Israeli movements against Settlements?

[hareclive]

yesterday I had a thread deleted from the Chat section because of inflammatory negative generalisations that I made about Israelis in my opening post. the post was to discuss Louis Theroux s documentary on The Settlers.

there were claims on the thread that the Settlers of nationalist extremists and that not all Israelis support Settlements. from my POV all the Israeli spokespeople and voices I have seen and heard, DO support Settlements. it is my understanding that the vast majority of Israelis support Settlements? I think it isn't accurate to say that it isn't representative of Israelis? DW was an elected mayor and is nominated for a Nobel prize by Israeli university professors so she isn't considered a nutter by mainstream Israelis as far as I can see

other comments on the thread suggested that both sides are as bad as each other. when I tried to explore this I was given a link to an attack on an Israeli family from 2011. but what I can't find is any evidence that it is commonplace for Palestinians to want to remove all Israelis from the land. there is no national movement to do this. the spokespeople for Palestinians just talk about living in peace and having the occupation removed

tldr: I'm genuinely interested in hearing about Israeli opposition to the Settlements and occupation. and understanding what the mainstream Israeli POV is on this? because from the outside it does look like nationalistic religious extremism, at this point

There are a small minority on the left of Israeli society who don't only object to the settlers and their extremist behaviour but also try and protect the Palestinians from their violence. For example youth volunteers who try to help protect the farmers at times where violence is likely expected ie olive harvest season.
They are small in number and their efforts should be commended but unfortunately they are overshadowed by those who don't care or even support the settler movement which are greater in number.

oh yes, these were actually shown in the documentary weren't they. do you have any idea what percentage of the population they would be?

you would hope that a large majority would be as horrified as we are. as I understand it, most think that settlement is important for their security

I imagine there's a lot of ignorance and /or indifference to settlers by a lot of Israelis. And sadly probably a lot of support too, there are definitely members of their Government who actively support settlers.

it is my understanding that the vast majority of Israelis support Settlements?

Yes I remember your thread from last night. Was pleased it got deleted. Anyway...with regards to the comment you made which I've highlighted above...can you explain where your "understanding" comes from?

from hearing/reading Israeli politicians and spokespeople ...netanyahu, Tzipi Hovelly, Eylon Levy, Ben Gvir, Daniella Weiss etc...and just that I can't find any Israeli spokespeople AGAINST settlements. none of the self appointed advocates for Israel that I have found speak against Settlements

I expect you to criticise my sources. but instead why don't you point me to the sources that will enlighten me

Sorry I don't know what percentage they are. Sadly, over time they have increasingly come under fire by the settlers who view them as 'traitors'.

I don't have to enlighten you. I haven't made any claims I need to back up.

You have named five people...yet you say the majority of Israelis support the settlements... Israel has a population of ten million. You can't possibly know what percentage support the settlements

As the elected government seems pro-settler it is reasonable to assume the population who voted for them are pro-settler, surely?

Elections in Israel
Elections in Israel are based on nationwide proportional representation. The electoral threshold is currently set at 3.25%, with the number of seats a party receives in the Knesset being proportional to the number of votes it receives. The Knesset is elected for a four-year term, although most governments have not served a full term and early elections are a frequent occurrence
Proportional representation
Proportional representation refers to any electoral system under which subgroups of an electorate are reflected proportionately in the elected body. The concept applies mainly to political divisions among voters. The aim of such systems is that all votes cast contribute to the result so that each representative in an assembly is mandated by a roughly equal number of voters, and therefore all votes have equal weight.

I wonder what UK parliament would look like under PR.

Very different I imagine… our 2 main parties have not had the courage to move to PR as they want to keep it a 2 horse race.

It’s more reasonable to assume that people vote for a party on a range of issues that mainly affect them.

Also, Netanyahu is not expected to win the next election.

it is my understanding that the vast majority of Israelis support Settlements? I think it isn't accurate to say that it isn't representative of Israelis? DW was an elected mayor and is nominated for a Nobel prize by Israeli university professors so she isn't considered a nutter by mainstream Israelis as far as I can see

Jew here with Israeli family. Assuming you are posting in good faith - no, the majority don't support settlements. Settlements = higher levels of conflict with Gazans and Palestinians on the west bank = more instability, knife or bomb attacks and rockets lobbed over major cities. And when it's your children/neighbours/friends in the army and at risk, that's not what you want. (A lot of the settlers are religious and therefore exempt from national service, although that is changing/threatened to change, so having your kid put at risk to defend a religious nut who decided to perch on a random hillside and call it Judea... it's not popular, funnily enough.)

I'm simplyfying, but as broadly as I can put it.

Beyond that, "vast majority of Israelis" is hard to typify. In the big cities, where people are modern and progressive, I'd say it's a combination of wanting peace (either for its own sake or for the sake of their safety or both), fear of Israel's stance internationally, in some cases racism, their own experiences in the IDF, and then a degree of movement based on political leanings. I've no idea how more religious Jews would frame it.

I think this would show a huge amount of apathy towards Palestinian suffering which I think is propably accurate. He might be pro throwing people out of their homes, installing apartheid streets and harassing Palestinians everyday of their lives but hmm, free school meals for my kids, he has my vote!

