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Conflict in the Middle East

Palestine Action demo 9 August

415 replies

Beachtastic · 06/08/2025 09:35

To my amazement, last night I discovered that some posters on MN think that "radical Islam" means simply "Muslim" 😬

I wonder if this explains why so many are unconcerned about who might be pulling the strings behind the "peace" rallies that were first organised on 7 October? Do they know what radical Islam is, how powerful it is, that it is widely acknowledged as the greatest threat to UK national security, that its intentions are clearly stated, that it is 10000000% different than simply observing Muslim faith?

Palestine Action are planning a rally in central London on Saturday and hope to overwhelm the police presence. Is anyone concerned about this? I'm worried that the seeds of civil unrest are being sown, without it being entirely clear who is sowing them.

www.standard.co.uk/news/london/met-police-palestine-action-protest-b1241347.html

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GentleSheep · 09/08/2025 08:00

Wow this thread really took a turn! 😂

Getting back to this comment With what science has discovered in the last 200 odd years, if someone came up with the concept of God now, in a non-religious world, they would be laughed out of the room

You'd be surprised just how much science can't explain about creation and the universe, or tries to explain, disagrees on and fails. However other parts of science (such as physics) does now back up the original creation! I'm back to studying Genesis again in my church bible study group (from my previous rather shallow days of reading with my scientist's hat on and just thinking that 'days' probably meant 'eras' and so on.) Now doing it in fine detail and have realised I've missed a LOT of meaning. I am very much looking forward to future bible studies where we'll discuss the flood, dinosaurs, evolution and so on, and fully expecting my previous understanding to be severely challenged. Just looking into the properties of water and light is quite incredible, and that's only Genesis 1:2-3! I have to admit I've failed as a Christian to fully grasp and study the creation, probably due to science and how it's diminished the original creation story. I'm kind of gobsmacked by it all.

Beachtastic · 09/08/2025 08:43

Nova Festival was a psytrance gathering, i.e. a "psychedelic" community playing "trance" music to share that transcendent state in what is conceived as a sacred ceremony. Very different from, say, Reading Festival 😳

Purists might frown upon achieving transcendence via "artificial" means rather than months of isolation, meditation, starvation, whatever... but as I say, I believe that this is how humans discovered it in the first place and that this was what gave rise to worship of some kind, as well as fostering true community (Nova was part of a global tribe, Universo Parallo, that began as tiny gatherings in Brazil). Look up e.g. soma, the Eleusinian mysteries, peyote, bhang...

But one of the things about the psychedelic experience is that you cannot sweep anything under the carpet mentally or emotionally: you'll be confronted with it clearly, and will find yourself easily disposing of neurotic lifetime habits and other bullshit such as status-driven bullshit, snobbery, and other cultural toxins.

For example, I will forever be grateful to the ex-BF who introduced me to all this, but as soon as we "tripped" together I couldn't help but notice he was a complete wanker 😬 ... something that would normally have taken me years to work out (I was accustomed to abusive relationships)! 😂

What seems to have happened with religion is that the authorities who wanted to dominate and exert social control removed the sacrament but kept the ceremony. And installed gatekeepers (vicars, priests, imams, gurus, rabbis, monks...) to mediate our connection to the divine.

For my sins, for a few years I edited a journal on theology. And OMG, the endless arrogant posturing of these tired old academics! The sneaky digs at each other's research! Pages and pages and pages of struggling to impose a spiritually meaningful interpretation onto confusing and contradictory Bibical (and other) text, written centuries apart for different purposes. Now THAT's when I'd really like to have shoved a handful of mushrooms down everyone's necks and said "OK, now go off and write this again." 🫢

The other thing about psychedelics is that it's nothing like getting drunk. Unlike alcohol, it makes you more lucid and more sensitive/connected to everything around you (which is why jungle tribes use them to heighten awareness for hunting). So when you read that the festival-goers at Nova were "on drugs" you need to bear in mind which drugs, and what the effects were, and how this must have made the sudden plunge from heaven into hell all the more traumatic.

