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Conflict in the Middle East

Anyone watched the Louis Theroux documentary

405 replies

Ninerina · 30/04/2025 15:06

I knew that things were bad for the Palestinians but after watching the documentary I'm so disgusted by the 'settlers' the government of Israel and especially Daniella Weiss.
Palestinians are referred to as savages and camel riders by a rabbi!
Will we get a chorus of how Louis Theroux is anti- semitic now? The usual battle cry of the Israel supporters

OP posts:
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12
PollyPaintsFlowers · 03/05/2025 06:28

Tryinghardtobefair · 03/05/2025 06:17

They didn't.
The level of denial you're in is incredibly unhealthy.

What on earth did Hamas think would happen after 7/10 and then promising to do it again? Hamas aren't children, they know actions have consequences and that Israel was then duty bound to prevent further atrocities

I'm not in denial, in fact I'm more of a realist than you are. It's hopelessly naive to think committing a massacre and promising more wouldn't lead to conflict.

Twiglets1 · 03/05/2025 06:52

PollyPaintsFlowers · 03/05/2025 06:28

What on earth did Hamas think would happen after 7/10 and then promising to do it again? Hamas aren't children, they know actions have consequences and that Israel was then duty bound to prevent further atrocities

I'm not in denial, in fact I'm more of a realist than you are. It's hopelessly naive to think committing a massacre and promising more wouldn't lead to conflict.

Hamas knew it would start a war. It was an incitement to violence.

What they miscalculated in my opinion is that they thought certain countries in the Middle East would offer more help in destroying Israel.

Whatsinanamehey · 03/05/2025 07:28

PollyPaintsFlowers · 03/05/2025 06:00

Also, not all water and electricity is supplied by Israel. Some of it, but not all.

Gazans would be a lot less reliant on Israel for water if Hamas hadn't dug up the pipework and used the parts to build rockets to fire at Israel. They can't even deny it, they are so sure of their cause they filmed themselves doing it for propaganda videos, to show how committed and hardworking the 'resistance' is

The amount of propaganda you have swallowed without doing any of your own research on the topic is quite disturbing.

PollyPaintsFlowers · 03/05/2025 07:37

Whatsinanamehey · 03/05/2025 07:28

The amount of propaganda you have swallowed without doing any of your own research on the topic is quite disturbing.

You can find the videos on YouTube, it's easy.

Whatsinanamehey · 03/05/2025 07:53

PollyPaintsFlowers · 03/05/2025 07:37

You can find the videos on YouTube, it's easy.

Once again you are incorrectly implying or misleading - Hamas being the imbeciles they are dug up water pipes that were no longer in use from abandoned settlements in Gaza. Not functioning infrastructure.

That in no way justifies Israel blocking aid into Gaza from all entrances including the Rafah entrance and punishing the population as a whole. You can be pro-Israeli and still admit where they are going wrong by breaking international law.

Whatsinanamehey · 03/05/2025 07:58

Even our own spineless government finally mustered the courage to say Israel was breaking international law by blocking aid into Gaza.

Whatsinanamehey · 03/05/2025 08:00

MidnightMusing5 · 02/05/2025 21:06

@stonecutter Palestine has no army, no navy, no airforce, zero military budget, all water electric etc all controlled by israel, 43% of it’s population is under the age of 14.

how dare you say it is a war/ conflict.

it is a genocide/ massacre.

I agree with you that it is a genocide and a dirty stain on humanity that it has been allowed to go on for so long.

PollyPaintsFlowers · 03/05/2025 08:09

Whatsinanamehey · 03/05/2025 07:53

Once again you are incorrectly implying or misleading - Hamas being the imbeciles they are dug up water pipes that were no longer in use from abandoned settlements in Gaza. Not functioning infrastructure.

That in no way justifies Israel blocking aid into Gaza from all entrances including the Rafah entrance and punishing the population as a whole. You can be pro-Israeli and still admit where they are going wrong by breaking international law.

You're the one actually being incorrect and misleading. It doesn't break international law to stop aid if that aid is being commandeered by the enemy. Gazans have already said Hamas are stealing their aid.

Again, you can find the videos on YouTube.

