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Conflict in the Middle East

Anyone watched the Louis Theroux documentary

405 replies

Ninerina · 30/04/2025 15:06

I knew that things were bad for the Palestinians but after watching the documentary I'm so disgusted by the 'settlers' the government of Israel and especially Daniella Weiss.
Palestinians are referred to as savages and camel riders by a rabbi!
Will we get a chorus of how Louis Theroux is anti- semitic now? The usual battle cry of the Israel supporters

OP posts:
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12
dairydebris · 03/05/2025 10:17

Twiglets1 · 03/05/2025 10:14

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

More hatred of Israel than support for civilians in Gaza.

And furthermore, I'm puzzled why we don't see endless calls for Hamas to step down and surrender on here.

There's 2 ways the Gaza war could be stopped, but I only ever see calls for Israel to ceasefire. Never for Hamas to just fuck off forever.

It's always Israel.

Martymcfly24 · 03/05/2025 10:18

dairydebris · 03/05/2025 10:06

I'm puzzled because I've yet to see the same few names on here repeatedly questioning why Hamas didn't make shelters for their civilians, stockpile for their civilians, have anything in place for the destruction they knew would come about as a result of 7 October.

I'm not saying Israel are without fault in this situation, especially in the West Bank I personally think they're in danger of losing the dwindling amount of moral high ground they have left.

But it's the same few names on here constantly blaming Israel for the terrible situation in Gaza. Failing to hold terrorists to account for the consequences of their actions is almost tantamount to support.

Should Israel allow aid into Gaza? I think probably yes. But I'm not privy to all the intelligence miliary planners are, and also none of my relatives were murdered on 7/10, so what use is my opinion? However, it seems on here that people believe it's Israel's fault Gaza needs aid. It's not. Gaza didn't require food trucks on 6 October.

A lot of what I read on here seems more like hatred of Israel than support for civilians in Gaza.

80% of Palestinians in Gaza were reliant on International Aid before October 7th. It' has an unemployment rate of 45%.

This was mainly due to the economic policies of de development by the Israeli government which hampered business and economic growth .

There was very little to stockpile by a government that was never concerned about the plight of its citizens. (And I mean Hamas in this circumstance)

dairydebris · 03/05/2025 10:20

Martymcfly24 · 03/05/2025 10:18

80% of Palestinians in Gaza were reliant on International Aid before October 7th. It' has an unemployment rate of 45%.

This was mainly due to the economic policies of de development by the Israeli government which hampered business and economic growth .

There was very little to stockpile by a government that was never concerned about the plight of its citizens. (And I mean Hamas in this circumstance)

So Hamas made a dire situation... even more dire?

PollyPaintsFlowers · 03/05/2025 10:22

Martymcfly24 · 03/05/2025 10:07

It's the Fourth Geneva Convention from 1949. Israel signed it in 1951.

Thank you

I found this on the UK Parliament website. I guess it will come down to whether Israel can show that it targets military combatants, which seems to be the case according to press releases etc. Certainly Israel have been releasing details of military leaders they have eliminated. It's muddied by there not being traditional military infrastructure like barracks etc and that the mitary is so heavily embedded amongst the civilian population. Hamas of course doesn't differentiate between military and civilians in its casualty figures

Limits to the Fourth Geneva Convention

The coverage of the Geneva Convention and the two Additional Protocols of 1977 is extensive. However, there are limits to the extent to which they enable the protection of civilians in conflict. Some of these limits are by design, in that the Convention is written to be pragmatic – and as such recognises that at a time of war, civilians are likely to be harmed. As Jamie A Williamson, the Head of Unit of the International Committee of the Red Cross Unit on Relations with Arms Carriers and Security Forces, explains:
… under the Convention, a certain level of harm to civilians can be deemed acceptable as long as the belligerents have fully complied with the three key principles regulating the conduct of hostilities, namely ‘distinction’, ‘proportionality’, and ‘precaution’, before and during an attack.
While a civilian is not to be directly targeted, as long as an attack is not deemed indiscriminate, incidental harm to civilians (‘collateral damage’) is acceptable if it is not excessive in relation to the anticipated concrete and direct military advantage. Similarly, a building which appears to the general observer to be a civilian object may be a legitimate military target if it, by its ‘nature, location, purpose or use makes an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage’.
As such, even if commanders cause civilian casualties during an attack, they will not necessarily be liable for any wrongdoing under IHL if they can show that they took all feasible precautions in the planning and launching of the attack, and exercised constant care to spare the civilian population throughout the hostilities.
Williamson concludes that ‘while IHL provides a solid and extensive legal framework for protecting civilians in conflict, the protection it affords is inherently qualified’.

Martymcfly24 · 03/05/2025 10:24

Twiglets1 · 03/05/2025 10:16

But why is Israel more responsible than for the safety and wellbeing of Palestinians in Gaza than their own government?

