitics—drawing from nearly five decades at the forefront of Israel’s national defense.

John Spencer is Executive Director of the Urban Warfare Institute and co-author of Understanding Urban Warfare. A leading expert on urban warfare, he advised senior U.S. Army leaders through strategic roles from the Pentagon to West Point.

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29
Kakeandkake · 09/08/2025 16:31

The IDF are a fucking disgrace. The army that indiscriminately kills women and children.

Kakeandkake · 09/08/2025 16:33

Who even supports the IDF except for Israelis and a handful of their supporters?

IDF soldiers are treated with contempt around the world for they are war criminals and murderers.

Kakeandkake · 09/08/2025 16:34

No military is more publicly immoral than the Israeli Defense Forces.

I don't think the condemnation goes far enough.

ConscientiousObserver · 09/08/2025 16:35

DrPrunesqualer · 09/08/2025 15:13

I cant
because they aren’t allowed in anymore and over 200 were killed by the IDF

There are allowed in but have to be embedded with the IDF as stated in the article you yourself posted.

What evidence do you have that supports Palestinian journalists in Gaza being independent and not Hamas mouthpieces/working for Hamas?

They can’t be anyway as Hamas will execute them.

So I don’t actually blame them tbh.

What seems to be ignored is that in every other war, war correspondents are embedded with an army but maybe you could direct me to a war against a terrorist organisation, who are also a government of a territory, in the same environment and circumstances as Gaza, where they’ve wandered unsupervised for comparison?

I’ll wait.

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DrPrunesqualer · 09/08/2025 16:36

Twiglets1 · 09/08/2025 16:21

I haven’t.

Im posting in good faith and don’t see who someone wouldn’t provide specific evidence of something happening. I try to provide evidence when I make claims and definitely would if someone asked politely.

Ok. Well off the top of my head and without an in-depth Google I know of
Ashira Darwish.
Ive googled her name and here’s an article
I’ll post some of the relevant interview from the Marc Steiner Show

No military is more publicly condemned today than the Israel Defense Forces.
No military is more publicly condemned today than the Israel Defense Forces.
No military is more publicly condemned today than the Israel Defense Forces.
DrPrunesqualer · 09/08/2025 16:39

ConscientiousObserver · 09/08/2025 16:35

There are allowed in but have to be embedded with the IDF as stated in the article you yourself posted.

What evidence do you have that supports Palestinian journalists in Gaza being independent and not Hamas mouthpieces/working for Hamas?

They can’t be anyway as Hamas will execute them.

So I don’t actually blame them tbh.

What seems to be ignored is that in every other war, war correspondents are embedded with an army but maybe you could direct me to a war against a terrorist organisation, who are also a government of a territory, in the same environment and circumstances as Gaza, where they’ve wandered unsupervised for comparison?

I’ll wait.

Current journalists no idea.

If you're accusing all journalists working there before they were banned then I’m afraid there is no hope for that level of deniability

DrPrunesqualer · 09/08/2025 16:43

DrPrunesqualer · 09/08/2025 16:36

Ok. Well off the top of my head and without an in-depth Google I know of
Ashira Darwish.
Ive googled her name and here’s an article
I’ll post some of the relevant interview from the Marc Steiner Show

Then Twigs this is a recent article mainly about a demo in the West Bank on 4th August. Part of it highlights the number of detained journalists. Then tally that with their treatment

No military is more publicly condemned today than the Israel Defense Forces.
No military is more publicly condemned today than the Israel Defense Forces.
Twiglets1 · 09/08/2025 16:45

DrPrunesqualer · 09/08/2025 16:36

Ok. Well off the top of my head and without an in-depth Google I know of
Ashira Darwish.
Ive googled her name and here’s an article
I’ll post some of the relevant interview from the Marc Steiner Show

These links do not give evidence of the IDF torturing & using sexual violence against journalists in Gaza, so not sure why you posted these screenshots.

But don’t worry, I wasn’t talking to you anyway so only post evidence if you know of any. As far as I’m aware it doesn’t exist so wouldn’t expect you to do an in depth Google looking for it.

LoremIpsumCici · 09/08/2025 16:54

Twiglets1 · 09/08/2025 16:13

I can’t take someone seriously who denies that Al Jazeera journalists are anti Israel.

