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Conflict in the Middle East

How is forced starvation allowed?

1000 replies

Tinycatnoise · 23/07/2025 22:28

The top story in the BBC right now is the starvation of Gazans by Israel. The images are horrifying and not dissimilar to seeing those images of concentration camps in Nazi Germany. I cried seeing those and am crying now. I am sure someone will claim antisemitism because of this statement, but anyone looking at these images of starving children would agree.

How is this still going on? I feel like we are watching a genocide take place that the world has turning a blind eye to. The daily shooting by Israel of people trying to get aid too is just barbaric. If nothing is being done to stop this, what is the next horror that will unfold in the world that people will just accept?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce9xkx7vnmxo

OP posts:
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41
Alexandra2001 · 28/07/2025 14:29

Voxon · 28/07/2025 10:32

This wasn't a couple of rogue journalists. It was shared by the BBC, the Guardian, The Express, the New York Times

They exploited the image of a child with cerebral palsy to push a famine story in order to demonise Israel. Ignoring how disturbing that is, the child also seemingly has very specific medical needs - why not share those so the poor child could get publicity and help, rather than use him for propaganda?

Deck chairs and Titanic!

Children in Gaza are starving, needlessly because Netanyahu has blocked food aid.

That is the issue at hand.

Focus on that rather than this constant stream of diversion.

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 28/07/2025 14:42

Taken from a Guardian article by Nesrine Malik

How is forced starvation allowed?
Voxon · 28/07/2025 14:43

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 28/07/2025 14:14

This has already been answered on multiple threads and anyone with a medical background will know but starvation doesn’t affect everyone in the same way, at the same speed, or with the same visible signs- especially children.

Malnutrition hits children faster and harder because:

  • Their bodies are still developing
  • They have less body fat to draw on
  • Their immune systems are weaker
  • (Source: WHO, UNICEF, MSF, UNRWA- take your pick.)

And many of the adults you’re seeing are not “well-fed”, they’re surviving. You can be malnourished without looking skeletal. You can be hungry for months and still not “look like it” to someone skimming photos on the internet.
Many parents do go without and it still isn’t enough to protect their kids. That’s how dire the situation is.

A better question is:
Why is any child starving while trucks of food sit just miles away, deliberately blocked?

Edited

Malnutrition also hits people harder when they have a medical condition that causes that.

There are many reasons why children are starving while food sits there.

A key one is that the UN reported that 80% of it or stolen or intercepted.

Another key one is that the UN can’t or won’t operate without guarantees they can safely and properly deliver aid to civilians, and although Israel offered them military protection, they declined.

They have set parameters where really the ONLY way for food to be delivered sufficiently is a ceasefire or partial ceasefire or an end to fighting entirely.

Something Hamas could provide tomorrow if they were even slightly concerned about starving children.

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 28/07/2025 14:47

Voxon · 28/07/2025 14:43

Malnutrition also hits people harder when they have a medical condition that causes that.

There are many reasons why children are starving while food sits there.

A key one is that the UN reported that 80% of it or stolen or intercepted.

Another key one is that the UN can’t or won’t operate without guarantees they can safely and properly deliver aid to civilians, and although Israel offered them military protection, they declined.

They have set parameters where really the ONLY way for food to be delivered sufficiently is a ceasefire or partial ceasefire or an end to fighting entirely.

Something Hamas could provide tomorrow if they were even slightly concerned about starving children.

Can you provide a link to the UN report that says 80% of food has been stolen or intercepted?

Alexandra2001 · 28/07/2025 14:48

Voxon · 28/07/2025 14:43

Malnutrition also hits people harder when they have a medical condition that causes that.

There are many reasons why children are starving while food sits there.

A key one is that the UN reported that 80% of it or stolen or intercepted.

Another key one is that the UN can’t or won’t operate without guarantees they can safely and properly deliver aid to civilians, and although Israel offered them military protection, they declined.

They have set parameters where really the ONLY way for food to be delivered sufficiently is a ceasefire or partial ceasefire or an end to fighting entirely.

Something Hamas could provide tomorrow if they were even slightly concerned about starving children.

80% ?? When was this?

Have you a link on this? & where have they stored it? Hasn't IDF destroyed almost all of Hamas operations and centres?

Reports i've seen is Hamas has not stolen very much at all.

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 28/07/2025 14:49

If anyone is interested, take a look at the work some of the charities distributing formula to Palestinian families are doing on instagram.

Although- trigger warning- lots of evidence of very visibly starving babies, with no other medical needs (because apparently those babies don’t count) on there.