The original flyers are no longer available online, but the Universo Parallelo site describes a similar festival later that year as:

The Universo Paralello festival is much more than a simple psychedelic trance music festival – it is an international gathering of people from different styles and cultures, all together to celebrate Peace, Love, Union, and Respect. The festival features several stages but also a bunch of transformational activities. It offers visitors workshops, performances, holistic therapies, artistic and cultural ceremonies, and many more, aiming to give people the tools so they can become more aware and help in the path to transcendence.

In my dreams, I imagine how different things would be now if Hamas and the Gazan civilian mobs had come to Nova in peace and just... joined in.

So, anyway, this weekend is going to be rather "interesting" here in the UK. I'm so glad I'm not in the police and live miles from London. Here's hoping for a peaceful outcome.

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Twiglets1 · 09/08/2025 08:58

Hear, Hear to the demonstrations this weekend being peaceful!

HellsBalls · 09/08/2025 12:13

@GentleSheep ”You'd be surprised just how much science can't explain about creation and the universe, or tries to explain, disagrees on and fails.”

We don’t have the intelligence yet, but it’s coming.

Beachtastic · 09/08/2025 13:18

HellsBalls · 09/08/2025 12:13

@GentleSheep ”You'd be surprised just how much science can't explain about creation and the universe, or tries to explain, disagrees on and fails.”

We don’t have the intelligence yet, but it’s coming.

Oh, I can explain it all! 😂🤣 but in terms that will sound like a pretentious load of wank if you haven't had the psychedelic experience 🤯😊

Just get 'em down your neck, job done!

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EasyTouch · 09/08/2025 13:19

I fully endorse the levity that turn in this thread has produced.

Whimsy and having some wonder in one's eye in this seemingly cynical and jaded world needs to be embraced.

Twiglets1 · 09/08/2025 13:21

Beachtastic · 09/08/2025 13:18

Oh, I can explain it all! 😂🤣 but in terms that will sound like a pretentious load of wank if you haven't had the psychedelic experience 🤯😊

Just get 'em down your neck, job done!

Missing the laughing reaction on this thread 😂

HellsBalls · 09/08/2025 18:21

Beachtastic · 09/08/2025 13:18

Oh, I can explain it all! 😂🤣 but in terms that will sound like a pretentious load of wank if you haven't had the psychedelic experience 🤯😊

Just get 'em down your neck, job done!

I’ve done more than my fair share of acid, does that count?
We used to regularly go to the cinema after downing a tab. Night of the Living Dead was a whole other experience.

Echobelly · 09/08/2025 18:34

Loving the direction this thread has taken here, wasn't expecting that on MN!

In terms of if people want to understand what it's like being Jewish, I find people tend to make the mistake of looking at all religions as if they are always approached or fit into people's lives the same way as Christianity does, and of course, Christianity looks different in different people's lives.

I don't believe in God, but this morning I was in synagogue as I am fairly frequently, we keep a kosher-ish house and so on. Judaism for me is not a 'faith' but it is my cultural and spiritual tradition and I find it both weird and an amazing privilege to be continuing, in London in the 21st century, what is basically a 3000-year-old monotheistic Middle Eastern desert cult.

I think that is a fairly typical attitude in my community, but you would find very different experiences and beliefs across the spectrum of Judaism.

Twiglets1 · 09/08/2025 18:43

Sounds like the demo was mainly peaceful with 5 assaults on police officers but no severe injuries.

On X, the Met Police said about 500 to 600 people were in Parliament Square when the protest began, but that "many were onlookers, media or people not holding placards in support of Palestine Action".

It said by 18:00 BST it had arrested 365 people for supporting a proscribed organisation, and there were a further seven arrests for other offences including five for assaults on police officers, though none were seriously injured.

