Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Conflict in the Middle East

Heartbreaking news report from Gaza - Dr receives bodies of her children

786 replies

Applenation · 24/05/2025 23:27

Many of you will already have read about this. Paediatric specialist Dr Alaa al-Najjar was on duty when the bodies of nine of her 10 children were received by her in the hospital, after a strike in Khan Younis hit her home.

This report just stopped me in my tracks. I don't know what to say beyond this. I cannot stop thinking about this poor woman tonight.

er children killed by a strike in Khan Younis. Guardian link

OP posts:
Thread gallery
38
AIBUHere · 05/06/2025 22:30

Martymcfly24 · 05/06/2025 22:21

Sorry I just had to read my post quoted there and cannot understand for the life of me what that post is in response to..

I never mentioned Hamas. As usual the "But Hamas" default comes out once any factual criticism has been made of Israel.

Exactly, you never mentioned Hamas!

YourOnMute · 05/06/2025 22:40

RandomWordsThrownTogether · 05/06/2025 20:09

In fairness both Hamas and the IDF are rapists who dismember people. The thing is you are acting like what people have to fear is Hamas - Hamas would not see a freedom flotilla as the enemy, Israel on the other hand have form for bombing them and quite recently set one on fire in international waters. I would be terrified for my child that Israel would blow them up or shoot them. Look at the civilian body count in Gaza. I would also be dead proud of her.

The thing I find mad is that so many pro Israel posters act like Israel have a right to control what goes in and out of Gaza. Boats carrying aid should be allowed land in Gaza, it does not belong to Israel. Similarly Israel should not be controlling its borders - it is not their country, though they have form for moving the boarders and stealing more and more land. The people firing bombs, shooting from quadcopters, from apache helicopters, the people sending snipers to shoot children in the head and the thorax are the IDF. They are the people I would be worried about. During this war several aid workers have been killed, tons of medics all at the hands of the IDF. I would fear the IDF for sure.

Haven't read the whole thread, but agree with the control - under international law I didn't think Israel was allowed to control Gaza's borders? It is not Israel.

Badh · 05/06/2025 22:41

AIBUHere · 05/06/2025 21:18

The Choctaw Nation sent 170 dollars to the Irish famine relief in 1847 a huge amount for a poor nation. Thank God they looked beyond their own needs to a country they will never see.

That is relevant how to young people PUTTING THEIR LIVES AT RISK trying to enter a horror scape of a war zone to make a point?

My DC have been brought up to help other people and have had quite a bit of involvement in charity work as have my DH and I.

Sacrificing their lives is an entirely different matter though as it would be for most people!

I can’t actually believe this is serious tbh.

You seem pretty convinced Israel will bomb the ship!

They won’t allow them to land. But I don’t think they’ll kill her. She’s protection for the ship basically. Too high profile.

Martymcfly24 · 05/06/2025 22:47

AIBUHere · 05/06/2025 22:30

Exactly, you never mentioned Hamas!

???
Why would I?
I posted about aid workers being killed... 412 by the IDF up to April in relation to the discussion about the aid and the flotilla being attacked.

No need to shoehorn Hamas into that post.

Martymcfly24 · 05/06/2025 22:51

YourOnMute · 05/06/2025 22:40

Haven't read the whole thread, but agree with the control - under international law I didn't think Israel was allowed to control Gaza's borders? It is not Israel.

They have been controlling Gaza borders with an air land and sea blockade plus imports and exports since they "left" Gaza 20 years ago.
This is nothing new.

YourOnMute · 06/06/2025 00:26

Unfortunately the below quotes from interviews on Israeli Channel 14 do seem to indicate that these quoted consider Palestinians as less than. These include:
What they need is a second Nabka (Oct 23).
You see civilians? Open fire! (November 23)
When we see the images from Gaza we say who cares. (Oct 23)
Gaza will become the Riveria of the Middle East. (Jan 24)
Did you see the article saying we're burning houses in Gaza? It's true by the way, wonderful, excellent. (Feb 24)
Take crop dusters, fill them with gas and spray them over Gaza. (Feb 24)
No one in Israel should take pity on these Gazans...not on the elderly, children...they should starve to death. What do I care about them? (Feb 24)
We are burning their village and it's good we're burning the village. (March 24)
We're erasing their village. (March 24)
There are journalists with cameras...in my opinion a legitimate target. (April 24)
I don't sleep well unless I see houses collapsing in Gaza (November 2023).