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 28/07/2025 14:51

In fact, the opposite was published only recently

www.nytimes.com/2025/07/26/world/middleeast/hamas-un-aid-theft.html

PinkBobby · 28/07/2025 14:52

Voxon · 28/07/2025 11:20

I'm middle aged and I've never seen the BBC or the Guardian pass off photos of terminally ill or very sick kids as evidence of mass starvation before. Have you?

I don't take any news source as gospel, but I'm highly dubious of anyone who takes Hamas' word over Israel's. Israel is a massively more reliable source and that has little to do with ideology and everything to do with accountability, transparency, and structural realities.

Israel has a robust, independent media ecosystem. Outlets like Haaretz, The Times of Israel, and Jerusalem Post frequently criticise the government and military. You’ll regularly see investigative reports exposing Israeli failures, corruption, or misconduct, including during wartime. That kind of internal scrutiny simply doesn’t exist in Gaza, where the press operates under Hamas control and dissenting journalists risk imprisonment or worse.

Israel is a liberal democracy with functioning courts, civilian oversight, and active opposition parties. Policies and military decisions are routinely challenged, sometimes overturned, through legal channels, including by NGOs operating within the country. Contrast this with Hamas, an authoritarian regime with no elections since 2006, that violently suppresses dissent.

Israel often accompanies claims with verifiable data: satellite imagery, drone footage, intercepted communications, and footage from bodycams. When it makes accusations (e.g., about weapons stored in hospitals or aid diversion), it's typically backed by documentation. In contrast, many claims from Gaza rely on anonymous "local sources" or unverifiable videos from one-sided actors with zero transparency.

Israel is under constant international observation. Every misstep is picked apart by dozens of hostile media outlets, UN bodies, and NGOs. The sheer level of scrutiny makes outright fabrication extremely risky. Hamas, by contrast, controls access and narrative in Gaza, and expels or threatens journalists who don’t toe the party line. That's not a free press, it's propaganda. And they don't give two shits if they're caught lying because no one expects anything else.

Israeli officials and media have retracted or corrected false claims in the past. For example, the IDF corrected early reports in previous conflicts when further evidence emerged. This willingness to revise based on fact is absent in authoritarian regimes, where narrative takes priority over truth.

In Israel, a lie can lead to legal consequences, resignations, and media backlash. In Gaza, telling the truth about Hamas's actions, like stealing aid or using civilian infrastructure for terror, can cost a journalist their life. That alone tells you where honesty is more likely to survive.

In short: no source is perfect. But Israel, by design, operates under democratic pressure, internal critique, and global accountability. That makes its version of events far more testable, and usually, more reliable, than a regime that answers to no one.

The UN and NGOS are not fully honest with the world. In the fullness of time there will have to be accountability and serious questions answered, but for now I personally do not take their word on anything because I've caught them pants down too many times.

I’d have to look into apologies they’ve issues for misusing/incorrect reporting to see re the bbc. I’m not a regular guardian reader so I couldn’t speak to their reporting. But generally speaking, I don’t pay attention to the images as much as the information they are reporting. That together with other information from other sources provides me with a picture of what’s going on.

Please tell me when you have caught these NGOs and charities ‘with their pants down’?

I used to think being a western democracy meant you were the good guy but we live in a time when a convicted felon who spreads misinformation almost daily is president of the US. Not to mention the fact that American contractors tortured people in Iraq. Just because they are a democracy, it doesn’t mean they don’t commit terrible acts. It’s naive to think that’s the case and I think you really need to reflect on the real reason why you’re not questioning Israeli sources. Have they not been caught ‘with their pants down’ too?

The world is depressingly misformed by many sources and I don’t hold any government higher than another, Now, of course I understand that a terrorist organisation is not a trustworthy source of information. But I will not assume Israel is either. They have spread misinformation and lied about what is happening to innocent people. They have backtracked a few times when evidence is too overwhelming to ignore. And even if they retract statements, the damage to a certain extent has already been done. People might not see the retraction and the false info, thanks to sm has gone global.

And finally, if Israel is under all this scrutiny and is being called out for war crimes and atrocities, does this make them the victims of propaganda or is it the system you describe working as it should?

PinkBobby · 28/07/2025 14:54

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 28/07/2025 14:49

If anyone is interested, take a look at the work some of the charities distributing formula to Palestinian families are doing on instagram.

Although- trigger warning- lots of evidence of very visibly starving babies, with no other medical needs (because apparently those babies don’t count) on there.

