Anyone watched the Louis Theroux documentary

[Ninerina]

I knew that things were bad for the Palestinians but after watching the documentary I'm so disgusted by the 'settlers' the government of Israel and especially Daniella Weiss.
Palestinians are referred to as savages and camel riders by a rabbi!
Will we get a chorus of how Louis Theroux is anti- semitic now? The usual battle cry of the Israel supporters

In what way do you mean?

Sure. It just comes off as- 'oh, we can't expect anything of those naughty terrorists can we?'

I hate hearing it.

'The hostages should be released but I can understand why Hamas wouldn't.'

Awful argument.

Hamas have suggested a five year truce. They say they'll never accept the existence of Israel so more hostility will be inevitable. Why on earth would Israel agree to a deal that doesn't bring them long term peace?

Israel won’t agree to a ceasefire because they are winning

This is so true. They were always going to “win” Maximum destruction was the goal and they have achieved this and more. That’s why international governments need to properly put pressure on the Israeli government. A ceasefire needs to be the least bad option for them. Will never happen now with the whole Trump Gaza plan of course.

Well if Israel are determined to continue attacking Gaza until Hamas are annihilated, and are anyway disinterested in the hostages, then realistically why would they spontaneously be released? They are one of the few ways in this scenario that Hamas can still hurt Israel (in several ways). When Israel can continue blockading whenever they want, and will anyway continue to bombard a captive population of sitting ducks, letting one lot of aid through is not a substantial offer. Unfortunately if Netanyahu is not interested in securing their release, the hostages are not in a good position. It’s extremely sad and horrifying for those people and their families. I can’t imagine the anguish they are going through.

Losers in war don't get to make requests. Hamas can end the war any time they like. Just surrender and release the hostages.

It must be an extremely worrying time for the hostages & their families and some of the families have been protesting about it, understandably.

But I don’t think Netanyahu will back down ( hope I’m wrong). I think he is absolutely determined now to destroy Hamas, especially as they are less strong now than he perhaps feared them to be at the beginning and have less support from allies.

I still don’t see how it benefits Hamas to keep the hostages anyway and for what? To kill them one day just because they can? I suppose it’s pointless me trying to get inside their minds because they murdered civilians indiscriminately on October 7th so it would hardly worry them to kill a few more.

It’s not an argument, I’m not arguing for this outcome, it’s just looking logically at why something is or is not likely to happen. Others on the thread said they couldn’t understand why the hostages have not just been released.

And others have also pointed out quite dispassionately that Israel is winning, so logically they will continue attacking Gaza, and Gazan citizens will continue to be killed until total submission is achieved. Another pointed out that Netanyahu himself does not see the hostages as a priority.

I don’t think it means that these posters welcome those innocent people suffering?

I certainly don’t welcome innocent people suffering- Israeli or Palestinian.

But yes - to be dispassionate about it - Israel are winning and as @Odras commented, were always going to “win”. Apart from if other countries had joined in with the attack on Israel, which I can only imagine Hamas expected to happen or else the attack was a monumentally stupid thing for them to do.

And yes - Hamas may decide to kill the hostages because it is one of the few ways left they can really hurt Israel. I appreciate you said it dispassionately just because it’s logical, not because it’s an outcome you want.

The Palestinian Authority just issued a direct condemnation of Hamas, accusing it of looting humanitarian aid in Gaza.

Maybe this will now wake up the West as they've been utterly weak so far 🤞

The statement posted to the PA’s official Wafa news agency said Abbas “expressed his categorical rejection and firm condemnation of the looting and theft carried out by criminal gangs targeting warehouses and storage facilities of humanitarian aid designated for the people of Gaza.” It added that the PA “held Hamas-affiliated gangs primarily responsible, emphasizing that the Palestinian people will not forgive these disgraceful acts committed in such a critical time, especially in the besieged Strip.” Last month, Abbas made headlines by calling Hamas “sons of dogs,” demanding that the terror group release hostages it is holding to eliminate what he said was Israel’s pretext to continue its war in Gaza.

It’s really not. I really hope there is some way they can still get back to their families. To watch this unfold so powerlessly must be the worst kind of hell.

Oh Polly. The war didn't start on 7/10. It's been going on for AT LEAST 75 years. Hamas behaviour may have be the excuse Israel are using to justify war and Genocide. But they certainly didn't start it.

It's been going on far longer. Arabs have been massacring Jews in that area since at least the 1500s. 7/10 was just the latest pogrom

Before you oh Polly me, learn some history

You might also want to research dhimmitude and the Jizya tax. Honestly, after oppressing Jews for hundreds of years they're going to fight back against their oppressors right? And whatever they do is therefore justified. That's how it goes, I believe

Interesting rewriting of History, as far as I am aware after the Expulsion of Jewish people from Spain after the Alhambra declaration in 1492 many Jewish people obtained refuge in the Ottoman Empire (including Arabia).

https://www.thejc.com/opinion/so-what-did-the-muslims-do-for-the-jews-dp63sti8

It's not rewriting anything. Go and research dhimmitude and the Jizya tax

Are you also denying the many pogroms carried out by Arabs on Jewish villages? Information on that can be found online too

I don't need to write anything, there's already plenty of websites where you can find this information

And you highlighting some good that Arabs did doesn't erase or negate the oppression and murders they also carried out

Humans are complicated

I have looked that up and now I think that it’s completely fine to kill innocent people now.

thanks for that.

