Anyone watched the Louis Theroux documentary

[Ninerina]

I knew that things were bad for the Palestinians but after watching the documentary I'm so disgusted by the 'settlers' the government of Israel and especially Daniella Weiss.
Palestinians are referred to as savages and camel riders by a rabbi!
Will we get a chorus of how Louis Theroux is anti- semitic now? The usual battle cry of the Israel supporters

They don't keep the hostages as leverage. They keep them out of pure cruelty and hatred.

Netanyahu will cling to power through his extremist buddies as long as possible because the second he's no longer in power he's going to have to deal with his legal troubles. We can hope Israelis will sort him out by democratic process next year. As it is, he's going to continue going after Hamas in Gaza as long as he possibly can, and after the invasion of 7 October there's powerful arguments for doing so. And he's backed up by the egomaniac in the WH.

The best hope for Gaza is for Hamas to just return the hostages and surrender. That's what they should do for their citizens. Their citizens are firstly their responsibility, not Israel's.

This all ends with Hamas' surrender. Even Abbas is saying it. Return the hostages, surrender, and start talking about how to stop this hundreds of years old cycle.

The best hope for Gaza is for Hamas to just return the hostages @dairydebris

Israel could have had them back as part of the phased return that Netanyahu had agreed to in January. It was Netanyahu who later changed his mind and decided that a ceasefire and hostage return were worth less than his majority in the Knesset, which was being threatened.

Agree.

I don't think getting hostages back is Netanyahu's priority either.

I still support Israels right to make war on Hamas. They invaded Israel on 7 October. They openly say they'll do it again.

Netanyahu continues this war for his own political survival as well as reasons above. God knows what the relative % influencing his decision are. Israel is a sovereign nation and has the right to choose to do this. Whatever you or I think.

It all ends if Hamas surrenders and returns hostages. And thousands of Gazans won't be needlessly slaughtered.

This all ends with Hamas' surrender. Even Abbas is saying it. Return the hostages, surrender, and start talking about how to stop this hundreds of years old cycle.

Considering the topic of this thread and how this cannot 'all end' until Israeli settler terrorists are stopped I'm curious as to how you think the settler terrorist problem can be dealt with? It's clear from the doc that their ideology means they won't be happy until Palestinians are dead or gone. Who do you think should be dealing with these extremists and how would you like to see them dealt with?

I think Hamas should surrender and return hostages.
I think Israel should then ceasefire.
I hope Israel gets a more moderate voices next year.
I hope the PA takes over running Gaza and renounces all violence.
I hope they sit down and talk for as long as it takes.
I think all settlers on Palestinian land should be forced to move off Palestinian land initially, as happened in Gaza 2005.
I hope some time in the future, Israelis will be able to live in Palestinian areas and Palestinians will be able to live in Israeli areas, with no violence. I know it's a long way off, but I believe it's possible.

But I think it all starts with the dissolution of Hamas.

Yes, to all of this. And I think things might be moving in that direction. The Egypt plan to have the PA govern both the WB and Gaza will go a long way towards the Palestinians having their own state with one government.

Maybe that's why the UK government has given the PA £100million+ to bolster the administration of their finances. Didn't they do something similar when forming a government in Iraq?

But all this is a pipe dream until Hamas is gone.

So you think that the Israeli settler terrorists should be paid off(by the Israeli government?) to move back to Israel? Do you think that this will work considering the same year they were paid to leave Gaza the population of the settlements in the West Bank grew by 15,000(less than 9000 left Gaza), so the problem of Israeli extremism was just transfered to different Palestinian land rather than being forced to leave Palestinian land as you claim.

It didn't work last time clearly or else we wouldn't still be seeing Israeli settler terrorism extremism nevermind the fact that the problem has grown exponentially since Gaza settlers were paid off, what makes you think funding settler terrorists would work this time around when it failed so badly last time?