Whatsinanamehey · 03/05/2025 08:14

PollyPaintsFlowers · 03/05/2025 08:09

You're the one actually being incorrect and misleading. It doesn't break international law to stop aid if that aid is being commandeered by the enemy. Gazans have already said Hamas are stealing their aid.

Again, you can find the videos on YouTube.

Oh gosh Polly, honestly I can't deal with you today, you carry on believing what you want - I'm sure the rest of us can read for ourselves on what Israel is not only legally obliged to do but also the moral obligations of NOT starving little children despite what Hamas may or may not be doing. It is a site for mums after all so I'm sure the vast majority on here can agree it is wrong to intentionally starve children.

PollyPaintsFlowers · 03/05/2025 08:18

Whatsinanamehey · 03/05/2025 08:14

Oh gosh Polly, honestly I can't deal with you today, you carry on believing what you want - I'm sure the rest of us can read for ourselves on what Israel is not only legally obliged to do but also the moral obligations of NOT starving little children despite what Hamas may or may not be doing. It is a site for mums after all so I'm sure the vast majority on here can agree it is wrong to intentionally starve children.

Edited

Moral obligations don't always equal the law. Sad but true. It's awful but not illegal.

Ultimately, Hamas are free to surrender any time they like. They caused the war, they've clearly lost it.

I'm sure other mums aswell as I are horrified at the kidnapping and deaths of the Bibas children, aswell as the many other children shot and burned alive on 7/10, so will understand the importance of Israel never letting it happen again, especially after Hamas promised to repeat it.

PollyPaintsFlowers · 03/05/2025 08:19

Also, maybe little children in Gaza wouldn't starve if Hamas stopped stockpiling and stealing the aid, while murdering any Palestinians that try to stop them

Maybe you could comment on Hamas' moral obligations? They are the government in Gaza after all

Twiglets1 · 03/05/2025 08:23

Whatsinanamehey · 03/05/2025 07:58

Even our own spineless government finally mustered the courage to say Israel was breaking international law by blocking aid into Gaza.

David Lammy did say that the ongoing blockade of goods and supplies to the strip was a "breach of international law". Which I agree with.

However, he also reiterated that Israel "quite rightly must defend its own security", which I also agree with.

news.sky.com/story/israel-breaking-international-law-over-gaza-aid-blockade-uk-government-says-for-first-time-13331023

Whatsinanamehey · 03/05/2025 08:24

PollyPaintsFlowers · 03/05/2025 08:19

Also, maybe little children in Gaza wouldn't starve if Hamas stopped stockpiling and stealing the aid, while murdering any Palestinians that try to stop them

Maybe you could comment on Hamas' moral obligations? They are the government in Gaza after all

Sure, so you can keep the back and forth going and once again deflect from the actual topic at hand. No thanks.

PollyPaintsFlowers · 03/05/2025 08:33

Whatsinanamehey · 03/05/2025 08:24

Sure, so you can keep the back and forth going and once again deflect from the actual topic at hand. No thanks.

Why not? You care so much about Palestinians you're outraged at Israel but always avoid acknowledging how they're betrayed and murdered by their own government. It's not a deflection to talk about that when discussing Palestinian suffering

dairydebris · 03/05/2025 09:11

Still puzzled over here as to why people seem to hold Israel more responsible for the safety and wellbeing of Palestinians in Gaza than their own government, Hamas.

Israel looks after Israel first.
Hamas should be looking after Gaza first.

Martymcfly24 · 03/05/2025 09:40

dairydebris · 03/05/2025 09:11

Still puzzled over here as to why people seem to hold Israel more responsible for the safety and wellbeing of Palestinians in Gaza than their own government, Hamas.

Israel looks after Israel first.
Hamas should be looking after Gaza first.

As an Occupying Power(which they are) under the Geneva Convention among other responsibilities Israel must facilitate Humanitarian Aid.

There are 3000 trucks lined up that Israel are preventing from entering.

So it is their responsibility.

PollyPaintsFlowers · 03/05/2025 09:43

dairydebris · 03/05/2025 09:11

Still puzzled over here as to why people seem to hold Israel more responsible for the safety and wellbeing of Palestinians in Gaza than their own government, Hamas.

