Hamas nearly gone?

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gk79xlzwjo

This is important. Hamas are nearly defeated and so is it in Israel's interests to finish the job? It will be interesting to see if Hamas actually have authority when it comes to negotiations or whether they are a busted flush outrageously demanding concessions when they are defeated.

It seems Palestinian society is descending into a barbaric chaos and I don't how these armed gangs will be represented in future Gazan governance unless it is broken up into clan fiefdoms?

Better put @Twiglets. Thankyou. Israel didn’t set a trap in that they planned anything as I have already explained ( no evidence at all ). Hamas however did provide the Israeli Government with the excuse it needed to take Gaza. If my ‘words’ are confusing hope that clears it up.

Hamas created the excuse Netanyahu needed to invade and take Gaza for Israel. Is that better for you You haven’t btw answered my question at all. I asked what do you think Netanyahu meant by presenting those maps to the UNGA in2023. Do you think he was joking. Why would he outline plans for ‘The New Middle East ‘ in such a way by erasing Gaza. What do you think he meant by that if not exactly what he and everyone at the meeting understood it to mean. ie Erasing Gaza and replacing it with Israel. If you don’t know or aren’t interested that’s fine. To many it’s fundamental to this whole conflict

What a load of nonsense. Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005, and gave the people of Gaza full civilian autonomy. And even before that, there were only a very small number of settlers living in Gaza.

Gaza doesn't have any natural resources worth having, nor does it carry any historical significance to Israel and the Jewish people. Which is why nobody really ever had any wish to annex it. In fact Israel offered it back to the Egyptians, but they too refused to take it.

The initial plan in 2005 was to give Gaza autonomy, and let them build - at the very least - a semi-autonomous state. They could have made it something beautiful, and honestly, if they would have focused on peacefully building their own state, they would have almost certainly been a fully sovereign Palestinian state by now. Though admittedly, probably demilitarised.

Instead, they didn't miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. And they were more intent on destroying Israel than building their own. In fact they wouldn't even want their own state if it would mean Israel also exists side by side. Which is why the two-state solution never had any popular support amongst the Palestinians.

No need to thank me.

I'm equally confused how there was no trap yet Hamas managed to walk into a trap, according to you.

Doesn't make much sense tbh to those of us that try to be logical.

On October 7th, Hamas carried out the single deadliest attack on Jews since the Holocaust. Over 1,200 people were butchered in their homes. Babies and kids were killed, the disabled were killed, women were raped and burned alive, and hundreds taken hostage. This was a barbaric act of terror, openly filmed and celebrated.

Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. Every settlement dismantled. Every soldier gone. The hope was that Palestinians would build something positive. Instead, Hamas seized power, executed its rivals, and started launching thousands of rockets into Israeli towns. Israel didn't "seize Gaza" after that. It waited 18 years, showing more restraint than almost any country would.

Netanyahu was an open critic of that withdrawal. He believed Israel should only make concessions in return for peace. The disengagement gave up land, settlements, and military presence with no guarantee of Palestinian recognition, demilitarisation, or ceasefire. He believed it sent the wrong message: that terror pays. At the time, attacks on Israelis had escalated during the Second Intifada, and withdrawing from Gaza appeared - at least symbolically - to reward violence. He resigned from the cabinet in protest just weeks before the withdrawal, making his stance very clear.

I remember at the time he warned that withdrawing unilaterally from Gaza without a peace agreement would turn the territory into a terrorist stronghold. He predicted that:

• Hamas would seize power.
• Rockets would be fired into Israeli towns.
• Gaza would become a base for Iranian-backed jihad.

All of which did happen.

I always hated him, but he was completely right on this.

Saying Hamas gave Israel an excuse is like saying 9/11 gave the US an excuse to go into Afghanistan. It’s a twisted kind of victim-blaming. He might be a complete prick. He and some of his cabinet might be absolute wankers who wanted to take over Gaza.

But none of them tricked Hamas into it, nobody coerced them, nobody forced them - it was just what they did, which was exactly what was predicted.

Always the same bullshit - ‘Israel made them do it’, as if apparently well educated Palestinians have no agency at all and nothing is their fault nor are they accountable for it.