Also on May 29th a group of Israeli women matched through the Armenian Quarter in Jerusalem shouting "may your village burn". (Video clips on SM easily found). Previously I posted of crowds chanting through Jerusalem chanting "we will rape your women and kill your children" and attacking Palestinian civilians - and also of the brave Israelis who were protecting those attacked during this. Israelis protesting and acting as humanitarian guards are also very courageous in the recent incursions on villages in the West Bank which have been attacked recently by Israeli settlers; of course such attacks and Israeli settlements are illegal under international law.

And many people around the world owe debts to the citizens of other countries who risked their lives (and indeed lost them) due to helping others of different races, nationalities and religions. These include UN staff (126 killed in Gaza alone, quoted by UN today incidentally) and peacekeepers (shot at twice by Israel recently incidentally), aid workers, journalists, Fr. Kolbe who volunteered himself to die instead of Jewish inmates, the international brigades of the Spanish Civil War, many missionaries and medical staff working in dangerous or highly infectious environments away from home, Sr. Barry an Irish nun who smuggled out Allied soldiers from France during WW2, Indian Noor Khan a British spy killed by the Nazis and all those from non Allied countries (including Ireland, India, Algeria) who helped the Allies in the fight against facism. Because we are all human: these people fought against evil for the greater good.

AIBUHere · 06/06/2025 00:50

Martymcfly24 · 05/06/2025 22:47

???
Why would I?
I posted about aid workers being killed... 412 by the IDF up to April in relation to the discussion about the aid and the flotilla being attacked.

No need to shoehorn Hamas into that post.

No the discussion related to international civilians entering into an active war zone voluntarily with no protection, relating to actors on both sides of the conflict as per my previous post.

Your only concern would be the IDF?

So there’s no Hamas/PIJ terrorists in Gaza then.

You wouldn’t be slightly concerned about them if you went into Gaza, or your DC went, considering what they did on Oct 7th?

They must still be all there because according to Hamas figures not one has been killed in this war.

Twiglets1 · 06/06/2025 04:26

ssd · 05/06/2025 22:22

But hamas is getting boring

Who is minimising now?

Sorry that a massacre that killed 1,200 Israeli people and took others hostage is boring to you.

It says more about you & all the “but Hamas” repeaters than you realise every time you mock “but Hamas”. It tells us you only have empathy for Palestinians not the mainly Jewish men, women & children who got massacred on October 7th.

Namechangedformyanswer · 06/06/2025 07:22

quantumbutterfly · 05/06/2025 20:13

The comments under the article are interesting.

Anyone know how far away she is?

There are some interesting ones. "Take the aid to Sudan where there is a port and 150,000 dead from famine, her tiny cargo will feed a few".

"Or to Egypt which has a land border and can check thd aid and pass it on"

Apparently a commentator says there is no viable port in gaza, is that true? In which case where was the plan to Dock, if there was one. I've no idea if there is or isn't.

ssd · 06/06/2025 07:46

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Twiglets1 · 06/06/2025 07:55

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

And I've got yours and the same for everyone that mocks "but Hamas" ...you just want people to shut up mentioning a massacre of 1,200 people who were mainly Jewish.

kirinm · 06/06/2025 08:00

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

AIBUHere · 06/06/2025 08:29

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Twiglets1 · 06/06/2025 08:40

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Badh · 06/06/2025 09:48

I think Israel destroyed the port early on including most of the fishing fleet. If memory serves me right, It makes up part of the genocide case against Israel that all sources of the basics of life were destroyed.

The flotilla is making a symbolic journey really. It likely won’t get near Gaza and if it did i don’t think it could land.

ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend · 06/06/2025 09:52

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

It is extremely sinister (to say the least) that MN allows these posts, obviously supportive to proscribed terrorist groups, to go unchecked.
No one is supportive of terrorist groups and this constant claim that people are is just an attempt to shut down any discussion. Just stop.