It's not like we are talking about a politician who is not so hot on environmental issues but everything else is aligns with your values, the bad here is really, really bad. Im not sure if the majority of Israelis are actually actively pro settlements but certainly I don't think the majority care about it enough to do anything, it's not like this is a new issue that's suddey come to light. If the majority really cared about the abuse of Palestinians then it wouldn't happen on such a mass scale, over such a prolonged period of time and it certainly wouldnt have been escalating so rapidly as was seen from 2022 on.

thank you for posting. I am really relieved to hear that most Israelis don't support Settlements. are there any political candidates that are against settlement/would implement international law if they had the power?

Yes. Here’s a neutral, I think, list of all the political parties in Israel, which span the political spectrum. A huge problem (imo) is that Israel operates proportional representation , with the obvious impact on political manoeuvring.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Israel

What do you think From The River To The Sea Means?

I found this research report about it.

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/06/20/settlements-and-violence-in-the-west-bank-and-east-jerusalem/

My impression is that a significant amount of Israeli’s believe god gave them Israel - this biblical rights idea. It seems to me also that the idea that peace will be achieved through military action is also commonly held.

So you, me and many people watching the documentary here are viewing DW’s views through a different lens. She seems nuts to us but I’m guessing that DW’s views might be controversial within Israel but perhaps not seen as completely nuts.

@2024onwardsandup The context and intent matters. For instance, someone who supports the IDF, the “world’s most moral army”, and the current Israeli government, it might seem as though there is genocidal intent. But to many innocent Palestinians and those who are in favour of human rights, would argue that it means something completely different and that it simply means that Palestinians have a right to self-determination, to not live an apartheid state, to live in their homeland as free and equal citizens, neither dominated by others nor dominating them.

I believe that Israelis and Palestinians can co-exist. I do not agree with the actions of Hamas nor the IDF, but even without the existence of Hamas, the Israeli government has been persecuting innocent Palestinians for decades so I do believe it’s a complex situation where Palestinians do have a right to defend themselves, they have a right to protect themselves from genocide. Israel is attacking ambulances, hospitals, schools, blocking aid etc. and this has been going on for far longer than 7/10 so I believe the Israeli government should be held accountable for its actions as well as its human rights violations not to mention blocking aid time and time again. Armed settlers attacking communities might be on the rise, but settler violence isn’t anything new. Villages are constantly being bulldozed or destroyed but the Palestinians are not allowed to rebuild and so if your home is destroyed, to fix and rebuild and construct a new home is considered illegal.

I dont believe you're posting in good faith. In particular your third paragraph seems quite disconnected to reality.

You don't believe it's common for Palestians to want to remove Israelis from the land? But yet Gaza voted for Hamas? I know that was a while ago. I've linked to a much more recent poll by the Guardian showing significant not majority support for Hamas. In particular note this part-

When it comes to long-term political futures in Gaza, slightly less than half (48%) of Palestinians remain supportive of some form of a two-state solution. Others said the more realistic scenarios for ending the conflict involve the displacement of Jews from the region (20%), or the establishment of one state under strict sharia law (27%), in which Jews would have fewer rights. Only 5% believed in a one-state solution with coexistence under equal rights.

Whole article here-

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/feb/21/people-gaza-future-hamas-poll

What is Hamas if not a national movement to remove Jews from the land?

The extremists on both sides are responsible for the ongoing slaughter.

Let's hope for more moderate voices on both sides asap.

Too many people holding extremist views on both sides.

I share your hope for more moderate voices on both sides asap @dairydebris

@dairydebris The average age of Palestinians in Gaza is 19 years old. Benjamin Netyanhu time and time again has rejected the two-state solution and Israeli lawmakers have voted to back his rejection. To ask the average Palestinian who doesn’t have a power to change anything is being disingenuous. Israel has been illegally encroaching on Palestinian Territory and yet Netyanhu does not want to go back to the 1967 border lines according to the UN partition plan so he clearly does not want a Palestinian state based on 1967 lines and has not proposed a viable solution. Instead he’s quite happy to condone settler violence, believes the IDF is the world’s most moral army, is bulldozing Palestinians’ ancestral villages, having more and more checkpoints to herd the innocent Palestinians like sheep etc. And we have to ask the Gazans, who have little to no legal recourse (it’s even illegal to rebuild their own homes, they’re simply allowed to “return”), very little food, water and fuel etc., what they want as a solution? If all they’ve known is death and destruction, can you blame them for not trusting the Israeli government?

No. I don't blame them at all. They are the real victims in all this, growing up in a society that glorifies hate and violence, constantly oppressed by both Israel and their own government. It's no wonder there's so much hatred on both sides given the violence that's taking place everyday. That's only human.

Whats needed is for both Hamas and Netanyahu to go.

Hamas first.

It’s been over a decade since this took place and yet we haven’t been getting any closer to the two-state solution. The UN Partition Plan tried to divide the country according to demographic concentrations, so it clearly wasn’t ideal, however this was what Israel was created with those border lines in place and yet it hasn’t prevented Israel’s illegal presence in Occupied Palestinian Territory so what will stop Israel and who will they actually listen to?

Hamas first because Netanyahu can be voted out democratically and very likely will be but Hamas won't hold elections so have to be ousted some other way.