That is the question @dairydebris asked which no one has answered yet.

Yes Hamas have more responsibility than Israel to their citizens but it does not absolve Israel from their responsibility under International Law which they are currently breaking.

Israel are currently preventing Hamas from carrying out their responsibility by preventing Humanitarian Aid from entering the country.

Twiglets1 · 03/05/2025 10:24

Martymcfly24 · 03/05/2025 10:18

80% of Palestinians in Gaza were reliant on International Aid before October 7th. It' has an unemployment rate of 45%.

This was mainly due to the economic policies of de development by the Israeli government which hampered business and economic growth .

There was very little to stockpile by a government that was never concerned about the plight of its citizens. (And I mean Hamas in this circumstance)

But that extraordinary high percentage of people wouldn't have remained reliant on International Aid would it, if Hamas had actually used the money for the intended purpose over the years rather than diverting it into weapons and building tunnels?

PollyPaintsFlowers · 03/05/2025 10:27

Martymcfly24 · 03/05/2025 10:24

Yes Hamas have more responsibility than Israel to their citizens but it does not absolve Israel from their responsibility under International Law which they are currently breaking.

Israel are currently preventing Hamas from carrying out their responsibility by preventing Humanitarian Aid from entering the country.

Except Hamas is stealing and stockpiling the aid and killing any Palestinians that try to stop them

Martymcfly24 · 03/05/2025 10:28

Twiglets1 · 03/05/2025 10:24

But that extraordinary high percentage of people wouldn't have remained reliant on International Aid would it, if Hamas had actually used the money for the intended purpose over the years rather than diverting it into weapons and building tunnels?

Absolutely and @Twiglets1 you know I will never post here to defend Hamas. But I don't think it is the only reason. Combined with the economic policies of the Israeli government and the ways they have prevented businesses and entrepreneurship which generated wealth the situation has been created plus a high birth rate which also leads families into poverty.

Twiglets1 · 03/05/2025 10:33

Martymcfly24 · 03/05/2025 10:24

Yes Hamas have more responsibility than Israel to their citizens but it does not absolve Israel from their responsibility under International Law which they are currently breaking.

Israel are currently preventing Hamas from carrying out their responsibility by preventing Humanitarian Aid from entering the country.

I agree with you that Israel should have been allowing humanitarian aid into Gaza. I believe they are belatedly looking at ways to reinstate it that ensure Hamas can't get their hands on it. That is the challenge for them.

But it's still surprising to us that so many on here seem more fixated on the damage that Israel are doing to Palestinian civilians than the damage Hamas have inflicted and are still inflicting.

So much anger towards the Israel government and IDF. So little anger expressed towards Hamas.

Martymcfly24 · 03/05/2025 10:34

PollyPaintsFlowers · 03/05/2025 10:27

Except Hamas is stealing and stockpiling the aid and killing any Palestinians that try to stop them

So what is the answer to prevent this .

Allow Aid agencies in to distribute food and medical supplies directly to the population. Allow guaranteed protection from harm by the IDF and Hamas for those Aid workers and cut Hamas out of the equation.

Otherwise civilians are being starved for the actions of a terrorist group which would be considered collective punishment.

dairydebris · 03/05/2025 10:36

Twiglets1 · 03/05/2025 10:33

I agree with you that Israel should have been allowing humanitarian aid into Gaza. I believe they are belatedly looking at ways to reinstate it that ensure Hamas can't get their hands on it. That is the challenge for them.

But it's still surprising to us that so many on here seem more fixated on the damage that Israel are doing to Palestinian civilians than the damage Hamas have inflicted and are still inflicting.

So much anger towards the Israel government and IDF. So little anger expressed towards Hamas.

Yes. Exactly this.

Twiglets1 · 03/05/2025 10:38

Martymcfly24 · 03/05/2025 10:28

Absolutely and @Twiglets1 you know I will never post here to defend Hamas. But I don't think it is the only reason. Combined with the economic policies of the Israeli government and the ways they have prevented businesses and entrepreneurship which generated wealth the situation has been created plus a high birth rate which also leads families into poverty.

I do know you never defend Hamas.

Hamas diverting most of the international aid into their own pockets may not be the only reason for the inability of the Palestinian people to be less reliant on aid to survive but it is one huge reason. The main reason in my opinion but I acknowledge that's just my opinion.

dairydebris · 03/05/2025 10:39

Martymcfly24 · 03/05/2025 10:28

Absolutely and @Twiglets1 you know I will never post here to defend Hamas. But I don't think it is the only reason. Combined with the economic policies of the Israeli government and the ways they have prevented businesses and entrepreneurship which generated wealth the situation has been created plus a high birth rate which also leads families into poverty.

