France recognises Palestine

[PaxAeterna]

A big deal.
Macron said

The urgent thing today is that the war in Gaza stops and the civil population is saved

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/07/24/macron-anuncia-que-franca-ira-reconhecer-estado-da-palestina

What the actual fuck

Even if it’s only 500,000 people signing up to a mail list, it still shows people are expressing their interest and wanting to find out more. That’s half a million people in only a few days. It sounds like sour grapes to dismiss this.

It shows the Labour Party the level of discontent at their policies and direction of travel. It will give them food for thought.

Starmer’s diplomatic efforts with Trump appear to be bearing fruit:

“The U.S. president rejected Netanyahu’s characterization, saying: “Based on television, I would say not particularly, because those children look very hungry — but we’re giving a lot of money and a lot of food, and other nations are now stepping up.”
Starmer, who faces intense domestic pressure over Gaza, including from MPs in his own party, then chimed in to say: “It’s a humanitarian crisis. It’s an absolute catastrophe. Nobody wants to see that. And I think people in Britain are revolted at what they’re seeing on their screens.”
www.politico.eu/article/keir-starmer-donald-trump-gaza-catastrophe-uk-us-benjamin-netanyahu-israel/

We'll see. Its certainly not sour grapes. Corbyn's faction lost. You might say setting up a new party (that they can't come up with a name for) is sour grapes.

I think humanity passes through phases and we've come to an age where western society is so split and fragmented based on ideology that there's no shared values anymore.

I used to identify with the left because I am liberal in terms of gay rights, things like ensuring everyone has a fair wage, decent housing, equality for women and minorities and so on, but an unknown portion of the left has taken a disturbing turn.

Whether near "power" or not, this influence has actually been quite powerful. Trade unions, education, university politics, the crowds blocking my street every Saturday and my view is that they are anti West, anti women and really quite hateful to Jews and they're running unchecked.

It's such an ugly thing to witness, and so to be honest I think it's good if they have their own political party, so they can be quantified, and hopefully held much more accountable for the things that are said and done by their group.

I relish watching them being asked to answer in a proper way for it all. Right now they're acting at best like a 6th form politics group and at worst, frankly, like thugs. So I think they should be represented.

The "victim card" you say? 😆

Just don’t understand why some have been so keen to dismiss what he and anothers are doing?
It is extremely impressive 500,000 (!) signed up in a few days. To belittle this is suggestive of something verging on sour grape, as is suggesting half the people singing on must be journalists.

He has timed this well. It’s not just about having lost an election but about suggesting a different way at this point.

Oh come on. He is an utter failure. He has achieved nothing (outside of casework) in all his decades as an MP and was a dreadful, divisive, losing leader of the party. He couldn't organise his way out of a paper bag. He has a bit of a cult following for some unfathomable reason. It will cause some trouble but ultimately its a sideshow.

Utter failure?
And how do you judge others trying to make a difference to people’s lives?
If all he has done is help make his constituents lives better - than he’s not a failure. But he has achieved more than this. He was elected to become Labour’s leader. In the election, he reduced May’s seats, and increased Labour’s. May needed the DUP to govern.

Speaking as a nobody mumsnet user to another! 😅😂

By any objective measure of politics he is ultimately a failure leading Labour to its worst defeat since the 30s. He was never a minister, he did a couple of small unimpactful stints on select committees, he never guided a single piece of legislation through the commons. Even in his own movement he was often a bit of an embrassment, always turning up to demos but never really achieving anything significant, except the creation of his weird personality cult.

I love the fact that he remained MP for Islington North even when he stood as an independent. His constituents must love him.

I live the fact he makes people, especially the young, more engaged in politics. Oooh Jeremy Corbyn! 😁

And I am loving the fact people he does something to some mumsnet posters to take time out of their day to dismiss him as an utter failure!

Hope you love him if he ends up splitting the Labour vote Stripes.

It's all fun until the Tories are in power for another 5 years or Reform.

He will of course split the labour vote, and I think it's likely Reform will win. But hey ho, people should have a party that represents them.

I'm not sure that he made a significant difference to getting young people involved in serious politics. Student politics was always his level. Most of the Corbyn supporters I know are pretty old unreconstructed Bennites clinging to the past. Personally I'm more interested in politics that changes people's lives practically. If you can show me a practical achievement of Corbyn's I'm all ears. And I can never forgive him for mainstreaming antisemitism in the Labour Party.