Badh · 06/06/2025 10:44

Yes it is tiresome. Criticism of a state’s policies or actions isn’t the same as prejudice. I haven’t seen anyone on this thread be supportive of terrorism.

AIBUHere · 06/06/2025 10:48

ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend · 06/06/2025 09:52

It is extremely sinister (to say the least) that MN allows these posts, obviously supportive to proscribed terrorist groups, to go unchecked.
No one is supportive of terrorist groups and this constant claim that people are is just an attempt to shut down any discussion. Just stop.

You don’t think saying, that the only concern to anyone going into Gaza is the IDF, and the proscribed terrorist group Hamas doesn’t figure at all, is not blatant support of Hamas which is supposed to be illegal in the UK?

MN deleted my post unsurprisingly including the article by former Colonel John Spencer, a world renowned military expert so I’ll post it again in full.

Very interested in debating it with anyone who thinks they know better.

“Not This” Isn’t Strategy—It’s Surrender to Hamas’s Propaganda War
^^
“Not this” has become the lazy refrain of those too uninformed—or too afraid—to confront the actual nature of modern war. It’s the moral shrug of commentators unwilling to grapple with facts, history, or the operational realities of Gaza. “Not this” doesn’t reflect legal analysis, strategic insight, or lived combat experience. It’s a performance. A rejection of responsibility dressed up as moral clarity.
Piers Morgan is just the latest public figure to offer this empty diagnosis. He recently declared that “Israel’s current strategy is failing.” But what does that mean? Failing by what metric? Based on whose objectives?
Wars are not judged by feelings. They are judged by facts—by the political and military objectives of each side and the extent to which they are achieved. On those terms, it is Hamas—not Israel—that is failing catastrophically.
Hamas began this war with three supporting objectives:
1. Survive the war and be celebrated as the terror group that conducted the October 7 massacre and endured Israel’s response.
2. Maintain military capability to continue its stated mission: destroy Israel and kill Jews worldwide.
3. Retain governing power over Gaza, subjugating Palestinians while siphoning billions in international aid to support objective #2.
Hamas is failing on all three counts. It has lost the ability to fight as an organized military force. Its five brigades, 24 battalions, and 30,000–40,000 trained fighters—armed with over 20,000 rockets and extensive control of terrain—have been decimated. Fewer than three original commanders from Hamas’s military or political leadership in Gaza remain. From top leaders like Yahya Sinwar, Mohammad Deif, and Marwan Issa, to nearly every brigade and battalion commander, the senior command structure has been eliminated. That level of leadership, experience, and ideological fanaticism cannot be replaced. What remains is a fragmented guerrilla force made up mostly of radicalized youths, with little training, no real command structure, and declining access to weapons. The average Hamas replacement fighter is now in their teens.
Hamas has also lost political ground. Gazans are increasingly protesting and speaking out against them. Their control over food distribution—once a key lever of power—has been eroded by U.S.-Israeli humanitarian mechanisms, including the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, which bypass Hamas entirely. Their senior military and political leaders are being systematically eliminated. The group’s grip on the population is slipping.
By contrast, Israel’s goals are clear:
1. Return the hostages.
2. Destroy Hamas as a military force and governing body.
3. Ensure that no force in Gaza can ever again threaten Israeli citizens.
Israel has already returned 198 of 251 hostages. It has dismantled Hamas’s ability to wage coordinated military operations. It has reclaimed strategic terrain and pushed Hamas underground—literally. No force in Gaza currently has the capability to project meaningful attacks into Israeli territory.
Israel has also defanged and deterred Hezbollah in Lebanon, secured its northern border, contributed to the effective overthrow of Assad’s regime and destroyed the conventional military capabilities in Syria, destroyed critical Iranian-linked weapons systems, defended Israeli Druze communities, and demonstrated both military superiority and restraint across seven simultaneous fronts.
This is what strategic success looks like in modern war: steady progress under impossible conditions, constrained by international scrutiny and unprecedented operational complexity.
But progress is not victory. While Israel’s strategy in Gaza has made undeniable headway—despite operating under immense political and operational constraints—much work remains.
For two years, Israel’s ability to prepare for or respond to the Hamas threat was systematically hindered by international actors. The previous U.S. administration blocked key weapons transfers, urged Israel not to enter Rafah, and imposed constraints on the size of its combat force, the pace of operations, and even the types of weapons it could employ. It also forced operational pauses tied to humanitarian initiatives based on flawed or manipulated data—like the now-failed humanitarian pier, which proved a costly and ineffective effort. The United Nations refused to provide meaningful assistance. And many governments applied constant diplomatic pressure while offering no viable alternative to defeating Hamas. Despite these constraints, Israel has adapted, recalibrated, and steadily advanced its mission.
But military success alone is not enough. For Hamas to be fully defeated and Gaza to be stabilized, several critical objectives must still be achieved.