Edited

Are you sure they’re thin enough? Apparently some people believe there is some sort of threshold before I should feel anything…

For anyone new who hasn’t read more of the thread, I’m afraid this is actually what people in this thread are doing. Looking at the pictures of people in a war zone and deciding they’re not thin enough to be starving.

Kakeandkake · 28/07/2025 15:04

Even Israel have only given at most figures of Hamas intercepting 20% or max 25% of the aid. They haven't given much evidence for even that figure. USAID also seems to dispute this.

Where did you get 80% from?

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 28/07/2025 15:06

Kakeandkake · 28/07/2025 15:04

Even Israel have only given at most figures of Hamas intercepting 20% or max 25% of the aid. They haven't given much evidence for even that figure. USAID also seems to dispute this.

Where did you get 80% from?

I think we’re going to be waiting a while.

Alexandra2001 · 28/07/2025 15:06

Kakeandkake · 28/07/2025 15:04

Even Israel have only given at most figures of Hamas intercepting 20% or max 25% of the aid. They haven't given much evidence for even that figure. USAID also seems to dispute this.

Where did you get 80% from?

Anything to justify the starvation of Gazans i'm afraid.

PinkBobby · 28/07/2025 15:08

Anonimummy · 28/07/2025 13:22

Absolutely. It’s thanks to this mentality that this war has continued for so long IMO. Hamas are well aware of the public support they have and also that these people will blindly accept the propaganda coming out of Gaza, and use it to put pressure on governments with public opinion.

They are literally enabling terrorists to use their people as human sacrifices.

While shouting about how much they care about the babies.

If I wasn’t alive to see it myself playing out in real time, I wouldn’t believe it tbh.

Hamas does not have popular support. The innocent people in Gaza do. For the millionth time, if you can provide me with your info sources, that apparently aren’t allowed to include anyone apart from Israeli sources, I’d really appreciate it. Because it’s getting boring hearing the same old argument with zero evidence. There are people who have at least tried to put together a proper argument and I’ve read their posts with interest.

And I’ll ask again, if Hamas are using humans as shields, is it acceptable for Israel to shoot at/bomb those shields? Because I feel like if a baby was literally being held hostage and held up as a shield, the police wouldn’t just shoot the baby. If they did, there would be uproar and the officer would be fired and arrested.

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 28/07/2025 15:10

Alexandra2001 · 28/07/2025 14:29

Deck chairs and Titanic!

Children in Gaza are starving, needlessly because Netanyahu has blocked food aid.

That is the issue at hand.

Focus on that rather than this constant stream of diversion.

Yes, it is disgusting that Israel’s blockade on food and aid has stopped this helpless baby from getting the specialist formula he needs to survive.

Voxon · 28/07/2025 15:19

Being a liberal democracy doesn’t mean a country is perfect or incapable of wrongdoing - it means it’s far harder to get away with it. There are checks and balances: a free press that investigates, an opposition that scrutinises, courts that can intervene, and a public that can protest. Just like in the UK, leaders are constantly held to account.

Now compare that to Hamas - a terror group with no transparency, no press freedom, no independent judiciary, no opposition, and no public accountability. They can say whatever they like, and no one within their system is in a position to challenge it.

So if you're asking who is more likely to spread unchecked disinformation, it's not the side constantly under a microscope. Whatever you think of Trump he does also live within a nation that's infrastructure is not the same as Gaza. I really do hope you see that.

Here are several documented examples of misleading or false claims by UN officials or NGOs during the current conflict as examples if why I simply do not take their word..

Senior UN official falsely warned that 14,000 babies in Gaza would die within 48 hours, this was later corrected to refer to children at risk over the next year.

UNRWA has continued operating despite credible evidence that some of its staff participated in or supported the October 7 attacks and have refused to investigate.

Famine predictions by the IPC and OCHA were based on flawed data that ignored large-scale aid deliveries and were later revised. UNHRC’s Commission of Inquiry relied on biased, unverified sources from politicised NGOs and excluded Israeli evidence entirely.

These examples highlight how even respected bodies have contributed to misinformation, with serious consequences and I think as I said in the fullness of time there will be serious questions to answer.

PinkBobby · 28/07/2025 15:25

ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend · 28/07/2025 15:11

Even Trump recognises that there is real starvation in Gaza. No idea why he's suggesting to set up food stations was that not the GHF?
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/ckg42k37e2pt?post=asset%3A406942eb-7b84-4e27-a8d5-c3f46d823400#post

Shock horror - he’s been at the negotiation table but still hasn’t caught up on GHF/food stations. This is why we don’t just give democracies a free pass anymore.