Protesters whose details could be confirmed during processing were bailed with conditions not to attend any further protest in support of Palestine Action.
People who refused to give their details or whose identities could not be verified were taken into custody.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8de6rq37v5o

A woman is led away by police officers as supporters of Palestine Action take part in a protest in Parliament Square, Westminster

Palestine Action protesters arrested by police at London demo

Protesters simultaneously unveiled signs with the same message "I oppose genocide. I support Palestine Action" in Westminster's Parliament Square.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8de6rq37v5o

Beachtastic · 09/08/2025 19:12

I'm glad things went as well as could be expected today - I suppose no surprises that Palestine Action are just sitting tight and leaving the arrests to their fans. A bit nervous about tomorrow's counter-protest, but again I hope that the British stiff upper lip prevails! It's too bloody hot for a riot anyway.

The last para of that BBC article is interesting and confirms my suspicion that the ban has to do with information we will never see:
A Home Office spokesperson said the decision to proscribe the group was based on "strong security advice" following "serious attacks the group had committed, involving violence, significant injuries and extensive criminal damage".
I mean, the minute you make security information public it sort of stops protecting security, no?

@HellsBalls me too! and I've lost count of the number of celebrities who have declared "I owe it all to LSD..." (John Cleese, Stephen Fry, etc). Here's Deepak Chopra describing "LSD as a spiritual experience" but I don't think he mentions Night of the Living Dead! 🤣 You've reminded me that the wanker ex-BF watched Lord of the Rings at the cinema while off his face on ketamine 🫢 Everyone got cross with him for sniffing so loud, but I suppose he was making the most of it in his own way 🤡

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Beachtastic · 09/08/2025 19:16

Please take no notice of the Deepak Chopra remarks by the way, he recommends finding an authentic shaman in Peru to supervise ritual use of hallucinogens. Yeah, well good luck with that 🤣 big cut-throat business out there nowadays 😬

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noblegiraffe · 09/08/2025 19:22

@Echobelly I don't believe in God, but this morning I was in synagogue as I am fairly frequently

Can you explain this further please? Were you attending a religious service?

Echobelly · 09/08/2025 19:41

noblegiraffe · 09/08/2025 19:22

@Echobelly I don't believe in God, but this morning I was in synagogue as I am fairly frequently

Can you explain this further please? Were you attending a religious service?

Of course. Yes, I was there for a service; I hadn't been in a bit and I wanted to go as I'll be on holiday next week, at a different synagogue after that, and then away again.

I still find attending a service a spiritual and meditative experience, and sharing ithat is meaningful. I like my dad's description, which is that even if you don't believe in God, there is a sense of 'immanence', the nearness of something bigger than yourself - and it's not something that's just for religious services, you might feel it at a music concert or a sports match. I agree with him that these things are related. And for Judaism, there is something special, for me at least, in the continuity of an ancient tradition.

It's also lovely to share family celebrations, like a bar mitzvah as there was today - unusual in August! And seeing friends and sometimes family - by coincidence, my MIL was there and sometimes my parents or my brother are at the same time as us as well.

Thelmaandloulou · 09/08/2025 19:42

Echobelly · 09/08/2025 18:34

Loving the direction this thread has taken here, wasn't expecting that on MN!

In terms of if people want to understand what it's like being Jewish, I find people tend to make the mistake of looking at all religions as if they are always approached or fit into people's lives the same way as Christianity does, and of course, Christianity looks different in different people's lives.

I don't believe in God, but this morning I was in synagogue as I am fairly frequently, we keep a kosher-ish house and so on. Judaism for me is not a 'faith' but it is my cultural and spiritual tradition and I find it both weird and an amazing privilege to be continuing, in London in the 21st century, what is basically a 3000-year-old monotheistic Middle Eastern desert cult.

I think that is a fairly typical attitude in my community, but you would find very different experiences and beliefs across the spectrum of Judaism.