First, the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation—a U.S.-Israeli initiative that bypasses Hamas and delivers aid directly to civilians—must be expanded. It is one of the few working models that weakens Hamas’s control over the population while upholding humanitarian obligations.
Second, Hamas fighters must be either killed or captured. No reconciliation or rebuilding can begin while armed militants remain embedded among civilians. This requires not just raids or airstrikes, but methodical terrain clearance—followed by physical occupation and holding of that ground to prevent Hamas from reconstituting.
Third, a credible alternative to Hamas must take root. A new power must assume administrative, security, and political control of cleared areas. Without that, Hamas—or something worse—will fill the vacuum.
Only then can the longer-term work begin: deradicalization programs, reconciliation efforts, weapons buyback initiatives, and continued destruction of military infrastructure. All of this must drive toward one goal—the complete demilitarization of the Gaza Strip.
Victory in this war will not be marked solely by battlefield success, but by who governs Gaza afterward, how the people are treated, and whether another October 7 is made impossible.
And yet, critics like Piers Morgan keep hand-waving it away with the refrain: “Not this.”
It’s an empty phrase designed to appease feelings rather than address facts. It makes no effort to understand what Israel is up against—an entrenched enemy that uses human shields as doctrine, hides in hospitals and schools, and builds tunnels under refugee camps.
The most dangerous part of “Not this” isn’t just its ignorance. It’s how easily it aligns with Hamas’s propaganda strategy.
Hamas knows it cannot win militarily. So it fights through information warfare. Its primary weapon isn’t rockets—it’s casualty statistics. It floods the world with numbers, knowing that most people will never question their origin or reliability.
This is why the so-called Gaza Health Ministry—a Hamas-controlled body—releases death tolls without distinguishing between combatants and civilians, between Israeli fire and Hamas misfires, between war deaths and unrelated fatalities. They count indiscriminately and present the figure as evidence of Israeli wrongdoing.
But as analysts and independent investigations have repeatedly shown, these numbers are riddled with errors. They do not account for:
• Civilians killed by misfired Hamas or Palestinian Islamic Jihad rockets. • Civilians who died of illness, accidents, or natural causes. • Combatants, including child soldiers and women engaged in hostilities.
It is absurd to claim—especially in the chaos of war—that every name on a casualty list can be neatly categorized as civilian or combatant. It is even more absurd to assume that everyone under 18 is a “child” in the legal or moral sense. Hamas actively recruits fighters as young as 14. Women are used in combat roles, weapons transport, surveillance, and even hostage holding.
And here's a critical point: even if we were to take Hamas’s numbers at face value—which we should not—Israel would still have one of the lowest civilian-to-combatant casualty ratios in any comparable war or urban battle in modern history.
But that’s not the point.
The laws of war do not determine legality by body counts. They judge based on intent, military necessity, the value of the target, and whether all feasible precautions were taken to avoid civilian harm. The principle of proportionality requires that the expected harm to civilians must not be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated. It is a forward-looking judgment—not a backward assessment based on outcomes.
And in war, not all military advantages are equal. In a war of survival—where a nation is defending its population, its territory, and its right to exist—the value of military objectives is correspondingly higher. That is fundamentally different from the counterinsurgency and counterterrorism campaigns the West has fought for the past two decades in distant lands, far from its own cities and civilians. Israel is fighting an enemy just kilometers from its borders, one that has already carried out the worst massacre of Jews since the Holocaust. That existential context matters. It shapes the military calculus, and it must shape how the world applies the laws of war.
To judge wars solely by casualty ratios is to hand a blueprint to every terrorist organization on earth: embed within civilians, provoke a response, inflate the death toll, and let the world do the rest. It would make lawful self-defense functionally impossible—especially for democracies.
Hamas knows this. It’s why they built Gaza for war. It’s why they operate from hospitals, mosques, and UN schools. It’s why they don't distinguish their fighters in death. Civilian deaths aren’t a tragic byproduct for Hamas—they are a strategic asset.
The belief that Hamas could be destroyed without bloodshed is not just naïve—it’s dangerous. It sets a standard no military on earth can meet, especially when facing an enemy that does everything possible to ensure civilian deaths.
If October 7 had happened in the U.S., the UK, or any NATO country, the response would have been swift, overwhelming, and just. The only difference is that Israel has fewer tools and more constraints—yet continues to comply with the laws of armed conflict while taking unprecedented steps to protect civilians.
“Not this” is not a strategy. It’s not analysis. And it’s not serious.
It is the language of those too comfortable to confront the real cost of defending a free people from genocidal enemies.
And every time it’s repeated, it plays directly into Hamas’s hands.

