There is no clean water left in Gaza

[Wedonttalkaboutboris]

There is currently no access to safe drinking water in Gaza. Families are being forced to drink contaminated water from sewage or agricultural runoff.

This is a man-made humanitarian catastrophe- not a natural disaster. This isn’t just a crisis, it’s a form of collective punishment.

• https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-faces-man-made-drought-water-systems-collapse-unicef-says-2025-06-20/
• https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gazans-struggle-find-water-clean-sources-become-increasingly-scarce-2025-04-11/
• https://theprint.in/world/gaza-faces-man-made-drought-as-water-systems-collapse-unicef-says/2664470/

I will be having a good day - a much more fruitful one, than wasting it on here.

Eh? On second thoughts, please don't try and provide clarity.

Gaza has never been self sufficient in food or anything else. They rely heavily, and always have done, on food aid from the UN and other agencies. They have never produced enough electricity of their own, and instead have relied on Israel for electricity supply - about 50% of their supply.
What doesn't get discussed much here on mumsnet is why Israel, having been invaded by Gazans, who massacred and kidnapped Israeli citizens, is still somehow expected to provide food and fuel to an enemy it is at war with.
Here some factual information about the situation re: water and fuel in Gaza.
https://www.pinskercentre.org/research-and-publications/report-water-electricity-and-fuel-in-gaza-what-role-does-israel-play

You equated that, not my words yours, I’ve never said I’m pro Palestinian that was your assumption because I said killing kids is wrong.

The Pinsker Centre, named for a zionist - hardly an unbiased source fgs.

In 1967 Israel issued several military orders aimed at controlling the water resources of the West Bank and preventing Palestinian from digging new wells and from building water infrastructures without Israeli permits.

Hardly surprising is it when Israel write the laws preventing Palestinians from having control.

So if you don’t see yourself as pro Palestinian and you definitely don’t come across as pro Israel, how would you describe yourself - neutral?

We've moved on from water in Gaza.

I read that the Oslo accords in the 90's envisioned gradual ceding of the west bank to Palestinian control after Jordan relinquished it's claim to occupation in 1988 (after losing it in the 1967 war). Google tells me Israeli settlement ramped up in 2006, the second intafada was 2000-2005 and election of hamas in Gaza was 2006. These things may be related, like the election of a right wing biased government in response to terrorist threats and assassinations.

People excuse palestinian violence as a reaction to Israeli action but not Israeli security crackdowns as a reaction to palestinian violence. Israeli security protocols are similar to other middle eastern countries, probably more reasonable than many ( Assad in Syria, Hussein in Iraq, Khomeini in Iran)- the palestinian authority are not exactly angels,( but then they do have to deal with hamas). It's a challenge when tribal identities start to draw state boundaries as we can see in Syria, Turkey, Iraq, one of the challenges is to form a cohesive national identity, that seems to be where religion comes in for many of them, a bit fifo.

Of course your viewpoint will depend on whether you think Israel should exist as a country at all, and whether you view it as a white colonialist project or a place for Jewish people to make their last stand in the middle east.

@Crystalight
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/

This is really informative based on your post. Shows how water was always something else used to control Palestinians.

Israel is withholding food, water, and medical supplies- under international law, that’s a war crime.

What do Hamas have to do with starving newborns in incubators?

What do Hamas have to do with children being killed at aid distribution points?

The suffering in Gaza is the result of a brutal blockade and military assault that targets civilians.

@Twiglets1 Protecting Jewish children should never require the mass killing of Palestinian children. That logic is not defence, it’s dehumanisation.

The vast majority of people in Gaza are not Hamas. Nearly 20,000 children have been killed, many in their homes, schools, and even while seeking food or shelter. A kindergarten was bombed just this morning. Are they all militants too?

If your solution to a violent group is to bomb hospitals, starve newborns, flatten entire neighbourhoods, and slaughter civilians en masse you’re not fighting terror, you’re perpetuating it.

The IDF has repeatedly bombed hospitals, civilian shelters, refugee camps, and food queues, even after being given coordinates by the UN. If your solution to a violent group is to starve a population, destroy their healthcare, and kill thousands of civilians- newsflash: you aren’t fighting terror, you are terror.

👏👏

And of course by those actions you're embedding understandable feelings of rage and vengeance for generations to come - which is another reason Israeli government is targeting children.