@Voxon is the following a somewhat useful/trustworthy source in terms of what’s going on? Genuinely interested in where you draw the line and whether things like this shift your opinion/perspective re Israel. Obviously I know it’s not going to change your mind but just interested if it in any way factors into your thinking.
https://archive.ph/u48Ro

In summary (from the BBC):

B’Tselem analysis of Israel's policies alongside statements from politicians and military leaders "leads to the unequivocal conclusion that Israel is taking co-ordinated action to intentionally destroy Palestinian society in the Gaza Strip".

PHRI also analysed Israel's military campaign, with a focus on the health systems, and says it shows evidence of a "deliberate and systemic dismantling of Gaza's health and life-sustaining systems".

Both organisations accuse Israel of genocide.

Alexandra2001 · 28/07/2025 15:28

Senior UN official falsely warned that 14,000 babies in Gaza would die within 48 hours, this was later corrected to refer to children at risk over the next year

Oh so that makes the situation any less urgent does it?

UNRWA has continued operating despite credible evidence that some of its staff participated in or supported the October 7 attacks and have refused to investigate

They employ 1000s of Gazans, yes a very few turned out to be Hamas supporters, they were sacked, an investigation was done, why do you keep with your misinformation? if you don't know, don't post....

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/08/1152841

That doesn't make the work of UNRWA any less valid.

UN completes investigation on UNRWA staff

The UN said on Monday that nine staff working for its Palestine refugee agency UNRWA will be sacked because they may have been involved in the 7 October 2023 Hamas-led attacks against Israel. 

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/08/1152841

PinkBobby · 28/07/2025 15:32

Voxon · 28/07/2025 15:19

Being a liberal democracy doesn’t mean a country is perfect or incapable of wrongdoing - it means it’s far harder to get away with it. There are checks and balances: a free press that investigates, an opposition that scrutinises, courts that can intervene, and a public that can protest. Just like in the UK, leaders are constantly held to account.

Now compare that to Hamas - a terror group with no transparency, no press freedom, no independent judiciary, no opposition, and no public accountability. They can say whatever they like, and no one within their system is in a position to challenge it.

So if you're asking who is more likely to spread unchecked disinformation, it's not the side constantly under a microscope. Whatever you think of Trump he does also live within a nation that's infrastructure is not the same as Gaza. I really do hope you see that.

Here are several documented examples of misleading or false claims by UN officials or NGOs during the current conflict as examples if why I simply do not take their word..

Senior UN official falsely warned that 14,000 babies in Gaza would die within 48 hours, this was later corrected to refer to children at risk over the next year.

UNRWA has continued operating despite credible evidence that some of its staff participated in or supported the October 7 attacks and have refused to investigate.

Famine predictions by the IPC and OCHA were based on flawed data that ignored large-scale aid deliveries and were later revised. UNHRC’s Commission of Inquiry relied on biased, unverified sources from politicised NGOs and excluded Israeli evidence entirely.

These examples highlight how even respected bodies have contributed to misinformation, with serious consequences and I think as I said in the fullness of time there will be serious questions to answer.

Yes, exactly. It is harder to get away with. Hence why Israel is getting a hard time at the moment. They are being held accountable.

And again, I agreed that Hamas is not a trustworthy source of information. Not sure why you’ve felt the need to use that comparison again as I’ve already said that I believe Israel and Hamas will spread misinformation as they are the two warring parties (not to mention the fact that Hamas is a terrorist organisation).

And my point re Trump/the USA or Israel (or any other Western country) is that being from that country doesn’t make you some sort of special person. Anyone is capable of lying or spreading misinformation for their own political gain.

I will look in the U.N. examples. Out of interest, if I listed a similar set of examples for the Israeli government, would that impact your view?

PinkBobby · 28/07/2025 15:40

Alexandra2001 · 28/07/2025 15:28

Senior UN official falsely warned that 14,000 babies in Gaza would die within 48 hours, this was later corrected to refer to children at risk over the next year

Oh so that makes the situation any less urgent does it?

UNRWA has continued operating despite credible evidence that some of its staff participated in or supported the October 7 attacks and have refused to investigate

They employ 1000s of Gazans, yes a very few turned out to be Hamas supporters, they were sacked, an investigation was done, why do you keep with your misinformation? if you don't know, don't post....

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/08/1152841

That doesn't make the work of UNRWA any less valid.

