How is forced starvation allowed?

[Tinycatnoise]

The top story in the BBC right now is the starvation of Gazans by Israel. The images are horrifying and not dissimilar to seeing those images of concentration camps in Nazi Germany. I cried seeing those and am crying now. I am sure someone will claim antisemitism because of this statement, but anyone looking at these images of starving children would agree.

How is this still going on? I feel like we are watching a genocide take place that the world has turning a blind eye to. The daily shooting by Israel of people trying to get aid too is just barbaric. If nothing is being done to stop this, what is the next horror that will unfold in the world that people will just accept?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce9xkx7vnmxo

It’s bizarre. And given statehood is awarded if negotiations fail why would Hamas try to resolve anything?

At least France has said the opposite.

I am not sure why people cite international law really. Partly because it should be pretty obvious that it is against international law for the terrorists in the country next door to act on an agenda of destroying your country and killing your citizens. And if they do, you have both the right and the duty to defend your citizens.
Yes you've the right to defend yourself but we're talking about decades long occupation which Israel considers indefinite. Plus it does not work and most likely contributed to preventing any pathway to peace

Blockades, including restrictions on goods, are permitted under international humanitarian law in certain circumstances, such as when they serve a legitimate military objective (e.g. stopping weapons smuggling),
Have a look at what is and has been blocked it extends well beyond a military objective

When Hamas fires rockets, kills civilians, or crosses into Israel to commit mass murder, Israel is legally entitled to respond. Self-defence applies until the threat is neutralised, not just until international observers feel uncomfortable. They can respond to defend and attempt to neutralise the threat what they can't do is break humanitarian law and commit war crimes.

What do you define as things that are making international observers feel uncomfortable that is self defence?

I suspect a lot of people would like option 1, and are rooting for Hamas to succeed in their mission of destroying Israel - I'm sure there are people that want Israel destroyed just as there are extremists that want Gaza destroyed but it is in the minority and the international community would obviously not stand by if Hamas were in a position to destroy Israel.

Option 2 is to use force - and get condemned for civilian harm, even when Hamas causes it. Israel is not condemned if they keep with international law

Option 3 is to negotiate - but negotiation is pointless because the people they are negotiating with have openly said they only want to destroy Israel and accept nothing less. - In my view dialogue is never pointless it is long, slow and difficult but not pointless if you want long-term solutions.

International law gives Israel tools to defend itself - but no amount of legal framework removes the core problem: Hamas is committed to endless war. And no one has yet offered a better solution.
Israel will continue to be supported to defend themselves but maybe doing a full rethink as to what is likely to improve the situation and what isn't. Illegal settlements, relaxing the occupation so ordinary Palestinians have more freedoms as controlling civilians is not conducive to building trust and improving relations, committing to negotiating a two state solution.

Yes, sorry, I need to look into what KS said more, it didn't make immediate sense to me. Thats why I haven't responded to you!

Personally I think the 2SS is the only way out of the bloodshed and I want a state for Palestine, if only the government of that State isn't commited to violence.

Agree I can’t see it working for the people of Gaza without a legitimate gov. Anything that leaves Hamas in place is not good for them or Israel.

Hamas put out celebratory quotes on KS’ statement. That is not good for anyone, bar them.

I don't give a shit what the Iranians and other Hamas supporters think. I do give a shit about Hamas apologism in the UK.

'Hamas put out celebratory quotes on KS’ statement. That is not good for anyone, bar them'

Just utterly shameful of Starmer, stupid even by his own stupid standards.

We know if the blockade is removed that Hamas will import weapons and kill Israeli people - because they say so.

We know Hamas is fighting to destroy Israel and not fighting for a two state solution - because they say so.

So what is it you think Israel should do?

Let them destroy Israel and kill Israelis?

Or is there another solution that you have any evidence at all Hamas would accept?

I do give a shit about Hamas apologism in the UK.

If that is directed at me you'll need to highlight where I have because I've said twice that I view them as a terrorist organisation and that was why I was quite shocked that the majority of international countries have not designated them as one, ate you?