I never said protecting Jewish children should require the mass killing of Palestinian children. What I said is that the Israeli government and IDF mainly have respect for the lives of their own Israeli children, which you would expect in any war.

So you are saying the logic is not defence, its dehumanisation about something I never said.

Other things I never said or implied:

That the vast majority of people in Gaza are Hamas.
That children in kindergarten are militants.

So you are just making shit up about my posts and the scary thing is someone is clapping you for it.

I hear you saying you didn’t explicitly say those things but the logic in your post still rests on a defence of actions that have resulted in the mass killing of civilians, most of whom are not Hamas. That’s the uncomfortable part.

If you say Hamas must be destroyed at all costs and then defend the military campaign responsible for flattening entire neighbourhoods, starving civilians, and killing 20,000 children. What do you think that defence implies?

I’m not saying you personally want Palestinian children dead. But we can’t keep treating these deaths as tragic side effects of good intentions. When hospitals, schools, food lines, shelters, even aid convoys are being bombed repeatedly, after their coordinates are known, it’s not enough to say, “well, they’re aiming at Hamas.” There’s a point where that becomes complicity, not defence.

Things you have said:
“That is why Hamas have to be destroyed because they have no respect for the lives of Jewish children or the lives of Palestinian children either, it seems.”

“I agreed that [Netanyahu] needed to give a ‘strong response’ to show Hamas that would not be tolerated and to significantly weaken their power.”

“I strongly believe Israel has a right to defend itself from hostile attacks and that is why the military abilities of Hamas had to be destroyed.”

You have repeatedly justified the military campaign (even while claiming Netanyahu is going too far now) and downplayed the asymmetry by suggesting Israel’s stronger defence systems are the only reason Palestinian children aren’t alive in equal numbers. That might not be your intention but intention doesn’t cancel impact.

Please just don't put words in my mouth again that I didn't say and then use them (the words I didn't say) to suggest dehumanisation.

When someone says Hamas must be destroyed and defends the campaign that’s killed tens of thousands of civilians, including nearly 20,000 children, that position inevitably raises questions about what level of civilian death is being accepted (or overlooked) in the name of ‘defence’.

It’s not about putting words in your mouth. It’s about taking seriously what those words mean in practice, for real people. If that feels uncomfortable, it should. Maybe you need to be a reminded that behind Israel’s ‘defence’ is 200,000 babies and children. Maybe you should look some of them up- to sit with the scale of what’s been justified. Ask yourself what kind of world sees this and calls it a necessary response to Hamas.

As I explained on the other thread, I have lost interest in engaging with you as you have put words into my mouth once too often today so I no longer consider you could be debating in good faith.

Please don't quote me again and if you do I will ignore it. And yes, I will return the favour.

That’s your choice. I’ve done my best to respond to the implications of what was said, not to distort them. Refusing to engage because someone names the consequences of the logic you’re defending isn’t moral high ground. It’s avoidance.

This conversation was never about imaginary points for me- it’s about real people, especially children, dying in staggering numbers. I won’t apologise for bringing that back into focus.

They're trapped in Gaza. The population can't leave so Israel effectively keep them imprisoned. Even prisoners get food and water.

Read The Geneva Convention on treatment of civilians during wartime.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMP4lNKsasm/

Let the food in !!!!

Hamas are the reason suffering is continuing in Gaza. Free Gaza from Hamas

My god, that's horrific. That poor baby. I can't imagine how their parents are feeling right now(if they are still alive) watching their baby fade away slowly in front them.

Only Israel is starving babies. The food is there, sitting in warehouses. They are physically blocking baby formula from getting in—not Hamas.
Israel.

Even if someone believes Hamas is somehow responsible for feeding Gazans, that doesn’t explain why aid from the UN or other humanitarian groups—meant solely for civilians—is being prevented from reaching babies.

That’s a separate issue. Under international law, Israel is still responsible as the occupying power to allow humanitarian aid through.
Do you think there’s ever a justification to block baby formula from infants—even if your worst enemy is on the other side?

If Hamas disappeared tomorrow, do you truly believe Israel would stop bombing and open the borders fully?

Right now, there are parents dissolving biscuits in water to feed newborns because there’s no formula.

How does that sit with you?