John Spencer is executive director of the
Urban Warfare Institute
. He is the coauthor of
Understanding Urban Warfare

Urban Warfare Institute

The Urban Warfare Institute is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit dedicated to advancing the study of urban environments, urban operations, and urban warfare. Our research spans the entire conflict spectrum and provides valuable insights to a diverse range of stake...

https://www.urbanwarfareinstitute.com/

Twiglets1 · 06/06/2025 10:59

Badh · 06/06/2025 10:44

Yes it is tiresome. Criticism of a state’s policies or actions isn’t the same as prejudice. I haven’t seen anyone on this thread be supportive of terrorism.

I have seen people on here deny that Hamas are terrorists despite them being a proscribed terrorist organisation according to the UK, US & EU.

To me that feels like an attempt to minimise Hamas actions and intentions.

Moglet4 · 06/06/2025 11:18

Posting John Spencer is hardly going to help you convince others to your point of view! Have you ever actually listened to him?

Moglet4 · 06/06/2025 11:24

No one ever has but there are 3 or 4 absolutely rabid supporters of Israel on MN who will hear no criticism of the Israeli government or actions and merely accuse people of anti semitism. In real life, people generally take a more nuanced view and fortunately that includes a lot of Jews in Israel itself - let’s hope that this eventually results in a change of government, holding those responsible to account and trying to find a better way forward. I hope the hatred now doesn’t run too deep.

Martymcfly24 · 06/06/2025 11:33

Moglet4 · 06/06/2025 11:18

Posting John Spencer is hardly going to help you convince others to your point of view! Have you ever actually listened to him?

Posting John Spencer, a person who denies, justifies or minimizes civilian casualties on a thread about a doctor who buried her husband and nine children due to an airstrike on civilians could be seen as slightly distasteful?

Moglet4 · 06/06/2025 11:39

That too. I was actually referring to how biased he is, though. He supports the IDF to the point of blindness to any possible misdemeanour even by rogue individuals. His claims have also been successfully refuted more than once.

Martymcfly24 · 06/06/2025 11:49

Moglet4 · 06/06/2025 11:18

Posting John Spencer is hardly going to help you convince others to your point of view! Have you ever actually listened to him?

Is he buddies with that Andrew Fox who has questionable statistics on death to argue with Hamas questionable statistics. .

Read this article on his "lies" :
-Israel are not starving people-yes they are.
-Israel is illegally occupying Gaza.- according to International law they are
-Israel violates Hamas prisoners’ rights under the Geneva Conventions. - they have repeatedly held prisoners unlawfully and without charge

His bias is very clear.

Sorry I don't know why I keep quoting you @Moglet4

AIBUHere · 06/06/2025 11:53

Moglet4 · 06/06/2025 11:39

That too. I was actually referring to how biased he is, though. He supports the IDF to the point of blindness to any possible misdemeanour even by rogue individuals. His claims have also been successfully refuted more than once.

Where have they been refuted? By whom? Someone of the same level of expertise and experience I would hope?

I wait with bated breath for the links.

Do you mean he’s ‘biased’ due to using facts and experience, and having been in Gaza, rather than an anti-Israel narrative?

Swipe left for the next trending thread