Lets leave it at something we both agree on.

On who can end the bloodshed, we wont agree.

Not remotely shocked because I have been paying attention for more than 5 minutes. Hence why I have to point out at least once a day it seems that the UN is not some magical arbiter of truth and justice but simply a collective of the countries of the world, many of which have very deep flaws.

Why does letting in food/medical aid mean weapons for Hamas?

Israel is a modern techno savvy state, it can employ basic security checks on Aid trucks, how does it manage on the West Bank? or on the Lebanon/Israel border?

You re just making excuses now, which will keep Gazans hungry.... why?

OMG
If the blockade is removed anything gets in.

UN is not some magical arbiter of truth and justice but simply a collective of the countries of the world, many of which have very deep flaws.
Well we all have flaws some flaws are worse and more serious than others. I think the UN of course has issues, the veto powers at the security council is definitely one for me but I don't taint the ordinary workers on the ground doing the grassroots work and evidencing their experience with the politics at the top.

Nope. Can't make it make sense.

🤯

Sorry, not really sure what your last comment has to do with what I was talking about. I think failing to recognise Hamas as a terrorist organisation is a bit more than a 'flaw'. I can't see where this is going tbh.

Pls don't be ridiculous, allowing in Aid trucks doesn't mean there are no checks on what is in the lorries....

Stop making excuses.

Ok I think if you had an issue with the way @Anonimummy was posting you should be restricting your comments to them rather than saying "I have asked so many times for people who remain staunchly pro -Israel to provide sources for that side of the debate. I have had very little response to this question which makes me feel that lots of people are leaning on their preconceived ideas of Israel and Palestine(or worse, their preconceived ideas of Muslims) rather than looking at the current body of evidence and concluding that Israel's actions are deeply problematic.

You use a lot of words and are throwing around a few accusations there. But you haven't provided any evidence yourself for what seems to be your premise that the pro Israel people on here tend not to provide sources to back up their views. I think unless you provide evidence on your theory then really, it's just your opinion.

But you're right, there is a lot of agreement too.

Yes, I can see what type of political they are;

2024 - Australia must use sanctions to hold Israel accountable for conduct in Gaza, MSF chief says.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/28/australia-sanctions-israel-gaza-war-palestine-benjamin-netanyahu-msf

However, there is obviously a conflict of interest if some of the front line staff they rely on for information, such as Dr Ghassan Abu-Sittah, are activists holding strong anti-Israel/pro-Palestinian views;

https://www.thejc.com/news/revealed-university-rector-heaped-praise-on-hang-glider-martyrs-who-carried-out-terror-attack-plvswcni

Some even apparently terrorists themselves;

2024 - Islamic Jihad rocket maker MSF staffer^

Military says Fadi al-Wadiya was electronics and chemistry expert in terror group; MSF issues a denial, leading IDF to release photo of him in PIJ uniform.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-slain-gazan-named-as-doctors-without-borders-staffer-was-islamic-jihad-rocket-maker/

Where have i excused Hamas? i haven't but still you make up shit.

I'll quote you directly for the third time-

"Only one side can facilitate this and thats the Israeli Govt, not Hamas, as they are a terrorist organisation and do not operate inside normal democratic values.. to put it mildly.'

This is you excusing Hamas for not ending the war because they are terrorists and do not operate inside normal democratic values.

I still dont understand why.

You re expecting rational actions from a terrorist set up?

I don't and btw that isn't excusing their actions, its reality.

Excusing their actions would be like me saying something along the lines of "Well Yes Hamas do bad things but in the context of IDF aggression, it's understandable..."

Which i never have and never will, they are are evil.

Be serious.

Yes, I'm expecting rational actions from people in power- why aren't you? Because if you don't expect rational actions from these people then its obvious youre making excuses for them. Why?

Other excuses are available too- thanks for pointing that out.

Why do you expect more from the Israeli men in power than you do from the Palestinian men in power? They're all men after all?