To wish those in Israel safety in these coming times

[mids2019]

Israel is a country at war and I know many will have links or family in that country so I think it appropriate to wish them safety in the coming days.

Do you have a problem with that ?

Do I sniff antisemitism?

@purpletablet

Are you pretending I didn't address your first points?

The displacements in 1947 only started after the Arabs started a civil war against the Jews, following the UN vote. Up to then not one person had been displaced.

But I'll go a step further, even population transfers where it made sense wouldn't have been the end of the world. That's what happened for example when Pakistan was founded round about the same time.

As to the refugees remaining stateless, well that's just because the entire Arab world failed them. Why are the great grandchildren of original refugees not yet citizens of Syria, Lebanon etc?

Every other refugee in the world managed to resettle. What's special about the Palestinians that they remain stateless for eternity?

I thought antisemitism was imagined on this forum. No, I don't have a problem with the Jewish community, I'm just surprised at your earlier post.

ETA: in your question as to whether you sniffed antisemitism @mouthpipette

"I thought antisemitism was imagined on this forum." @Dangermoo

At last ! We agree on something.

Interesting take from a Jewish person. Oh well.

Here’s a strange though typical piece of divisive rhetoric from You Tuber and professional shit-stirrer Owen Jones.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jun/18/iraq-afghanistan-libya-warmongers-always-wrong-iran-attacks-nothing-change-minds

Have to say this is true, many current day Indians and Pakistanis lost their homes (people literally just took what they could carry) during partition, a lot were lucky just to survive it. You don’t see hindus and sikhs demanding they be given their homes back in Lahore. You don’t see Pakistanis carrying a key around for 70 years so they can go back to their home in Jalandhar.

Displacement is an unfortunate but not rare experience for many people across the globe. They start again and crack on building lives. Part of the problem is how restrictive citizenship laws in the middle east are. It is extremely difficult to obtain citizenship and most arab countries don’t automatically pass citizenship on through the mother, the father has to be a citizen. So yeah it as an extremely difficult position to be in. Even if they want to move forward many are scuppered by the country they live in, it is quite shit.

Personally given the support for Palestinians across the middle east I’m always surprised that arab countries don’t offer a fast track to citizenship for Palestinians who want it (ofcourse some wouldn’t want it but if you truly believe that they are in need then like in the west refugees should be offered the option).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestinian_nationality

I do increasingly think that many middle eastern countries quite like having an impoverished cohort of Palestinians (most of the Palestinians I have met are well educated and very middle class, but I’ve lived in places where you only get in with a work visa) around so they can point at Israel and call them bastards while carefully not mentioning how they treat refugees.

it’s a bit like this rafah crossing convoy thing, Egypt will talk about a genocide but then keep the doors firmly shut. If you genuinely believe that a people are being genocided you let them in (Germanys welcome of Syrian’s comes to mind). I mean seriously if the UK believed French people were being genocided I genuinely think British people would be helping them exit. Not blocking them. Which means the Egyptians government don’t actually believe a genocide is occurring.

There is no doubt that mass displacement has tragically affected many peoples, including during the India–Pakistan partition. But comparing that to the Palestinian Nakba oversimplifies and distorts what makes the Palestinian case unique and ongoing.

First, most displaced communities from other conflicts were eventually absorbed into surrounding societies. Palestinians, by contrast, have been deliberately denied that opportunity. That is not only due to restrictive citizenship laws in the region, but more importantly because of Israel’s refusal to allow their return or compensate them, in clear violation of international law. That is a critical difference.

More importantly, the Palestinian displacement is not a one-time historical event. It continues through settlement expansion, forced evictions in East Jerusalem, demolitions in the West Bank, and the blockade of Gaza. The right of return is not about nostalgia or symbolism. It is about millions of people still living in statelessness and limbo, often just a few miles from the homes their families were forced out of. The keys they carry are not simply emotional gestures. They are reminders of a legal claim that remains unresolved.

You are right to point out the failures of Arab states in supporting Palestinians, and that criticism is entirely valid. But shifting the entire burden onto host countries conveniently lets Israel, the party that created the refugee crisis, off the hook. The fact that Palestinians face injustice elsewhere does not erase the root injustice that created their statelessness in the first place.