I can’t take seriously someone who is tarring every single journalist, thousands of men and women of all different nationalities and religions, that work for a certain news outlet as “antiIsrael” simply because they are recording and exposing how their colleagues are harassed, attacked, detained, injured or even killed by the IDF, Palestinian Authority, Hamas, and PIJ.

It shows a lack of depth and a failure to look at the wider context.

LoremIpsumCici · 09/08/2025 16:58

Twiglets1 · 09/08/2025 16:45

These links do not give evidence of the IDF torturing & using sexual violence against journalists in Gaza, so not sure why you posted these screenshots.

But don’t worry, I wasn’t talking to you anyway so only post evidence if you know of any. As far as I’m aware it doesn’t exist so wouldn’t expect you to do an in depth Google looking for it.

It does happen to journalists detained in Gaza, West Bank and East Jerusalem, who are then transported and held in detention in Israel
https://www.arabnews.jp/en/middle-east/article_125542/

So the pp link on the conditions in Israeli prisons for detainees is good evidence.

‘Unprecedented’ number of journalists arrested in Palestine since Oct. 7

LONDON: An “unprecedented” total of 51 arrests of journalists in Palestine have been documented by the Committ・・・

https://www.arabnews.jp/en/middle-east/article_125542/

Twiglets1 · 09/08/2025 16:58

LoremIpsumCici · 09/08/2025 16:54

I can’t take seriously someone who is tarring every single journalist, thousands of men and women of all different nationalities and religions, that work for a certain news outlet as “antiIsrael” simply because they are recording and exposing how their colleagues are harassed, attacked, detained, injured or even killed by the IDF, Palestinian Authority, Hamas, and PIJ.

It shows a lack of depth and a failure to look at the wider context.

It’s because they choose to work for Al Jazeera not because of what they are recording or exposing. They aren’t unbiased in my opinion. Have you ever seen a local journalist in Gaza criticising Hamas?

ConscientiousObserver · 09/08/2025 16:59

Dummydimmer · 09/08/2025 15:10

The pro Israel commentators on this site are upset that Israel is roundly criticised by many states. Mass starvation of weaker opponents is not a good look. Israel wants Palestine for themselves and are undertaking ethnic cleansing to achieve their aims. That's about it.

From my own perspective, I’m not upset that Israel is criticised.

I do find it shocking, and very concerning, that a terrorist organisation and its narrative is roundly believed though, and before any operations against them were even fully started, and the democratic country it started a war with is totally disbelieved, when it was clear from the start Hamas had no defence other than anti-Israel propaganda which seemed to have been orchestrated from the very beginning!

I don’t believe for a second that would have been the case if Israel, the world’s only Jewish state wasn’t the country attacked.

I have sought to separate facts from propaganda from a standpoint that I believe every country has a fundamental responsibility for the safety of its own citizens to prevent and take action against terrorist attacks and to implement security measures to active that, which included blockading Gaza, creating the iron dome, action against Hezbollah and the current war to dismantle Hamas, every country, including Israel.

OP posts:
Twiglets1 · 09/08/2025 17:03

LoremIpsumCici · 09/08/2025 16:58

It does happen to journalists detained in Gaza, West Bank and East Jerusalem, who are then transported and held in detention in Israel
https://www.arabnews.jp/en/middle-east/article_125542/

So the pp link on the conditions in Israeli prisons for detainees is good evidence.

All that link tells us is that a lot of local journalists get detained.

No evidence of the IDF torturing journalists in Gaza or using sexual violence against them. Which is what was alleged, not that a lot don’t get detained in prison, I would not have questioned that.

LoremIpsumCici · 09/08/2025 17:04

ConscientiousObserver · 09/08/2025 16:35

There are allowed in but have to be embedded with the IDF as stated in the article you yourself posted.

What evidence do you have that supports Palestinian journalists in Gaza being independent and not Hamas mouthpieces/working for Hamas?

They can’t be anyway as Hamas will execute them.

So I don’t actually blame them tbh.

What seems to be ignored is that in every other war, war correspondents are embedded with an army but maybe you could direct me to a war against a terrorist organisation, who are also a government of a territory, in the same environment and circumstances as Gaza, where they’ve wandered unsupervised for comparison?

I’ll wait.

Hamas has and does harass, intimidate, beat up, and kill Palestinian journalists in Gaza.

