To wish those in Israel safety in these coming times

[mids2019]

Israel is a country at war and I know many will have links or family in that country so I think it appropriate to wish them safety in the coming days.

Which government websites?

Hamas (or the Islamic Resistance Movement) ...

It is considered a proscribed terrorist group I was merely highlighting how they are described and how they see themselves. The thread has move on so I will leave it there.

https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF12549

I hear what you are saying about avoiding cycles of revenge, but the issue is that these are not just past crimes. Many of the violations, from unlawful killings to collective punishment, settlement expansion, and the blockade of Gaza, are still happening right now. This is not about dredging up old grievances. It is about stopping ongoing harm and holding current actors accountable.

Letting that go in the name of moving forward risks sending a message that some states can violate international law without consequence. That undermines not only justice for Palestinians but also the rule of law in general.

There can be space for reconciliation and even amnesty in some situations, but accountability is essential when crimes are still taking place. Otherwise, it is not about asking people to move on from the past. It is asking them to accept continued injustice. And that is not a foundation for peace. It is a recipe for resentment and instability.

US government. So when you said most government websites you meant most US government websites. Ok

Interesting page you linked, will have a peruse.

Many of the violations, from unlawful killings to collective punishment, settlement expansion, and the blockade of Gaza, are still happening right now.

There can be space for reconciliation and even amnesty in some situations, but accountability is essential when crimes are still taking place. Wrote @purpletablet

But under a peace process all that, one would hope, stop. I'm suggesting drawing a line so that violations past that point are indeed held accountable, but the crimes committed by both parties before the peace process are not pursued.

Maybe idealistic, but it's all about concentrating on the future. You see it on here. There has been too much historical "Who has done what to whom", and "Cataloguing of atrocities" and relatively few posts about plausible ways forward.

I want no civilian deaths no matter who they are. Speaking as a Palestinian myself, from the WB, i just want all this to be over. Enough. Enough pain. There is so much pain, so much trauma on all sides, it is unbearable.

I do need to echo what you said that one cannot hold an entire population responsible and collectively punish them and hope that for some posters on here they can extend that grace to palestinians, who have been tarred with one big brush.

Ok be pedantic it is how they are described on wiki as well, I obviously haven't gone through all government websites but in my experience with stuff like this, most use the same descriptions. My post was in response to posters suggesting that their only reason for being in existence was because they want to kill all Jews I was merely pointing out that that is not the only reason given. As I said thread has moved on

Over the last almost 2 years, Israel has repeatedly tried to persuade the world that hospitals containing civilians are valid military targets.

I guess Iran were listening.

That doesn't mean I don't feel incredibly sorry for the civilians caught up in this, no hospital deserves to be bombed. But it would be incredibly hypocritical if Israel to claim it's unacceptable.

Only there's one major difference. Theres absolutely no chance whatsoever that that hospital was an IDF base, had tunnels with IDF hiding out, or had any IDF commanders anywhere near. It was a purely civilian target. So a war crime.

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How many hospitals did Israel attack on Lebanon?

You think the world can't see the hypocrisy of the Israeli government?

How do you know there weren't IDF in there? How do you know the IDF didn't do it themselves and blame Iran? All the same pathetic arguments here as have been made to justify bombing hospitals over the last two years. Pathetic.

They cry foul at the same actions they carry out themselves over and over and over again.

Has anyone said that the only reason for their existence was to kill all Jews?

According to the Lebanese Ministry of Health, between October 2023 and November 2024 the Israeli military attacked 67 hospitals, 56 primary health care centres, and 238 emergency medical teams, killing at least 222 medical and emergency relief workers.

We see what we see on these threads which is very little sympathy ever being expressed for Israeli citizens caught up in the violence of war.

Hence we don’t expect to see an outcry against Iran for targeting Israel citizens in a hospital but time will tell if it even gets mentioned on many threads.

Oh you’re back… well they are valid targets if they have military command centres built underneath them with top military commanders hiding there.

If they are just hospitals treating sick people then no they are not valid military targets.

No they aren't.
That's just a lie you tell yourself so that killing Palestinians is ok in your mind.

1. Do you think Israel would bomb one of their own hosptials if Hamas were hiding underneath btw?
2. do you have evidence of hamas command centres underneath every single hospital bombed by Israel over the last two years? Dozens if not hundreds of attacks?

I'm wondering why this thread is being derailed, when it's rinse and repeat posts being brought from the numerous other threads.

According to the Iranian government there were members of the military in the hospital that they hit.

Really? It’s like the Iranian regime is playing a sick joke on Israel.

It’s awful because ultimately ordinary people pay the price.

The presence of a military target near or beneath a hospital does not automatically make the hospital a valid target under international law. Even if there is some military activity, the laws of armed conflict require strict proportionality and precautions to avoid harm to civilians. Hospitals still retain special protection, and attacks on them must meet an extremely high threshold of justification.

In many of the cases where Israel has bombed hospitals, little to no verifiable evidence was provided to support the claims that they were being used as military command centres. And even if there were legitimate targets nearby, intentionally destroying a hospital treating civilians, or making it inoperable, would still likely violate international law if the civilian harm is excessive in relation to the military advantage.

If we are now agreeing that hospitals are not valid targets unless the military presence is clear, confirmed, and proportionate, then the standard needs to apply to everyone, not only to Iran or others. The rules of war are not optional. They are meant to protect civilians, no matter which side they are on.

Agree but all parties have to be abiding by international law and one might question whether that is always the case in the ME.

According to the Iranian government there were members of the military in the hospital that they hit.

According to the Iranian government! Not really a ringing endorsement is it? I think what is valid though is that pretty much next door to the hospital is a military intelligence facility and it could be that the missile was slightly adrift and caught the hospital instead. Perhaps. Difficult to know for sure.

Sorry, are you actually suggesting the IDF have a base in a hospital? Or that Israel bombed its own hospital and blamed it on Iran? Is that what you believe? For what reason do you believe this? Because otherwise its just yet more word salad...

Start a war, you get war crimes. Iran, Israel, Palestine, the UK, the US. All commited war crimes.

You bomb a hospital that you know has no military value at all, its a war crime, no matter who pulled the trigger.