This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 6)

[Eyesopenwideawake]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/apr/08/idf-has-long-history-of-denying-involvement-in-civilian-killings

The utterly heartbreaking thing about starting these threads is how simple it is to find the opening link.

When will they stop?

It should be an easy thing for us all to say any extremism is wrong.

Yes exactly. It's one of the reasons I feel so sorry for Palestinians. They grow up in a culture where they glorify death, even that of their own children. They have a government that has openly said they use them as human shields and martyrs for their cause. A government that had brought death and destruction down on them and 'allies' in the West who just gloss over it all because they're so obsessed with only one side. I think their allies have gone so far down the rabbit hole of anti-Israel obsession they've lost some sense of rationality.

I agree it all seems very hopeless for them.

Their troubles will not end with the end of the war, in all likelihood.

I've not demanded anything. I'm just surprised you think only one form of extremism is wrong. If you think all forms of extremism are wrong why all the dodging and deflecting? Why the obsessive blaming Jews for everything?

And it would be less of an 'open air prison' if as soon as Jews left Gaza Hamas didn't immediately start importing weapons. And there were never checkpoints in the West Bank, indeed you could drive non-stop between Gaza and the West Bank as many times as you liked, until Palestinians started the second Intifada and blew up packed restaurants and rush hour buses with grenades and suicide bombers. Palestinians had a choice, now they're in a mess of their own making.

Israel is the only country I know of who has plenty of public bomb shelters in towns and cities, and safe rooms in homes as standard. All because of Palestinian terrorism.

I'm sure there's some who'd love nothing more than for Israelis to stop protecting themselves. But it's not going to happen.

What is Ben-Gvir doing that is stopping Hamas just putting the hostages in a car and dropping them off at the Gaza-Israel border?

We're just entering the utterly bizarre now. £101million of British tax payer money is going to the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank in order to teach them how to raise and manage money. The minister says it 'might feel like high ambition work. We need to accept that' 😵‍💫

And what does that even mean? £101million in order to learn how to raise and manage money is insane.

Video of UK minister on X

Any car driving towards the border will be incinerated by IDF shooting a hellfire missile from a drone in minutes.

Don’t you comprehend that a ceasefire is needed in order to safely transport the hostages?

I see the testimony of Eli Sharabi on that twiX feed you linked. 😞

You seem to be missing the point. Hamas can release the hostages any time they like. They can tell their negotiators to get a message to the Israeli side and let them know when and where the hostages will be returned. Stop infantilising Palestinians, you're not helping them.

The second intifada (Sep 00-05) was a direct response to Israel breaking the terms of the Oslo Accords in two major ways. In the accords in 1993 Israel promised a stop to illegal settlement of the West Bank - instead Israel TRIPLED illegal settlements in the West Bank from 1993-2000.

The PLO recognised Israel as a state and affirmed its right to exist. In 1999, despite what it had agreed to in the Oslo accords, Israel refused to recognise a Palestinian state even though all the conditions for statehood had been fully met by the Palestinians (PLO).

Israel also renenged on the Oslo accords in 1994 by beginning construction of the West Bank separation wall and the bypass roads that no Palestinian was allowed to drive on. It wasn’t the building of a border wall itself so much as the decision to build it not along the agreed borders so that Palestinian land was being de facto annexed into Israel. Wherever the segments of the wall was being built, it included built in checkpoints. This was in addition to flying checkpoints.

After the second intifada started, it was then said the West Bank wall was built in response to it, but that is a bit of history revision as construction started in 1994 after the idea had been proposed in 1992 by PM Yitzhak Rabin who said that Israel must "take Gaza out of Tel Aviv"

In addition no Palestinian could drive back and forth from West Bank to Gaza or into Israel as many times as they wanted as from 1991 exit and entry permits were required.

You asked what is stopping Hamas from putting the hostages in a car and driving to the Gaza border. I answered your question. They need a ceasefire to do it safely. They’ve sent numerous messages via the negotiators offering all the hostages in return for a ceasefire (not a temporary pause). For whatever reason no one can agree sustainably and there is currently no ceasefire in place.

You are also ignoring the fact that even when NGOs tell the Israelis where they are going and when and have IDF clearance to drive there in clearly marked vehicles, they still tend to be fired on with missiles and killed. It’s not as simple as just pass a message on and drive there.

What does it mean? Management of funding in an area where terrorist gangs operate mean you need to put into place very strict expensive checks to ensure funds don’t end up in the hands of or benefiting these same terrorist gangs. There is also the matter of not only doing the checks but keeping the records that prove where every penny went for auditing purposes.

I don’t see anything bizarre in the UK helping the PA ensure all humanitarian funds continue to not fund or benefit terrorists directly or indirectly.

( the PA has passed all prior independent audits of funds, proving none have funded terrorism to date. Unfortunately, since the war started Israel has been defunding the PA by keeping the share of taxes collected by Israel from Palestinians that should go to the PA. This defunding, makes the PA vulnerable and in need of financial assistance not only to keep public services going for Palestinians, but to ensure that none of the money ends up funding terrorism)

All extremism is wrong. There is plenty of extremism on show in Israel and the OPT as well as the rest of the world.