'Humble servitude' what an interesting phrase.

The dhimma was granted by Muslim conquerors as a concession to the vanquished: an institutional legal framework which promised a measure of religious freedom, and determined the social and economic place of non-Muslims in the Islamic state. In return the people of the pact, known as dhimmis, were required to pay tribute in perpetuity to the Muslim Community (the umma), and to adopt a position of humble servitude to it.

The historian Bat Ye’or has documented the social, political, economic and religious conditions of dhimmi communities – Jews and Christians – in the Middle East.[2] This is a sad history of dispossession and decline. Legal provisions applying to dhimmis ensured their humiliation and inferiority, and to this was added the often crippling taxes which were allocated to support the Muslim community. Under conditions of dhimmitude there was also a constant risk of jihad conditions being reinvoked – of lawful massacre, enslavement and looting – if the dhimmi community was considered to have failed to live up to the conditions of their pact.[3] According to some jurists, a single non-Muslim’s failure to keep the dhimma conditions could result in the whole community losing its protection, and the jihad restarting.
History records many examples where dhimmis were attacked by their fellow Muslim citizens on such grounds, for example the massacres of the Jews of Granada in 1066, and of the Christians of Damascus in 1860.

This is from the Middle East Forum

Like sexism and racism, dhimmitude is not only manifested in legal and social structures, but in a psychology of inferiority, a will to serve, which the dominated community adopts in self-preservation. This was described by Bat Ye’or:
The law required from dhimmis a humble demeanor, eyes lowered, a hurried pace. They had to give way to Muslims in the street, remain standing in their presence and keep silent, only speaking to them when given permission. They were forbidden to defend themselves if attacked, or to raise a hand against a Muslim on pain of having it amputated. Any criticism of the Koran or Islamic law annuled the protection pact. In addition the dhimmi was duty-bound to be grateful, since it was Islamic law that spared his life.
The whole corpus of these practices ... formed an unchanging behavior pattern which was perpetuated from generation to generation for centuries. It was so deeply internalised that it escaped critical evaluation and invaded the realm of self-image, which was henceforth dominated by a conditioning in self-devaluation. ... This situation, determined by a corpus of precise legislation and social behaviour patterns based on prejudice and religious traditions, induced the same type of mentality in all dhimmi groups. It has four major characteristics: vulnerability, humiliation, gratitude and alienation.[4]

Again, this is from the Middle East Forum

They keep the hostages because it gives them some power for bargaining to get detainees/prisoners out and because if they released them the war will not stop anyway.

Netanyahu does not care about the remaining hostages.

Re indiscriminate murder
Israel is now massing thousands of reservists to do more killing in addition to the many many thousands they have already killed. Perhaps taking over Gaza for Israelis is now in their sights. No one is stopping them and it will be a fait accompli.

Getting chunks of the West Bank is going on a pace too.

Sorry, I lost the quote. I was responding to Twiglets yesterday 17:34.

If Netanyahu does not care about the remaining hostages then how does holding onto them give Hamas any real bargaining power?

The IDF will keep going until Hamas surrender.

I don't support the war (and war and genocide are not an either/or situation). However people who have only become aware of the situation in Gaza only recently are often unaware of how badly Hamas managed it, or dismiss it as Israeli propaganda and deflection. It is worth pointing out that Israel worsened the effects of Hamas mismanagement through its blockade. Nonetheless, Hamas has always prioritised their overall struggle, and let's remember that the top echelons of Hamas were living in Qatar with money they siphoned off while Gulf countries paid the salaries of civil servants. The people who defend Hamas as the Palestinian resistance are incredibly shortsighted. They can't seem to get their head round the idea that it's possible for both the Israeli government and Hamas to be terrible, though not in the same ways.

Here's an NPR article on the water situation in Gaza. This is from 2023, so it's worse now. https://www.npr.org/2023/12/29/1221571110/gaza-water-israel-crisis-hamas

There's wider context about Israeli water management, which is an even bigger deal in the West Bank. However Israelis increasingly use desalinated water as well, relieving the burden on the aquifers.

Why are Hamas prioritising getting prisoners released from jail over stopping the war and saving their people? If they release the hostages and surrender power to the Palestinian Authority or to a government formed by Egypt and other partners who have been trying to form a day after plan the war will end. Israel have been very clear what their aims are.

But Hamas are more interested in holding power than saving the lives of their people or bringing about long term peace. Hamas have been very clear they see Palestinians as human shields and martyrs for their cause. They have openly delegated their responsibility to look after the wellbeing of civilians to the UN and Israel. This is all well documented online, including by NATO

Reservists have been called up. Maybe that's so they can do more targeted operations, rather than aerial bombing which has its limitations. If so it will end up in less civilian collateral damage, which can only be a good thing. So I'm not automatically seeing an increase in reservists as something onerous. We need to see how it pans out.

You say no one is stopping Israel. Well why would they? Most of the world is disgusted by what Hamas did and what they promised to do again. We've all seen what happens when Hamas goes unchecked.

Hamas have the bargaining chips in the hostages, they can release them, surrender and end the war. They've lost, they're achieving nothing. They're out of friends, their people are rising up against them. They're finished. They need to accept that.