Israeli movements against Settlements?

[hareclive]

yesterday I had a thread deleted from the Chat section because of inflammatory negative generalisations that I made about Israelis in my opening post. the post was to discuss Louis Theroux s documentary on The Settlers.

there were claims on the thread that the Settlers of nationalist extremists and that not all Israelis support Settlements. from my POV all the Israeli spokespeople and voices I have seen and heard, DO support Settlements. it is my understanding that the vast majority of Israelis support Settlements? I think it isn't accurate to say that it isn't representative of Israelis? DW was an elected mayor and is nominated for a Nobel prize by Israeli university professors so she isn't considered a nutter by mainstream Israelis as far as I can see

other comments on the thread suggested that both sides are as bad as each other. when I tried to explore this I was given a link to an attack on an Israeli family from 2011. but what I can't find is any evidence that it is commonplace for Palestinians to want to remove all Israelis from the land. there is no national movement to do this. the spokespeople for Palestinians just talk about living in peace and having the occupation removed

tldr: I'm genuinely interested in hearing about Israeli opposition to the Settlements and occupation. and understanding what the mainstream Israeli POV is on this? because from the outside it does look like nationalistic religious extremism, at this point

I watched the settlers documentary last night. It was very subtle but extremely telling. The views of people in Israel have been warped by those in power but they definitely do hold these views in majority.

People have known this for years and the vast majority of the UK public sympathise with the Palestinian people. Their experience of apartheid was so apparent in the documentary. There is no way this cannot be apartheid.

We need to really distance ourselves from Israel. It's nothing like the UK. Just lots of hillbillies from America.

Can you point to any post on Mumsnet where you have criticised Hamas?

The Settlers are not Israel. They are a group of extremists and I sympathise with the Palestinian people having to put up with them but they aren't representative of the whole of Israel.

The settlers' worldview is essentially indistinguishable from the argument for creating the state of Israel in the first place, so it's hardly surprising that there isn't a lot of active opposition to the settler movement in mainstream Israeli society.

Also, why do the settlers always have really gross homes. They are always so dirty.

I always wonder why they trash the land so much but are they just really messy as people? :/

Seems a strange aspect of their lives to focus on but ok.

Twiglets has been around for ages.

They frequently criticize Israel. They don't same the same thing over and over.

I've reported your post for troll hunting because being wrong isn't actually against guidelines 😉

Thank you.

Mumsnet will well know I'm not a troll as I post a lot on other forums too and as you say, frequently do criticise Israel too where I think the IDF have gone too far or where Israeli people are extremists like the Settlers and I'm no fan of Netanyahu.

What do you think was the argument for creating Israel in the first place? In what way are they indistinguishable? What are the arguments for both you're referring to?

And now we have the Holocaust Inversion, loud and clear... what with the refusal to admit Hamas should just surrender and the bot watchers I think this thread is essentially over.
@BaitalI suggest you Google Holocaust Inversion.

A convenient way of ignoring the point I am making.

I expected it!

Are you saying someone from Texas has more right to Palestinian territory than Palestinians whose families have been there for generations?

Well said.

Why did you feel the need to bring up the holocaust? Surely you could have put across your point without doing that?

Yes, Hamas should surrender.

And Israel should demolish the illegal settlements (which do, of course, long pre-date 7/10).

Read the thread, I'm not wasting my time with you. Enjoy google. Goodnight!

Because that was my train of thought.

I couldn't stomach the settlers. I saw Shoah on iplayer, which I couldn't find last year on YouTube (lots of snippets, not the whole thing) so decided to watch it to bolster my support for Israel, despite concerns about fringe elements.

But the parallels were so bl**dy obvious between the settlers and Greater Germany.

Also with Northern Ireland.

Two groups of extremists convinced that history gave them a right to trample over 'other people'.

Peace (not perfect, but better than the previous 30 years) only came about when they gave up on their past claims of total occupation, and started to work out how to live with disagreement, disappointment and painful compromise.

"but what I can't find is any evidence that it is commonplace for Palestinians to want to remove all Israelis from the land."

Have a look at the Hamas charter.

This thread is just ridiculously biased.

The Hamas charter isn't all Palestinians.

The settlers aren't all Israelis.

Surely?

Why hold all Palestinians to Hamas, but then say not all Israelis support the Israeli government line on illegal settlements?

Nice inversion

Except it is completely non comparable to anyone with a reasonable understanding of history.

The comment was "any evidence".

Their defacto government is the evidence.

Please explain?

The settlers claim a God given right to territory owned and farmed by other people for generations.

The Germans claimed an ethnic right to land owned and farmed by other people for generations.

In both cases removing previous occupants from the lands, and treating them as second class citizens.

With devices such as 'Administrative detention' that doesn't require a legal trial.

Well, yes. The actions of the government are the evidence, in both cases! You prove my point!