Anti-semitism in the UK

[Lolapusht]

Published yesterday I believe.

Evidence of anti-Semitism in the UK

Not sure if that link will work so…

https://x.com/nicolelampert/status/1944147294917439912?s=61&t=_cKTNp_TyAyzDViEOCJDFQ

Beautifully put

I try occasionally, but each time I leave it for a bit to see if it’s improved any, I quickly realise it’s still a cesspit of ill-formed narratives and blatant hatred all wrapped up in a pretty virtue-signalling package. I don’t know how many protestors I’ve seen who can’t name the river or the sea, then get all shirty before storming off muttering something about Zionist scum or “not getting into that debate”. Scratch the surface and there’s not much there.

I think it’s the last Japanese soldier again. They have to keep going with their beliefs otherwise their whole ethos crumbles. That’s how you end up with people supporting Iran. When you’re constantly focused on what crime Israel has committed, I suppose it’s easy to just condemn yet another unjustified attack by the genocidal oppressor. I can guarantee that since if those people holding IRGC posters will have been plastering posts about Woman, Life, Freedom all over their SM. How many former CND supporters could argue that Iran should be allowed to have nukes?

Anyway, I digress. Glad this thread has been able to show that yes, we do have a problem in this country and well done to all the open-minded, free thinkers out there who are willing to question the accepted narrative and can recognise cognitive dissonance when ur appears!

That’s not the point. In any value-based society, all forms of racism and discrimination are unacceptable. Arguing that antisemitism can’t be defined - because “Jews like to argue,” effectively removes any protection for Jewish people.

Antisemitism has endured for centuries in highly specific, recognisable forms. That’s exactly why multiple definitions—developed by experts and scholars—have been established. These definitions aren’t vague. And on this forum alone, they’re violated multiple times an hour.

Every minority group has internal differences of opinion. But when a broad consensus emerges among people from that group about what’s offensive or discriminatory, society usually listens and shows respect.

There are people of colour in Tommy Robinson’s videos. That doesn’t erase the racism others experience. There are women who defend Andrew Tate. That doesn’t cancel out the misogyny others recognise.

Likewise, the presence of some Jewish individuals who excuse or downplay antisemitism doesn’t invalidate the experience of the many who live it ddaily. Theres a woman here who's described her kids being spat on. 80% of Jews in Britain don't feel safe being visibly Jewish.

Jews have the right to name the hatred that has pursued, marginalised, and murdered them for millennia. It should be called out—not dismissed with a shrug, even by other Jewish people who think it's acceptable.

The details of the Dinah report are almost unbelievable. It's so horrific. Men completely dead behind the eyes.

Where are the answers to my questions wherein I asked if the testimonies were believed by certain posters?

We had a recent EDI presentation at work and Jews were not mentioned as a group that sufferers racism (though others were). It is amazing how Jews are suddenly not prone to racism when every secondary school child in the country learns about the holocaust. It was if the EDI course leader was just simply to afraid to go there with a diverse audience in front of her.

Also I think we can't veer away from Muslim anti semitism for fear of offending another minority. It exists unfortunately; though every Muslim of course isnt anti-Semitic it does not help to avoid this phenomena completely.

Lots of questions going ignored here.

I am reminded of Greta Thunberg refusing to watch the Nova footage and calling it Israeli propaganda.

Absolutely closing her mind to anything that might shake her view of goodies and baddies and 'resistance'.

I shall venture a guess that no, the testimonies are not believed by some posters. They’ll say it’s circumstantial or hearsay or that people have withdrawn their statements so it’s unreliable.

If they accept the evidence they have to accept what their oppressed side did and that they are accepting of literally anything as justified resistance.

I’ll hazard a guess it’s because Jews are thought of as white and we’re still working through our colonial guilt while not accepting that it’s not just white peoples who can be racist.

You’d also be a brave speaker to say “…including Jewish people…” at the moment! It works be a MN thread writ large! It would descend into a massive argument within about 5 seconds!

Ms Thunberg refusing to watch the footage was pathetic.

It says a lot about ingrained anti-semitism that people are more willing to think that footage taken by the perpetrators showing their side of events is faked or somehow out of context, rather than see the glee, pride and barbarity of what they did.

I’m not particularly comfortable with the continued focus on Muslims here. Antisemitism is widespread among a variety of groups - the political hard left, as seen by the antisemitism in the Labour Party under Corbyn which is probably a feature of the hard left’s obsession with Israel as part of an anti-imperialist, anti-west stance, and of course it’s a big feature of the extreme right, the white supremacists and neo-Nazis. They have more in common than you might expect when you look at the conspiracy theories on the far right of Jews secretly controlling the media, the banks, world governments while secretly trying to establish a New World Order, and on left where they have the same conspiracy theories except about Zionists and the Israel Lobby (Zionists much more common now, Israel lobby was v popular back in Corbyn’s time).

Tommy Robinson and co at the moment despite being on the right seem to be settling as pro-Israel but I think that is because they have decided that they hate Muslims more than they hate Jews.

Agreed. Tommy Robinson is no friend to the Jewish people. He's an opportunist.

Tommy Robinson is certainly no friend, he's merely the other cheek of the same arse.

😂

I agree antisemitism comes from all sides, but I don't think all sides are observed. Partly because the most famous example of antisemitism is the Holocaust and everyone knows the perpetrators were far right facists but also because the left tends to rewrite or ignore its own record.

Left-wing antisemitism has led to the deaths, imprisonment, exile, and cultural erasure of tens of thousands of Jews.

People assume racism = far-right, and since antisemitism is racism, they mentally file it there too but that's not the case. Far-left antisemitism often shows up as obsessive hatred of Israel, erasing the Jewish right to self-determination and blaming Jews collectively for the actions of a state.

Conspiratorial antisemitism (e.g. "Jewish lobby") cuts across political lines.

What we're seeing now isn't new.

I think people are also used to thinking fascism = white/European, "colonial"

It might be helpful if we began teaching in school that colonialism was not exclusively committed by white Europeans.

Two very good books on left antisemitism by leaders in the field
David Hirsh, Contemporary Left Antisemitism
Alan Johnson, Mapping the New Left Antisemitism

They both talk about how left antisemitism is not recognised because being anti racist is often a defining part of left identity. Its very much my experience

Especially in this context, Arab and Ottoman Empires!

..and that when any country's religious ideology goes into "radical expansion" mode, it's like a rogue elephant.

But one very significant difference about Judaism is that its never been very interested in conversion. Unlike Christianity and Islam.

I’m not sure what your point is? October 7 was brought up as evidence of the savagery that antisemitic hatred can lead to - it wasn’t legitimate “resistance” it was a brutal attack on innocent families and young people- motivated by hatred of Jewish people and the state of Israel.
The poster Hearing wanted verification of the sexual violence that occurred ( as if the video evidence that Hamas live streamed wasn’t enough)
Whatever evidence was provided for this poster would never have been enough- he/she would have queried it.
The poster was not asking questions in good faith.

Read both atound the Corbyn era as I wanted to hear the arguments, both brilliant. I read a few other brilliant books and essays on it too.

I was reading the other day that David Hirsh has resigned his union after decades because of antisemitism. I don't recall the specifics but something on the lines of the president of the student union calling him a zionist far right facist or something (he is left wing).

Agreed.
No race or creed can just view themselves as victims- all have the potential to be the villains unless they curb the extremist elements in their midst

I know someone who's been trying to convert go Judaism for years but is struggling due to distance from a synagogue. It's very hard even if you want to.

Is it difficult to convert to Judaism because Judaism is a race as well as a religion? And you obviously can’t change your race.