Does the CITME forum negatively affect your mental health?

[SomeoneSomewheree]

Personally, yes, it does.

To see people day in and day out try and justify a genocide does affect my mental health so I try to stay away at times.

I have also noticed it is the same handful of posters on both sides arguing, neither convincing the other.

I have unfortunately witnessed at times anti-semitic and anti-Palestinian comments, which are not pleasant to read.

Does it affect you? It is not always a pleasant place whatever your stance is on the conflict.

We sell military equipment to many countries, Saudi included. You know Saudi who have the situation with Yemen?

Yes, I'll acknowledge Israels atrocities. The aid system is a dystopian farce. Its inhuman. Its unspeakably cruel. The aid should be going in even if the pudgy terrorists get some. War crimes have been commited. Hind Rajab broke my heart as much as the Bibas children did. BN doesn't want a 2ss. His kissing up to the religious extremists is a stain on a country specifically set up as secular.
For all these sins, and many more, Israeli actions and administration deserve to be criticized and prosecuted.

However. Israel is still a democracy. Her people may vote. Human rights are respected. The people are protected from war by an iron dome. Their governments care about them. And I'm a zionist. I do not believe they are settler colonialists, Israel is their homeland back after years of oppression and the worst actual genocide the world has ever seen.

What has Hamas done for its people?

Thats why I take Israels part in this.

Now, where's your list of Hamas atrocities carefully compiled like the Israeli one? You took time to compile that- did you take equal or more time to compile what Hamas has done to its own people?

Because it looks to me like you hate Israel more than you hate Hamas.

For the hundredth time, it’s not just about releasing the hostages.

Why do you keep pretending that’s all Netanyahu wanted so he should have been happy when Hamas offered hostages to be returned. Either you’re very slow at understanding- which I don’t think you are - or you’re just pretending to keep forgetting it was never JUST about the hostages. Hamas also needs to disarm and leave Gaza, at least the militants & any leaders still alive in Gaza.

Reminds me of this quote by Netanyahu from Historian Max Hastings autobiography:

Source: Max Hastings, Going to the Wars (London: Macmillan, 2000), p. 251

Nothing has changed, the plan has always been to take all the land.

I would also be interested in seeing your exhaustive list against Hamas @Wedonttalkaboutboris because I’ve never seen you post much criticism of Hamas but I’ve seen lots of threads with you posting the list you have against Israel, whether it’s the topic being discussed or not.

Like this one that was supposed to be a space to talk about mental health but No - you bought out the exhaustive list against Israel once again.

Yes I've got something to say.
Its all absolutely awful.
As are all wars.
No chance of burying it as you say I'd like to do, its the most visible conflict in the world.
I've also studied, amongst others, the Rwandan genocide, ww2, the Korean War, the Civil War in America, the War on Terror post 9/11, and I'm of the opinion that humans are aggressive apes with the ability to tell stories to excuse the most awful atrocities.
And in this particular war, Hamas are the least good option to support.

I cannot see how anyone could take the position that Israel is the worst, but I do keep trying.

The shooting people who try and fish gets me everytime. Like you are so committed to starving people that you won't even let them fish?! It's so psychopathic and wicked. It really leaves no doubt what the Palestinian people are up against.

It’s disgusting, isn’t it. I also read a doctor describe how, when the IDF left a hospital they’d occupied, they destroyed all the equipment- including cutting every single wire to the hospital’s only ultrasound machine. There was something particularly insidiously evil about that last detail.

And you ask why I repeat myself so much?

Just to be clear, I have condemned Hamas repeatedly, often more than some on these threads have ever condemned Israel. The reason I compiled Israel’s actions into a detailed list is because the UK/US governments arm, fund, and politically shield them. That makes documenting their crimes a civic responsibility. Highlighting Israel’s record doesn’t mean I ignore Hamas; it reflects where the power lies and where our own complicity exists.

maybe because Israel are committing a genocide?

So whos worse? Israel or Hamas?