This is quite fascinating - thank you for sharing. I had no idea that some secular Jews keep kosher as a cultural practice.

Thelmaandloulou · 09/08/2025 19:47

@Beachtastic not on the same level as hallucinogens, but it does remind me of spiritual enlightenment that is also found in some branches of traditional religions. Like the sufis and whirling dervishes in Islam who dance and meditate to reach a higher spiritual connection with God.

SharonEllis · 09/08/2025 19:51

Thelmaandloulou · 09/08/2025 19:42

This is quite fascinating - thank you for sharing. I had no idea that some secular Jews keep kosher as a cultural practice.

Yes, I don't know any secular jews that keep kosher, but I do know several who regularly attend synagogue. Im an atheist myself and attend christian services reasonably regularly. You don't need to believe in god to have a profound sebse of spirituality and to marvel at the continuity of cultural practice.

Beachtastic · 09/08/2025 19:52

Thelmaandloulou · 09/08/2025 19:47

@Beachtastic not on the same level as hallucinogens, but it does remind me of spiritual enlightenment that is also found in some branches of traditional religions. Like the sufis and whirling dervishes in Islam who dance and meditate to reach a higher spiritual connection with God.

Yes, exactly that!

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HellsBalls · 10/08/2025 08:24

474 arrested. Hopefully some get a prison sentence, and all of them get a criminal record.

JamesMacGill · 10/08/2025 08:38

HellsBalls · 10/08/2025 08:24

474 arrested. Hopefully some get a prison sentence, and all of them get a criminal record.

They’ll all get a criminal record, that much is virtually certain.

Dangermoo · 10/08/2025 08:38

HellsBalls · 10/08/2025 08:24

474 arrested. Hopefully some get a prison sentence, and all of them get a criminal record.

Agree. Lucy Connolly, anyone? Hope we aren't going to see more double standards, which will just cause more frustration amongst the right. That's how this circular shit works. Treat all groups the same.

Dangermoo · 10/08/2025 08:41

JamesMacGill · 10/08/2025 08:38

They’ll all get a criminal record, that much is virtually certain.

They certainly will. Hate speech and/or racial aggravation, will always show on enhanced DBS (disclosures). Good luck to those, who seek their next job. That's before we get to physical assault.

noblegiraffe · 10/08/2025 09:19

HellsBalls · 10/08/2025 08:24

474 arrested. Hopefully some get a prison sentence, and all of them get a criminal record.

We don't have any space in our prisons.

Twiglets1 · 10/08/2025 09:33

noblegiraffe · 10/08/2025 09:19

We don't have any space in our prisons.

No and I think that would be overkill for those that were peaceful… a criminal record is punishment enough.

Twiglets1 · 10/08/2025 09:43

Counter Terrorism Police Statement on Palestine Action:
7 August 2025

Since the proscription of Palestine Action on 5th July 2025 a significant number of arrests have been made by UK policing for suspected offences under the Terrorism Act.

As of today (7th August) 10 people have been charged, with further investigations being progressed through the criminal justice system.
Counter Terrorism Policing and forces across the country are working right across the system to reach effective and appropriate outcomes in these cases.

Senior National Coordinator for Prevent and Pursue at Counter Terrorism Policing Vicki Evans said:
“In the month since the proscription of Palestine Action came into effect, police forces working with CTP have made a substantial number of arrests.
“Our role is to enforce the law where we suspect offences to have been committed and we will continue to do so, without fear or favour.

At this time, it remains illegal to be a member of or encourage support for the group Palestine Action. This legislation is specific to that group and does not interfere with the right to protest in support of the Palestinian cause.

“Operational plans are in place to ensure this right can be preserved over the coming days with protests expected in several major cities, including London.
“As well as robust plans to respond to activity in support of this proscribed group, resources are also in place to investigate offences that may be identified or reported following such events.”

www.counterterrorism.police.uk/statement-on-palestine-action/