I think Hamas have repeatly put their urge to kill Jews before the best interests of their own people. None of their policies have been geared towards creating wealth, a future, or even an actual nation state for their own. It's always been about killing Jews ( otherwise known as erasing the zionist entity ). And currently Israel gives not a shit about Palestinian civilians either.

Gazans are in hell. But the first responsibility for that lies with its own government.

Twiglets1 · 03/05/2025 10:40

IDF planning major shift in Gaza aid delivery in bid to thwart Hamas diversion

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-planning-major-shift-in-gaza-aid-delivery-in-bid-to-thwart-hamas-diversion/

Twiglets1 · 03/05/2025 10:44

From the linked article:

Israel is planning to radically alter the way humanitarian aid is distributed in the Gaza Strip when it begins allowing assistance into the enclave in the coming weeks after what will have been a nearly two-and-a-half-month freeze, an Israeli and Arab official familiar with the matter told The Times of Israel this week.

The plan is to transition away from wholesale distribution and warehousing of aid and to instead have international organizations and private security contractors hand out boxes of food to individual Gazan families, according to the officials.

Each family will have a designated representative tasked with reaching an Israel Defense Forces security zone in southern Gaza, where aid will be distributed after going through several rounds of inspection. Each box will have enough food to last several days until family representatives will be allowed to return to the security zone to receive another parcel, the officials said, adding that Israel believes this method will make it harder for Hamas to divert aid to its fighters.

www.timesofisrael.com/idf-planning-major-shift-in-gaza-aid-delivery-in-bid-to-thwart-hamas-diversion/

PollyPaintsFlowers · 03/05/2025 10:47

Martymcfly24 · 03/05/2025 10:34

So what is the answer to prevent this .

Allow Aid agencies in to distribute food and medical supplies directly to the population. Allow guaranteed protection from harm by the IDF and Hamas for those Aid workers and cut Hamas out of the equation.

Otherwise civilians are being starved for the actions of a terrorist group which would be considered collective punishment.

This is what happened before. Hamas and local gangs were stealing from the aid trucks so the IDF then protected the aid convoys. But then Hamas knew where they'd be and would fire mortars at them and civilians were caught in the middle

Martymcfly24 · 03/05/2025 10:47

Sounds very positive, hopefully if this works it will alleviate the immediate hunger.

And hopefully the same principal will apply to medical supplies as well.

Sorry that reply was to @Twiglets1

PollyPaintsFlowers · 03/05/2025 10:48

That's excellent news @Twiglets1
So much better than before

Twiglets1 · 03/05/2025 10:48

Martymcfly24 · 03/05/2025 10:47

Sounds very positive, hopefully if this works it will alleviate the immediate hunger.

And hopefully the same principal will apply to medical supplies as well.

Sorry that reply was to @Twiglets1

Edited

Yes hopefully

LudvillasCave · 03/05/2025 11:50

dairydebris · 03/05/2025 10:17

And furthermore, I'm puzzled why we don't see endless calls for Hamas to step down and surrender on here.

There's 2 ways the Gaza war could be stopped, but I only ever see calls for Israel to ceasefire. Never for Hamas to just fuck off forever.

It's always Israel.

Who would these calls be directed at?!

quantumbutterfly · 03/05/2025 11:59

LudvillasCave · 03/05/2025 11:50

Who would these calls be directed at?!

Public opinion? Unless of course they actually support what hamas is doing.

LudvillasCave · 03/05/2025 12:06

quantumbutterfly · 03/05/2025 11:59

Public opinion? Unless of course they actually support what hamas is doing.

I don’t understand what you mean? Calls for Hamas to fuck off would be directed towards public opinion?

Martymcfly24 · 03/05/2025 12:09

quantumbutterfly · 03/05/2025 11:59

Public opinion? Unless of course they actually support what hamas is doing.

You can think Hamas are terrible and should step down but also that the Israeli government has behaved in an awful cruel and illegal way also.

quantumbutterfly · 03/05/2025 12:11

Martymcfly24 · 03/05/2025 12:09

You can think Hamas are terrible and should step down but also that the Israeli government has behaved in an awful cruel and illegal way also.

You can, and you can be equally vociferous on both counts of course.

dairydebris · 03/05/2025 12:18

Martymcfly24 · 03/05/2025 12:09

You can think Hamas are terrible and should step down but also that the Israeli government has behaved in an awful cruel and illegal way also.

True. And that's quite similar to my position.

I'm just curious as to why there's hardly anyone calling for Hamas to surrender fully, put down their rockets and give someone else a crack at running Gaza... but lots of people regularly calling for Israel to ceasefire.

Personally I believe it'd be better for Hamas to give back the hostages, surrender arms, and set a date for new elections in which they will not be running.

Then let's see if Israel ceases fire.

But as always on here it seems the onus is on Israel to back down first. I don't get it.

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