So true. Middle class Corbyn and his posh momentum cronies can afford it though. They'll be alright Jack.

Anyway, it appears- as is the subject of this thread, that France and Saudi Arabia are attempting to push ahead with working towards a 2ss. I was not sure to what extent MBS felt strongly about the cause, although I have read that his population does want to see a settlement for the Palestinians. He also has the ear of the regional leaders, and I have read is keen for ME peace.

Interesting therefore that he is asking for a high bar in terms of a Palestinian state - one that the UN also thinks is legally due to Palestinians. Not sure how feasible this will be given Israel’s development in the WB:

Saudi Arabia’s foreign minister, Prince Faisal bin Farhan Al Saud, said that the kingdom was seeking World Bank approval to transfer $300m to Gaza and the West Bank to counter the dire humanitarian crisis in the territory.
He said that Palestinians had a “legitimate right” to the establishment of an independent state along the borders delineated in 1967 “with East Jerusalem as its capital”.
“This is not merely a political stance, but a firm conviction that an independent Palestinian state is the true key to peace in the region,” he said.

www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/28/saudi-arabia-france-un-palestine-statehood

Palestinians are ruled by two rival, unelected regimes: Hamas in Gaza and the PA in the West Bank. Neither takes orders from Riyadh. Hamas has already said they'll use a state as a stepping stone to more violence.

I'd imagin they’re saying it now is to look like moral leaders to their anti Israel population, while quietly negotiating ties with Israel. And chucking a very small bit of money at it. The US has provided over $2 billion in aid to Palestine since October 2023 and they have less spare cash.

What would be more helpful is if they offered asylum to anyone who wants to leave and make a safe and peaceful life away from the conflict which is a long way from over.

France doesn’t bring real leverage, funding, or regional trust. It participates in these discussions because it wants to be seen as globally important but actually they just look silly. As if France can negotiate a two state solution!

I think it's likely to do with the unrest of their populations, which like many countries in the West is completely as odds with their government.

I was listening to an interview with Alastair Crooke (former British Diplomat based in West Asia whom has helped with hostage negotiations in previous conflicts).
During the recent war in June caused by the unprovoked Israeli attack on Iran, a lot of the leaders contacted Trump to push for a ceasefire as the fact that Iran managed to inflict so much damage on Israel was making their positions untenable. They'd been telling their populations that they couldn't help Palestine as it would lead to regional war, they witnessed a lot of their populations supporting Iran and were worried it could lead to a new Arab spring as it made them look weak. Basically a Palestinian settlement is needed to stability.

“The US has provided over $2 billion in aid to Palestine since October 2023 and they have less spare cash.”

I hope for Israel’s sake that U.S. is not running of spare cash! It receives far more than Palestine.

I don’t think France by itself will be able to leverage anything, but it’s doing it in partnership with others. It enables difficult conversations within the EU and others, and consideration of how Palestinians’ rights are protected with regard to international law.

I see countries raising concerns about the humanitarian crisis in Gaza and those seeking rights for Palestinians by recognising its state as 2 sides of the same coin.

Now Saudi Arabia though, and Qatar, they are a completely different matter. Not in terms of influencing Israel, but indirectly through the U.S.

Israel doesn’t receive humanitarian aid from the US - it gets military aid, mostly for defence. Each Iron Dome interceptor costs $40,000 to $100,000. The rockets being fired at them are ften homemade, costing around $300 and likely paid for with atolen aid money.

So while terrorists launch cheap, indiscriminate rockets at innocent people, Israel spends tens of thousands per shot protecting its civilians rather tharetaliating. What a fun system.

Israel doesn’t receive humanitarian aid from the US -
Read their post again she never said they did

Never said she did.

My point was...

Gaza gets huge amounts of foreign aid just to keep people alive, because instead of building a functioning society, its leaders have spent decades obsessively trying to kill Israelis.

Israel gets even more money for eye-watering defence costs, because it has to protect itself from that very obsession.

If Gaza stopped being a terror-run enclave hellbent on destruction, neither would actually need the cash.

👍❤️ absolutely this

Once again you're telling half a story and yet others here are accused of showing a lack of balance

What's the other half of the story then?