And I'm guessing you'll say Hamas is worse? But if thats the case why direct all your time and hatred to denouncing Israel rather than calling for Hamas to just surrender? Or maybe I'm wrong?

Would you prefer a Hamas surrender and disarm and disband or an Israel ceasefire?

You can't keep using complicity as a reason unless youre suggesting civilians are complicit in the actions of their governments? Which I thought was established to be a bad road to go down?

And do you honestly think posting on mumsnet is a civic responsibility?

I haven’t seen it… anyway I can see that you are not at all interested in listing Hamas atrocities which was predictable.

If you hate Israel because you believe they are committing a genocide, who don’t you hate Hamas for committing a massacre?

I think Boris thinks Israel is worse.

Still, perhaps you could settle this question for us @Wedonttalkaboutboris about which side you consider worse?

It’s not about who’s ‘worse’- I condemn both.

I focus on Israel because they’re the ones killing civilians, levelling neighbourhoods, and blocking aid right now. Hamas’s crimes on Oct 7th were appalling, but they’re not the ones bombing hospitals today.

Nice try, but I’m not here to play your point-scoring game- my stance is consistent.

Short answer: there isn’t a single authoritative, public dataset that cleanly attributes every death “to Hamas” since 2008. Most reputable trackers count total Israeli/Palestinian fatalities without assigning a perpetrator for each case.

What we can say with confidence:

On October 7, 2023, Hamas and allied groups killed about 1,175 people in Israel (725 Israeli civilians, 71 foreign nationals, and 379 Israeli security personnel), based on Israel’s later‐revised totals.

From 2008 to September 2023 (pre–Oct 7), 308 Israelis were killed in conflict incidents involving Palestinians (this figure isn’t broken down by group; OCHA is the underlying source).

Putting those together gives a floor of roughly ~1,480 Israelis and foreign nationals killed since 2008, with the vast majority on Oct 7 attributable to Hamas and allied groups. But a precise “Hamas-only, since 2008” total isn’t available from public, reputable datasets, and pre–2023 figures typically mix multiple factions (Hamas, Islamic Jihad, others).

From ChatGpt on how many people have Hamas killed since 2008.

It's the little things that have no purpose at all but to increase suffering that really give away their intentions isn't it?

Its not point scoring. Im genuinely trying to understand why people seem to hate Israel more than they hate Hamas.

Hamas caused this. They chose to continue it, despite the unimaginable suffering of their own. Yes, I'm aware Israel is continuing it too. I don't absolve them, but their reasoning of trying to get rid of Hamas makes sense to me. I can't understand Hamas' reasons in the face of such suffering at all. Israel is looking after herself. Hamas is destroying Palestinian prospects.

I'm bowing out now. I hope you have a nice evening.

It's the baby formula that gets me.
And killing people that come to the aid of family members that have been shot.

Yes your stance is consistent.

You didn't write posts condemning Hama after 7/10/23 because all you care about is criticising Israel.

The paramedics who were killed sent to rescue Hind, despite receiving approval from Israeli authorities to proceed along a designated route- investigations also suggested that the Israeli tank fired at Hind’s car from a close distance, indicating that the occupants, including children, were visible to the tank crew.

And it’s very clear what you care about.

And there we have it:

“but their reasoning of trying to get rid of Hamas makes sense to me.”

Personally, I can’t ever imagine using that argument to justify cutting off electricity to newborn babies incubators, denying formula, and starving and bombing nearly 20,000 children- and counting.

Have a nice evening.

And - to be very clear, I have repeatedly condemned Hamas and it’s a disgusting outright lie to suggest I haven’t.

Oh god. I can't help myself.
Seriously you've condemned Hamas but you can't even admit they should just surrender and return the hostages, disarm and disband? Because the other option to end the war is an Israeli ceasefire and that leaves Hamas in place. And you can't admit that's not so good?
Your condemnation looks a lot like support.

It's hard to imagine that anyone actually believes that the things that you list will 'get rid of Hamas'.