Israel looks after Israel first.
Hamas should be looking after Gaza first.

Exactly

MissyB1 · 03/05/2025 09:53

Martymcfly24 · 03/05/2025 09:40

As an Occupying Power(which they are) under the Geneva Convention among other responsibilities Israel must facilitate Humanitarian Aid.

There are 3000 trucks lined up that Israel are preventing from entering.

So it is their responsibility.

Yes its this 👆 @dairydebris im puzzled as to why you are puzzled! It's not difficult to understand is it?

PollyPaintsFlowers · 03/05/2025 09:59

MissyB1 · 03/05/2025 09:53

Yes its this 👆 @dairydebris im puzzled as to why you are puzzled! It's not difficult to understand is it?

Which part of the GC as Israel hasn't ratified all of it?

dairydebris · 03/05/2025 10:06

MissyB1 · 03/05/2025 09:53

Yes its this 👆 @dairydebris im puzzled as to why you are puzzled! It's not difficult to understand is it?

I'm puzzled because I've yet to see the same few names on here repeatedly questioning why Hamas didn't make shelters for their civilians, stockpile for their civilians, have anything in place for the destruction they knew would come about as a result of 7 October.

I'm not saying Israel are without fault in this situation, especially in the West Bank I personally think they're in danger of losing the dwindling amount of moral high ground they have left.

But it's the same few names on here constantly blaming Israel for the terrible situation in Gaza. Failing to hold terrorists to account for the consequences of their actions is almost tantamount to support.

Should Israel allow aid into Gaza? I think probably yes. But I'm not privy to all the intelligence miliary planners are, and also none of my relatives were murdered on 7/10, so what use is my opinion? However, it seems on here that people believe it's Israel's fault Gaza needs aid. It's not. Gaza didn't require food trucks on 6 October.

A lot of what I read on here seems more like hatred of Israel than support for civilians in Gaza.

Martymcfly24 · 03/05/2025 10:07

PollyPaintsFlowers · 03/05/2025 09:59

Which part of the GC as Israel hasn't ratified all of it?

It's the Fourth Geneva Convention from 1949. Israel signed it in 1951.

PollyPaintsFlowers · 03/05/2025 10:08

I've been reading articles on the Hoover Institute website and I found this part really interesting.

Applying the rules of war developed for combat between Western militaries becomes even more problematic given the nature of Hamas. Hamas is a terrorist organization that refuses to obey the rules of war, as it did by attacking a large music festival and undefended villages on Oct. 7. Its fighters neither wear visible uniforms nor operate in open, clear military formations, but instead seek to blend into the general population, as Hamas hides its personnel and assets among civilians.

Indeed, Hamas succeeds precisely by violating the laws of war and blurring the line between combatants and non-combatants, both on its own part and that of its victims. Extending unwarranted legal protections to Hamas only multiplies its incentive to continue disregarding the principles of humanity on the battlefield.

But Hamas’ activities are even more pernicious. Not only does it target the innocent and use civilians as shields to limit its own losses, but it deliberately invites attacks on its own population as a means of political and legal warfare. Widely transmitted images of civilian deaths generate sympathy for Hamas within the Arab world, and raise the political pressure on Israel from the United States, which provides Israel crucial military supplies, intelligence support, and financial backing. Hamas’s strategy became clear when it sought to prevent Gazans from complying with the Israeli warnings to evacuate the northern strip. For Hamas, the more Gazan civilians killed by Israeli strikes, the better. The laws of war do not easily apply to an enemy that seeks victory by deliberately increasing its own civilian casualties.

The ultimate issue is not a technical question of treaty law or customary law. If the law of armed conflict makes it impossible for a modern Western army to defeat terrorist warlords hiding behind civilians, that version of LOAC is a threat to civilization itself.