What’s your solution @Mylegishangingoff

If you don’t have one why do you expect others to have all the answers?

The families of the hostages are incredibly angry at Netanyahu. They believe he is willing to sacrifice them in order to flatten Gaza. If you want to know how angry people are, you should see those families. I know one. They're protesting in the streets, at minister's houses. The New York Times profile of Einav Zangauker, the mother of one hostage, was absolutely heartbreaking.

I'd imagine they might well have to be paid off yes.

I believe it's possible for it to work, if it's backed by sincerely meant government policy. I think it did work in Gaza, meaning there's no Israeli settlements there. Obviously it didn't solve the big picture, but I'd argue that's because there has been no real commitment from either side to a peace process.

I don't believe Israeli extremists are any worse or better than any other brand of extremists. They're supremacists, they're everywhere, everyone has them. The danger comes when these supremacists have too much power, hence Hamas, and increasingly Israel under Bibi.

Just because everything so far has failed doesn't mean nothing can ever work.

Anyway that's just a possible pathway I can see. Perhaps you could share one you could see?

I can't imagine their fury and despair. I hope these feelings contribute towards his not getting re-elected.

I just saw online that Israeli soldiers and settlers attacked and raided the home of activist Issa Amro
He believes its because he took part in the documentary. Its absolute appalling

It is appalling.

Hamas did use hostages for leverage originally, that was the point of them and they did release them when they got some trades for prisoners and a ceasefire agreement ( before that was broken in March). It seems clear no ceasefire or prisoner/captive exchange will happen now though.

Hamas probably hope the hostages’ families will persuade Netanyahu to do a deal and agree a ceasefire but it seems clear enough he won’t and that the US won’t tell him to.

Surrender and releasing the hostages is what the Hamas captors should do, as you say but somehow it seems unlikely they will do this.

I don’t actually think Netanyahu would stop if they surrendered though, as there will always another tunnel to bomb, another Palestinian going into a building who is somehow under suspicion and needs bombing and on it will go so Netanyahu can keep a war going.

Maybe eventually, at best, there would be an Israeli military controlled Gaza for remaining Palestinians; with Palestinians encouraged to leave and Israeli settlers moved in.

It probably isn’t in the character of Hamas to surrender now. They might feel they have nothing to lose by fighting to the death and taking all the civilians with them. Horribly, the Hamas fighters guarding the hostages will most likely just kill them if they are cornered. The hostages’ families must feel desperate.

There's still not been any condemnation in the West of Hamas' treatment of Palestinians. Shameful indeed.

Where is this from? Who published this?

Aha see the handle when you click on it

Where's the condemnation for Israeli settlers and the IDF attacking this innocent Palestinian, for taking part in the documentary that is being discussed on this thread?

It's a few posts up from me, but in case you missed it... those Israeli settlers are abhorrent extremists, unfortunately many many societies have them... they seem to be a feature of human society, the outliers if you will, and the important bit is that they don't get too much power or influence.

They were gifted quite a few quad bikes from the Israeli government recently, the same ones they have been using to terrorise Palestinians. I think it's a little too late to hope they don't get alot of power or influence.

Agree, as I said above.

They are also not the usual outliers we see in other societies because they are aided by the state and military in carrying out their terrorism.

Oh come on.

Hamas
Trump and the Proud Boys
Isis
Bloody EDL here

That's in 30s flat

There's extremists / supremacists everywhere. It's not unique to Israel. The more influence over government they have the worse it gets. If they actually become government it's much, much worse.

You really believe Israeli supremacists are uniquely awful?

In a society that's considered a democracy, yes. The EDL are certainly not openly supported by our government and police.

I'm not saying they are. I'm saying all societies have extremists. They receive varying levels of support from government. The more support / influence they have, the worse off that society is. It appears to be an awful part of the huge variability of being human in society.

I can't believe you'd bother disagreeing with me about this, unless you believe the Israeli extremists are uniquely awful. Do you?