Take a look, well any war, because in them independent journalists were embedded with military AND humanitarian NGOs AND they were able to go anywhere that wasn’t an active combat zone- to all areas civilians are evacuated to. They were also allowed to document from close to where combat was - ie talking while behind them an artillery assault was going on. They were also allowed to fly over, drive or walk through and document damage after an area is no longer a combat zone. They were also allowed into hospitals and other areas that are not legal military targets.

LoremIpsumCici · 09/08/2025 17:05

Twiglets1 · 09/08/2025 17:03

All that link tells us is that a lot of local journalists get detained.

No evidence of the IDF torturing journalists in Gaza or using sexual violence against them. Which is what was alleged, not that a lot don’t get detained in prison, I would not have questioned that.

Not the link I posted, the link the pp posted that goes to other sources that document the conditions for detainees in Israeli prisons that do amount to torture, sexual violence and even death.

The link I posted shows that journalists in Gaza are detained and taken to prisons in Israel. So it doesn’t have to be torture or rape happening while still in Gaza.

LoremIpsumCici · 09/08/2025 17:08

Twiglets1 · 09/08/2025 16:58

It’s because they choose to work for Al Jazeera not because of what they are recording or exposing. They aren’t unbiased in my opinion. Have you ever seen a local journalist in Gaza criticising Hamas?

Yes I have. This is a recent example.
https://cpj.org/2025/05/gaza-journalists-speak-out-about-hamas-intimidation-threats-assaults/

And while I agree they are not unbiased, in the sense that all media outlets have bias, I can’t agree that they are “anti Israel”

Notmycircusnotmyotter · 09/08/2025 17:09

Thanks for posting. Incredibly well written and absolutely accurate.

Notmycircusnotmyotter · 09/08/2025 17:09

Thanks for posting. Incredibly well written and absolutely accurate.

Notmycircusnotmyotter · 09/08/2025 17:09

Thanks for posting. Incredibly well written and absolutely accurate.

Notmycircusnotmyotter · 09/08/2025 17:09

Thanks for posting. Incredibly well written and absolutely accurate.

DrPrunesqualer · 09/08/2025 17:12

Twiglets1 · 09/08/2025 16:45

These links do not give evidence of the IDF torturing & using sexual violence against journalists in Gaza, so not sure why you posted these screenshots.

But don’t worry, I wasn’t talking to you anyway so only post evidence if you know of any. As far as I’m aware it doesn’t exist so wouldn’t expect you to do an in depth Google looking for it.

She’s a journalist. She has made a testimony to the fact. It exists.

The IDF aren’t going to publish videos and I doubt anyone being tortured, raped or sodomised thinks to pull a phone out and video the act.
You’re asking for too much if you expect that
You know that level of evidence isn’t available
You will also know when the IG and IDF investigate their war crimes 80% pass through in their own favour

I assumed a long time reasonable poster such as yourself would now that already. It’s just logic

Does the fact that I posted evidence make it not true because I wasn’t in conversation with you. Really ?!

LoremIpsumCici · 09/08/2025 17:17

DrPrunesqualer · 09/08/2025 17:12

She’s a journalist. She has made a testimony to the fact. It exists.

The IDF aren’t going to publish videos and I doubt anyone being tortured, raped or sodomised thinks to pull a phone out and video the act.
You’re asking for too much if you expect that
You know that level of evidence isn’t available
You will also know when the IG and IDF investigate their war crimes 80% pass through in their own favour

I assumed a long time reasonable poster such as yourself would now that already. It’s just logic

Does the fact that I posted evidence make it not true because I wasn’t in conversation with you. Really ?!

Edited

They’re being ridiculous. Imagine applying that standard to domestic violence.

”Madam, because you don’t have a video of your husband giving you those bruises and that broken arm, you have no evidence and as far as I am concerned domestic violence doesn’t exist.”

Its silliness! Even our prisons struggle with cases of abuse of prisoners by guards that amount to torture and rape. Saying prisoner abuse doesn’t exist is completely naive and disconnected from reality,

ConscientiousObserver · 09/08/2025 17:17

LoremIpsumCici · 09/08/2025 17:04

Hamas has and does harass, intimidate, beat up, and kill Palestinian journalists in Gaza.