All extremism is wrong.

Is a complete sentence as far as I'm concerned. It doesn't need to be followed by which side of this war we believe is worst or else we start going round in circles again.

agreed

This is exactly the point I was trying to make above although probably not as clear as you have said it.

As Hamas begins again executing Palestinians in Gaza for protesting — nine killed, others kidnapped and disappeared — the Western pro-Palestine movement remains deafeningly silent. You chant "Free Palestine" while ignoring Palestinians who demand freedom from a regime that tortures and kills them. You cry out against bombs, but say nothing about bullets fired into the heads of unarmed protesters by Hamas. This is not solidarity — it’s moral bankruptcy. If you can't condemn the fascists ruling us, then you're not standing with us — you're standing on top of us, speaking over our dead.

If you truly stand with Gaza, then act like it. Protest not only for the end of war, but for the end of tyranny. Raise your voice for the Gazans being executed, kidnapped, tortured, and silenced by Hamas. And if you mean what you say about liberation, then demand what Gaza needs most: Hamas’s surrender and disarmament. Your silence helps them kill. Your voice can help stop it.

Hamza Howidy. A non-extremist, anti-Hamas Palestinian

@PollyPaintsFlowers who wrote
"Hamas deliberately started a war they couldn't win."

So you think that Hamas attacked in October knowing what the Israeli response would be? If Hamas deliberately started it to achieve the devastation of Gaza it surely follows, that Hamas should be pleased that everything is going "to plan" and that Israel has fallen into their "trap."

You really believe that ?

Hamas believed that Hezbollah, Palestinians in Jordan, Arabs inside Israel and possibly Syria would also join in with the assault. They didn't, only Hezbollah. Hamas officials posted on social media their disappointment, and pro-Hamas Muslims around the world expressed anger on X and in Telegram channels at what they saw as the failure and cowardice of Muslims in that region in not joining in and rising up. This was all shared and played out on social media at the time.

There's a NATO report that I can link you to with quotes from the Hamas leadership after the 2014 war where they said that civilians are used as human shields and martyrs for the cause and that they will fight till the last Palestinian is dead. The resulting war which inevitably caused civilian casualties as all war does feeds in to the propaganda war that their leaders have spoken about on Arabic tv. You can see the videos on Memri.

Hamas leaders and supporters revelled in the bad press Israel got after the war started and claimed repeatedly they were winning. So in their minds the destruction was worth it. Because their sole intent was to diminish and hopefully destroy Israel, or the 'Zionist entity' as they call it. Though what alternative was there, Hamas said they would commit further 7/10s, Israel has to protect it's people. Whether they've gone too far is another matter.

Negotiations stalled with Hamas demanding unreasonable requests like Israel paying to rebuild Gaza. Until Trump said Gaza would be cleared out and then Egypt and other ME countries came up with a day after plan to avoid Trump and Netanyahu following through with clearing out Gaza.

But that deal doesn't involve Hamas staying in power. That was never Hamas' plan, they always intended to stay in power. Now they've changed tact and said they want to evolve into a purely political party in the hope of being able to stay..

So they won, in that they've weakened Israel's standing internationally, it's not crumbled as they'd hoped, but they've lost in that Egypt wants them out, their people are rising up against them, the Palestinian Authority has called them sons of bitches and told them to get the hell out of Gaza, and the West appears to be strengthening their arch enemy the Palestinian Authority possibly with the view of the PA replacing them

So for most countries massive death and destruction wouldn't look like winning, but for Hamas it does. Or it did, but now they're losing because they're losing control and power

To answer you aswell. How did Hamas think things would play out? That Israel would do nothing? Even after Hamas threatened to commit further massacres? If they didn't want a war why carry out such a horrific provocation?

Furthermore, it was said by plenty of warfare experts and analysts that Israel had fallen in to Hamas' trap. I agree. But I don't think Israel had a choice after what had happened and with the threat of it happening again

Hamas believed that Hezbollah, Palestinians in Jordan, Arabs inside Israel and possibly Syria would also join in with the assault. Quoth @PollyPaintsFlowers

No they didn't. Hamas kept it a secret from everyone, including the Iranians.

Weeks later when they were being pounded, they believed Hezbollah and others would come to their aid, but they were mistaken. It's likely Iran ensured that.

As for the rest of your post ? Well maybe some other time.

Yes exactly, they kept it a secret from everyone apart from Iran who funded them. But they thought it would be like lighting a touch paper and others would rise up. Why would Iran stop others rising up when they funded the attack?

Yes I'm sure. Complex answers require too much thought.

IDF Chief of Staff Eyal Zamir said the IDF is ready and prepared to strike a decisive blow against Hamas. "We will use all the power at our disposal, increase the pace and intensity of the operation. If required, we will do so soon, with determination in the righteousness of our path," he said.

I wonder what this means as I thought the IDF were already doing that.

Clearly they weren't.