Freedom Flotilla

[Badh]

Thought this might be worth its own thread. The freedom flotilla The Madleen was getting close to Gaza but seems to have made a diversion, as it was the closest boat to answer a distress call. They seem to also have four Sudanese asylum seekers on board who were trying to escape the Libyan coast patrol.

The UK and France are asking Israel for its safe passage.

The tracker is here but is in and out of action.
https://freedomflotilla.org/ffc-tracker/

More details here, although the latest detour is not covered in the article.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-navy-gears-up-to-block-high-profile-protest-ship-headed-for-gaza/amp/

@sualipa

"ANC was a progressive, Marxist-aligned national liberation movement that largely avoided tactics such as suicide bombings or deliberately targeting civilians."

This is just simply not true.

The ANC's armed wing MK killed over 19000 people- the majority of which were innocent black civilians.

Don't you remember the necklace killings??

I was being ironic I even attended a rally with Robert Mugabe in a cinema in Manchester at the time of the Lancaster House talks as I was very friendly at university with many ZANU-PF activists packed to the rafters on that joyous occasion. It sadly wasn't to last - we weren't mates with ZAPU-PF though Matabale splitters.

That's hyperbole Sharon, I haven't read anywhere of Hamas saying they want to wipe Jews off the face of the earth. Where did you read this?

Hamas are bad enough without adding false statements that will only discredit other points you make.

We're going way off topic now and I’ll take some responsibility for that but that claim is simply not true. The number of civilian deaths attributed to MK is in the low hundreds at most, and crucially, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission investigated and documented these cases as part of a national effort toward accountability, peace, and reconciliation and lest we forget Israel was an ally of apartheid South Africa.

Hope this helps:

&bull;	Hamas official, Hamad Al-Regeb in an April 2023 <a class="break-all" href="https://www.memri.org/tv/rafah-gaza-friday-sermon-hamas-official-regeb-allah-necks-jews-annihilate-them" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">sermon</a>n_: He <strong>prayed for &ldquo;annihilation&rdquo; and &ldquo;paralysis&rdquo; of the Jews</strong> whom he described as filthy animals: &ldquo;[Allah] transformed them into filthy, ugly animals like apes and pigs because of the injustice and evil they had brought about.&rdquo; Al-Regeb also prayed for the ability to &ldquo;get to the necks of the Jews.&rdquo; 

https://www.adl.org/resources/article/hamas-its-own-words

Also Hamas Charter:

https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-39744551.amp

Wow. Just one example from Hamas's Charter. I suggest you read it in full. Then watch footage of 7 october and listen to their language.

The Day of Judgement will not come about,” it proclaims, “until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him

This was from the link you sent

It also says Hamas's struggle is not with Jews but with "occupying Zionist aggressors". The 1988 charter was condemned for its anti-Jewish language

I have, they kidnapped and killed Muslims too who were Israeli. If that's wrong I'm happy to be corrected.

I think I found it.

I agree wgat I said is not the whole picture.
We cannot really get in the whole issue on a few words in a post. I know it is a complex issue.

I do see Netanyahu as an obstacle to peace. He has been in the past. He is today. And he is making sure he will be in the future.
None of the armed groups care about their own people or how many they kill on the other side. Their own ideologies and targets involve the suppression of the other side, for both land and religion motivation. It is almost a tradition to the lot, by now. Neither Netanyahu and his parties, or Hamas, or Hezbollah or the Houthis or any of the smaller groups do care how many of their own people suffer or gets killed. And, of course, they do not care about the other side.
I do see a huge risk that Netanyahu is about to repeat history, by arming these gangs in Gaza. Then, if 20 years later they have enough arms and resources and numbers to attack Israel, we should not be surprised.
To end this, we need to remove the whole lot of armed parties here and be done with these strategies.

I will have a look to the videos when I get home.
But, I already disliked Netanyahu severely by the time he first made it to power, so I doubt any of it will change my mind.
Plus, the present mess and suffering could have been stopped, so many times!

Well it seems the Israeli foreign ministry intervened and stopped the activists from being forced to watch footage which Katz wanted to record them whilst watching it. There was concerns it would lead to diplomatic difficulties.

Forcing them would be wrong, but in their shoes I would have watched it. And I think it is wrong of them not to have done so. On the other side, I do get that is a scary and horrible thing to watch....

If legally possible and advisable, I would refuse to be deported from a country I did not actually enter voluntarily. But it would be tempting to exit quickly indeed!

It IS very dismissive to only mention the people horribly killed on oct 7 and ignore the many many thousands horribly killed since oct 7th.

I haven't seen anyone actually sneering at Gazans the way you did towards 7 October in your post.

"I haven't seen any starving Gazans"
"The only hungry looking ones are the hostages"
Sounds pretty sneering to me.
(This has been said multiple times across multiple threads)

I haven't seen that on tvis thread. No-one should be sneering and dismissive of anyone's suffering.

Did you see how people watched and mocked Gretas face when she eating a sandwich and sat in a plane seat? In her shoes would you really sit and be filmed so everyone can pull apart your every facial expression whilst watching it? Not in a million years would I sign up to that.

What do you think zionists are?

We know Hamas kills muslims. Yes there are many Israeli Muslims. No gazan Jews though.

Yes, the mocking and criticisms are petty indeed.
But I think, though difficult, I would care more about the real meaning of it all, more than whoever wants to mock me online. Not watching the video results in disgraceful comments about them refusing to acknowledge Oct 7th. Watching it, would not. Though there will always be someone twisting something, somehow.
That would be my personal cjouce.
I think statements like "I acknowledge your suffering", "now can we acknowledge that the aid blockade is causing suffering to civilians too?"
It is, in my opinion, preferable. But I am glad she is out and I fully respect their choices at the time they were in that situation.

Why could this flotilla not reach Gaza? Should they next try an air drop?

Zionists come from multiple backgrounds, surely you know this? There's a very large group of evangelical Christian zionists in America. It's not only Jews who are zionists.

Oh give me strength. Yes I know that. I am a non-Jewish zionist. We all know exactly what Hamas are about and I wont engage further with someone pretending that Hamas is not a fundamentally murderous genocidal antisemitic movement. This conversation is exactly what we mean when we talk about terrorist apologism, the hair splitting and pedantry. As I say, look at tge footage from 7 October, listen to hamas supporters and leaders, listen to their funders, the organ-grinders in Iran. Do not minimise what this movement is about.

What do you think of this @Whatsinanamehey

Did you see how people watched and mocked Gretas face when she eating a sandwich and sat in a plane seat? In her shoes would you really sit and be filmed so everyone can pull apart your every facial expression whilst watching it? Not in a million years would I sign up to that.

These are closed screenings. Why would anyone have been filming her? She should have watched the footage.