I also discovered that Hamas has signed up to the Geneva Convention which I didn't previously know, nor suspect, as their actions towards civilians both Israeli and Palestinian breaches so many of the conditions laid out in it

I'm wondering if and how the Geneva Convention and IHL will change in the aftermath of this war now that conflict, particularly in the Middle East, has changed from traditional Western warfare with uniformed soldiers and trenches to militants in civilian dress hiding amongst civilian populations in urban settings

It's not just something Israel has had to confront, but the Allies armies in Iraq and Afghanistan aswell

As warfare evolves so will the existing legal framework need to

For anyone interested in military history it's interesting times

dairydebris · 03/05/2025 10:12

PollyPaintsFlowers · 03/05/2025 10:08

I've been reading articles on the Hoover Institute website and I found this part really interesting.

Applying the rules of war developed for combat between Western militaries becomes even more problematic given the nature of Hamas. Hamas is a terrorist organization that refuses to obey the rules of war, as it did by attacking a large music festival and undefended villages on Oct. 7. Its fighters neither wear visible uniforms nor operate in open, clear military formations, but instead seek to blend into the general population, as Hamas hides its personnel and assets among civilians.

Indeed, Hamas succeeds precisely by violating the laws of war and blurring the line between combatants and non-combatants, both on its own part and that of its victims. Extending unwarranted legal protections to Hamas only multiplies its incentive to continue disregarding the principles of humanity on the battlefield.

But Hamas’ activities are even more pernicious. Not only does it target the innocent and use civilians as shields to limit its own losses, but it deliberately invites attacks on its own population as a means of political and legal warfare. Widely transmitted images of civilian deaths generate sympathy for Hamas within the Arab world, and raise the political pressure on Israel from the United States, which provides Israel crucial military supplies, intelligence support, and financial backing. Hamas’s strategy became clear when it sought to prevent Gazans from complying with the Israeli warnings to evacuate the northern strip. For Hamas, the more Gazan civilians killed by Israeli strikes, the better. The laws of war do not easily apply to an enemy that seeks victory by deliberately increasing its own civilian casualties.

The ultimate issue is not a technical question of treaty law or customary law. If the law of armed conflict makes it impossible for a modern Western army to defeat terrorist warlords hiding behind civilians, that version of LOAC is a threat to civilization itself.

I also discovered that Hamas has signed up to the Geneva Convention which I didn't previously know, nor suspect, as their actions towards civilians both Israeli and Palestinian breaches so many of the conditions laid out in it

I'm wondering if and how the Geneva Convention and IHL will change in the aftermath of this war now that conflict, particularly in the Middle East, has changed from traditional Western warfare with uniformed soldiers and trenches to militants in civilian dress hiding amongst civilian populations in urban settings

It's not just something Israel has had to confront, but the Allies armies in Iraq and Afghanistan aswell

As warfare evolves so will the existing legal framework need to

For anyone interested in military history it's interesting times

Interesting.

Also, desperately sad the lengths humans will go to for an idea.

Twiglets1 · 03/05/2025 10:14

dairydebris · 03/05/2025 10:06

I'm puzzled because I've yet to see the same few names on here repeatedly questioning why Hamas didn't make shelters for their civilians, stockpile for their civilians, have anything in place for the destruction they knew would come about as a result of 7 October.

I'm not saying Israel are without fault in this situation, especially in the West Bank I personally think they're in danger of losing the dwindling amount of moral high ground they have left.

But it's the same few names on here constantly blaming Israel for the terrible situation in Gaza. Failing to hold terrorists to account for the consequences of their actions is almost tantamount to support.

Should Israel allow aid into Gaza? I think probably yes. But I'm not privy to all the intelligence miliary planners are, and also none of my relatives were murdered on 7/10, so what use is my opinion? However, it seems on here that people believe it's Israel's fault Gaza needs aid. It's not. Gaza didn't require food trucks on 6 October.

A lot of what I read on here seems more like hatred of Israel than support for civilians in Gaza.

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

More hatred of Israel than support for civilians in Gaza.

Twiglets1 · 03/05/2025 10:16

Martymcfly24 · 03/05/2025 09:40

As an Occupying Power(which they are) under the Geneva Convention among other responsibilities Israel must facilitate Humanitarian Aid.

There are 3000 trucks lined up that Israel are preventing from entering.

So it is their responsibility.

But why is Israel more responsible than for the safety and wellbeing of Palestinians in Gaza than their own government?

That is the question @dairydebris asked which no one has answered yet.

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