Take a look, well any war, because in them independent journalists were embedded with military AND humanitarian NGOs AND they were able to go anywhere that wasn’t an active combat zone- to all areas civilians are evacuated to. They were also allowed to document from close to where combat was - ie talking while behind them an artillery assault was going on. They were also allowed to fly over, drive or walk through and document damage after an area is no longer a combat zone. They were also allowed into hospitals and other areas that are not legal military targets.

Edited

Is there anywhere is Gaza that is NOT a combat zone seeing as Hamas and the other terrorist groups working with them are well documented as using civilian areas (and pretending to be uninvolved civilians) as such?

They even fire rockets directly from inside refugee camps!

OP posts:
Twiglets1 · 09/08/2025 17:20

LoremIpsumCici · 09/08/2025 17:08

Yes I have. This is a recent example.
https://cpj.org/2025/05/gaza-journalists-speak-out-about-hamas-intimidation-threats-assaults/

And while I agree they are not unbiased, in the sense that all media outlets have bias, I can’t agree that they are “anti Israel”

Edited

This is an extremely rare example of a local journalist in Gaza criticising Hamas and your link tells us why. In fact it provides evidence for my opinion that local journalists in Gaza cannot be unbiased because they would be punished by Hamas if they said anything negative about them.

From your link:

“They even told me that I would be responsible if my wife participated in the demonstration,” said Abu Jarad, a 44-year-old correspondent for Ramallah-based privately owned Sawt al-Hurriya radio station. “I have not covered any recent demonstrations,” he concluded, recalling how he was beaten and interrogated for hours by Hamas-affiliated masked assailants in the southern city of Rafah in November 2023, accusing him of “covering events in the Gaza Strip calling for a coup.”

He only secured his freedom with a promise to stop reporting.

Another journalist told The Washington Post they feared covering highly unusual demonstrations in March 2025 would lead Hamas to accuse them of spying for Israel. A third said Hamas’ internal security agents sometimes followed journalists as they reported. Both spoke on the condition of anonymity.

Abu Jarad reported Hamas’ threat against himself and his wife to the Palestinian Journalists’ Syndicate (PJS), the official union for Palestinian journalists, and PJS publicly condemned Hamas for violating press freedom.
Prior to this, PJS had only published one other incident involving Hamas during the war — the brutal assault of Ibrahim Muhareb, who was beaten unconscious by armed men in plainclothes who said they were from the police investigations department. He sustained deep head wounds.
“Without giving any reason, they tried to assault me,” said Muhareb, a freelance photographer for the local Quds Feed media network and the Turkish state-owned broadcaster TRT, who was working from a tent next to southern Gaza’s Nasser Hospital.
“When I tried to contact a police officer in charge of journalists’ affairs, they tried to dismantle my tent. When I resisted, they began assaulting me, by kicking me,” the 28-year-old said.
“I tried to speak to them calmly, but they began to beat me even more severely. They suddenly struck me with an instrument, causing me to lose consciousness, and blood flowed from my head,” he told CPJ.
“Some colleagues tried to intervene, but they prevented them, literally telling them that ‘the spy and the journalist are one and the same,'” Muhareb said.
Muharab said he tried to lift a cover put over his head and face but the officers threatened him with a gun. Eventually, some journalists pulled him free and sought medical treatment for wounds all over his body.

Muharab’s experience is not unusual — it’s his decision to go public that marks him out.

https://cpj.org/2025/05/gaza-journalists-speak-out-about-hamas-intimidation-threats-assaults/

Gaza journalists speak out about Hamas intimidation, threats, assaults - Committee to Protect Journalists

New York, May 15, 2025—When Gazan journalist Tawfiq Abu Jarad received a phone call from a Hamas security agent warning him not to cover a protest, he readily complied, having been assaulted by Hamas-affiliated forces once before.     The April 27 wome...

https://cpj.org/2025/05/gaza-journalists-speak-out-about-hamas-intimidation-threats-assaults/

LoremIpsumCici · 09/08/2025 17:21

ConscientiousObserver · 09/08/2025 17:17

Is there anywhere is Gaza that is NOT a combat zone seeing as Hamas and the other terrorist groups working with them are well documented as using civilian areas (and pretending to be uninvolved civilians) as such?

They even fire rockets directly from inside refugee camps!

Yes, most of the Gaza Strip is not a designated combat zone by the IDF at any one time. Combat zones are many and move with the battles.

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