@DrPrunesqualer thinks that Hamas cares about Gazan civilians which tells you all you need to know about that poster really,

Hamas wants Gaza back and the population to be safe. Unlike Netanyahu who pulled out of the last ceasefire which would have brought the hostages home. Why didn’t he stick to it, because it wasn’t the Pham. Don’t demean my comments it doesn’t put posters in a good light. We all see Netanyahu’s goal even if some prefer to make light of it.

If posters can’t own the truth behind Netanyahus long known goal then they’ve had their head in the sand and believed the Israeli Govn lies.

Hamas wants Gazans to be safe?
Are you serious?

Hamas want Gazans to be safe!? So they built miles and miles of tunnels and not a single shelter for civilians? They take aid and sell it back to Gazans. They are SHOOTING Gazans who organised anti hamas protests. Are you so ignorant of what is happening in Gaza?

Agreed.

Anyone who thinks that Hamas cares about Gazan civilians is too deluded to bother debating with.

Then why the fuck don't they release the hostages and surrender?

Hamas wants Gaza back and the population to be safe.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!
They might want to come out of their tunnels and face the mess they made then eh? Not quite as brave when they are fighting IDF rather than unarmed grandmas in their beds!

Yep.

There's no point is there. Jesus.

Hamas wants Gaza back and the population to be safe.

Which makes their actions even more incomprehensible then because they already had Gaza and they're responsible for the population becoming extremely unsafe. Good grief.

Surrender to what. They’ve been invaded. The last ceasefire agreement was going ahead. All hostages to be released and the IDF to withdraw. The agreement got to stage 1 then Netanyahu pulled out. He refused to move to the next stage as that was the beginning of IDF withdrawal. He chose to carry on the bombing. Hamas didn’t pull out. They were ready to release more hostages in stage 2 and so on. All well documented. What’s the confusion here. Is this just the IG and followers wanting it all about one side. Two sides are involved in negotiations whether we like any of them or not.

"Hamas wants Gaza back and the population to be safe. "

This one of the major problems of this conflict, a bunch of useful idiots who parrot hamas propaganda and believe any old shite they read on social media, such as earlier when a poster claimed that Israel had wiped out almost the entire civilian population. Several days ago there were people spreading hamas' ridiculous claims on various social media platforms that Israel were setting up literal sugar traps to trap hungry gazans in holes ffs and putting oxycodone pills into flour. They literally have zero critical thinking skills. The fact that hamas are doing everything they can to sabotage the new aid process says everything about them and their concern for their people. They are majorly pissed off that they can no longer have control over the food and other aid.

But yeah sure, hamas are just lovely people who care about their people lol 🙄. That's why they use them as human shields, steal aid and sell it back to them at extortionate prices, kill and torture people who protest them, kill aid workers trying to get aid to the population without them being involved and much more. Thats why their leaders live in luxury in qatar, away from any warzone. Hamas don't want the population safe. They want them hungry, killed and injured all to further their own aims.

So the tactic has been to discredit the poster who dares to post Netanyahus long held intentions as a way to avoid ever having to explain what those are. The UNGA IG map says it all. A few mumsnetters not ‘getting it’ is not an issue in the grand scale of things. I just wish people would take on board reality if Just to reflect on how very sad this plan is. I hope it’s opened just a few eyes on here.

You've rumbled us Dr Prune!

There are a group of MNs who have all got together (in my living room actually) and hatched a plan to discredit you.

Is this another case of walking into a trap that wasn't a trap or something else?

They started a losing war, if they cared about their people they would surrender. A ceasefire is just a chance for the enemy to rearm. You don't get to demand a ceasefire when you've started a war which you're losing.

It didn’t start on October 7th. If you believe that then I’m done.

Prunes are sweat and ripe and ready this time of year.

Can anyone guess the exact moment when history began???

I think I know this one!!!

Yeah, that’s why they planned and executed Oct 7th, they thought that would ensure safety for Gaza.

They had absolutely no idea that Israel would retaliate or try to get their hundreds of hostages back after seeing the atrocities they carried out.

No other country would have, would they? Just Israel being totally over dramatic about a genocide of civilians at a music festival, gang raping, torture and mutilation, and a few kibbutzim being wiped out.

What was the fuss?

That should have totally assured the safety of Gazans.

But they didn't plan and execute October 7th. It was a trap. Those poor, misunderstood fluffy wuffy terrorists.