Yes, it’s like when they discover individuals within the NHS who hurt their patients or nursery workers who hurt children - you don’t mistrust the entire NHS or daycare system. Awful people can get anywhere, sadly, because awful people look and act just like the rest of us. I’m not sure it’s logical to disregard all the UNRWA’s work because of that example.

In the first example, they corrected their mistake/misformation as Israel did when they ‘realised’ they’d killed innocent aid workers. I’m not disregarding your argument - I can see why this made you question it as a source @Voxon but I don’t understand why Israel acting in a similar way doesn’t mean you question them too. I’m not asking you to believe Hamas (because I don’t) or to stop questioning sources. I just don’t get why all this critical thinking isn’t directed at Israel too.

Voxon · 28/07/2025 16:11

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 28/07/2025 14:47

Can you provide a link to the UN report that says 80% of food has been stolen or intercepted?

The fact people are having a long debate about this and core, vital facts like this from the UN are not open knowledge is so indicative of the problem.

https://info.un2720.org/

According to the UN2720 Monitoring & Tracking Report, covering May 19 – July 23, 2025, 85% of UN aid trucks were intercepted (did not reach their distribution point at all).

More specifically, 1,404 trucks carrying over 19,000 tons of aid were intercepted during transit in Gaza, which the UN describes as either:

  • peacefully by hungry people, or
  • forcefully by armed actors, including Hamas-affiliated looters.

This corresponds to approximately 85% of the UN-manifested humanitarian aid trucks during that period, a staggering figure, and a direct admission from UN-tracked data.

Voxon · 28/07/2025 16:19

I won't be holding my breath for the apology!

Voxon · 28/07/2025 16:25

PinkBobby · 28/07/2025 15:25

Shock horror - he’s been at the negotiation table but still hasn’t caught up on GHF/food stations. This is why we don’t just give democracies a free pass anymore.

@Voxon is the following a somewhat useful/trustworthy source in terms of what’s going on? Genuinely interested in where you draw the line and whether things like this shift your opinion/perspective re Israel. Obviously I know it’s not going to change your mind but just interested if it in any way factors into your thinking.
https://archive.ph/u48Ro

In summary (from the BBC):

B’Tselem analysis of Israel's policies alongside statements from politicians and military leaders "leads to the unequivocal conclusion that Israel is taking co-ordinated action to intentionally destroy Palestinian society in the Gaza Strip".

PHRI also analysed Israel's military campaign, with a focus on the health systems, and says it shows evidence of a "deliberate and systemic dismantling of Gaza's health and life-sustaining systems".

Both organisations accuse Israel of genocide.

B’Tselem is a human rights organisation. I consider it as reliable a source as any other - in the sense you must take into account that it's ultimately a left-wing activist outfit with clear political stance, so its findings should be read critically, like any source, with an understanding of its mission and perspective.

PinkBobby · 28/07/2025 16:28

Voxon · 28/07/2025 16:11

The fact people are having a long debate about this and core, vital facts like this from the UN are not open knowledge is so indicative of the problem.

https://info.un2720.org/

According to the UN2720 Monitoring & Tracking Report, covering May 19 – July 23, 2025, 85% of UN aid trucks were intercepted (did not reach their distribution point at all).

More specifically, 1,404 trucks carrying over 19,000 tons of aid were intercepted during transit in Gaza, which the UN describes as either:

  • peacefully by hungry people, or
  • forcefully by armed actors, including Hamas-affiliated looters.

This corresponds to approximately 85% of the UN-manifested humanitarian aid trucks during that period, a staggering figure, and a direct admission from UN-tracked data.

Thank you for sharing - where about did you get this quote from:

  • forcefully by armed actors, including Hamas-affiliated looters. I can’t see it on the report but I’m looking at the infographic ones and maybe you’re quoting from elsewhere.

I would be very interested to know what percentage are group 1 (hungry people) v group 2 (armed people, potentially Hamas).

PinkBobby · 28/07/2025 16:32

Voxon · 28/07/2025 16:25

B’Tselem is a human rights organisation. I consider it as reliable a source as any other - in the sense you must take into account that it's ultimately a left-wing activist outfit with clear political stance, so its findings should be read critically, like any source, with an understanding of its mission and perspective.

Okay, thank you. If you do have any sources to share in terms of where you are getting your ‘pro-Israel’ news, I really am interested. You clearly think about all this carefully and yet without sources I still struggle to understand how the evidence doesn’t make you more critical of Israel and less suspicious of anyone who criticises them.

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