As for Egypt, yes, its handling of the Rafah crossing has been appalling. But again, focusing on Egypt’s failure to take in refugees does not change the fact that Israel has dropped tens of thousands of bombs on one of the most densely populated areas on earth. Israel is the actor inflicting the violence, so it bears primary responsibility.

If we are going to talk about accountability, we should be consistent. Israel should not be exempt from international norms simply because others also behave badly.

So, moving forwards, what is your proposal?

Shocking scenes of a hospital but in Israel. Is Iran lost and simply looking for rash vengence?

Disgraceful, targeting a hospital. Now where have I heard that before? I take it there will be outrage.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/jun/19/israel-iran-conflict-live-hospital-in-southern-israel-hit-in-iran-missile-strike-say-israeli-officials

We're there many children in this building. Sorry but this can't be excused by the yeah...but...but...Gaza crowd.

I hope you felt suitably shocked when the Palestinian hospitals were bombed, but I doubt it.

I knew it!

A fair question. What I outlined is not just my personal view. These principles are broadly supported by international legal experts, human rights organisations, and peace advocates who have studied the conflict for decades.

Here are some of the key elements consistently proposed as part of a just and lasting solution:

1. An end to the occupation — This includes dismantling illegal settlements, lifting the blockade on Gaza, and allowing Palestinians meaningful sovereignty over their own land, in accordance with international law.
2. Equality under the law — Whether through a two-state solution or a shared democratic framework, Palestinians must have the same civil and political rights as Israelis. No long-term peace is possible where one group lives under military rule or second-class status.
3. Right of return or fair compensation — Recognised in UN Resolution 194, this would allow Palestinian refugees to return to their homes or receive just compensation and resettlement options. It remains one of the longest-standing unresolved refugee issues in the world.
4. Justice and accountability — There must be credible investigations into violations committed by all sides, and a genuine commitment to upholding human rights and international humanitarian law.
5. International guarantees and monitoring — Any agreement must be backed by strong international mechanisms to ensure compliance and support, not just vague declarations.

These are not radical ideas. They are grounded in decades of diplomacy, international law, and human rights standards. The real barrier is not a lack of viable proposals, but a lack of political will to apply them equally to both peoples. Moving forward means starting from a place of equal rights, not permanent inequality.

Thank you for your considered response. I will leave it to somebody who is far more qualified than me to address your points, if they so wish.Good to start the day with going forwards, rather than backwards 😊

You don't think that's a fair question?

Hospitals are the lowest of the low targets, so whoever bombs them is wrong? Surely.

Israel’s President Isaac Herzog said the Iranian missile strikes that damaged the hospital targeted civilians.

Won't hold my breath for the outcry on here.

No chance.

Agree almost entirely with this, though I have doubts about point 4.
Any meaningful peace process must be looking forward and by trying to pursue historical, criminal actions from either side, simply keeps on dragging up the past. Whilst it might go under the flag of "justice" it is often just revenge and retribution thinly disguised .

I would prefer an amnesty for those on both sides. Yes even for Netanyahu and his cronies.
Start fresh, work towards a situation with a meaningful 2-state solution, so that points 1,2,3 and 5 come to fruition.

Of course it's wrong. My question is to @Mids2019.

When has the yeah but Gaza crowd EVER excused bombing hospitals? I think you are getting a bit mixed up there.

It is shocking, hospitals are never a legitimate target I hope those impacted are safe

Won't hold my breath for the outcry on here.

Why are you under the impression that posters justify the targeting of civilans?Like @mids2019 I think you have got things mixed up there.

One thing I have not seen on these Boards from posters that post in support of Palestinians is justification or lack of concern for Israeli civilians. The majority view is that it is wrong to target civilians. I find it interesting that two posters here have suggested the opposite, maybe they are too busy looking in the mirror

are you not getting a bit mixed up? It is completely wrong to target hospitals and this was a direct strike, so there is little doubt they are targeting civilians. It’s a horrific act and “the Gaza crowd” have been saying it for months.