‘South Africa accused of prior knowledge of Hamas attack’

[CrunchyKnees]

Very interesting.

Doesn’t seem to have been reported in the Western MSM yet.

https://www.iol.co.za/the-star/news/sa-accused-of-prior-knowledge-in-hamas-attack-d9786146-67b7-4997-9783-82d5a23372d2

Any thoughts?

The surveillance soldiers gave plenty of warning of suspicious activities by Hamas close to the border days before the attack which was all ignored. Didn't Egypt also warn Netanyahu just a few days before the attack which he also ignored?

Suspicious activities close to the border is not the same as Israel knowing that a massacre was about to happen.

I find that suggestion offensive and I’m not even Jewish.

From the cnn link I posted above

”Israel’s Shin Bet security agency has said it “failed in its mission” to prevent Hamas’ October 7 attack by ignoring repeated warning signs.
Shin Bet’s chief, Ronen Bar, said in a statement that if Shin Bet had “acted differently in the years leading up to the attack and on the night of the attack (…) the massacre would have been prevented.”

he security agency received a sequence of signs that Hamas was preparing for an emergency, but decided the militant group were “not interested in escalation” and the plans were never perceived as an active threat, Shin Bet said.

From the other cnn link I’ve posted in this thread

But a report from the New York Times claimed Israel obtained Hamas’ plan for the attack more than a year in advance.

That link only shows that mistakes were made not that Israel government knew a massacre was about to happen and chose to ignore it.

Offended by what exactly?

I continue with a copy of what cnn says beses on nyt

The report says Israeli officials dismissed the plan as aspirational, and deemed it too complex for the group to carry out. Other outlets, including Israeli newspaper Haaretz, have also reported the claim

Does anyone have a reputable link of what the OP has posted? I have looked everywhere and can't find anything, not even on Israeli news sites.

Offensive to suggest that the Israeli government would deliberately allow their own civilian population to be murdered by terrorists. That’s a horrible cynical accusation and just seems to be a wild attempt to make Israel “guilty” of being attacked.

Exactly - Israeli officials according to your link didn’t think Hamas capable of carrying out a massacre. So how exactly does that prove Israel knew a massacre was about to happen?

what would have changed if SA had told Israel there is a terrorist attack quite likely going to happen if Israel knew already and they had dismiss it because they thought it wouldn’t happen.

It's a proxy war. They are funded and armed by Iran. They are paid soldiers, if you like. What those young men and their older leaders get is a wage, and funding to cause trouble for Israel.

That might not be the whole story, but I'd bet it's a big part, going on something similar that happened in Afghanistan with Iraq and the Taliban.

I dont know. Maybe Israel would have taken the threat more seriously if SA had warned them. Maybe they wouldnt. But the point is that SA didn't warn them, which according to you doesn't matter.

It's incredible how so many people on mumsnet think they know how intelligence agencies operate. I didn't realise so many mumsnet members were that plugged into SIS/CIA/Mossad/DGSE.

Learn something new every day...

They knew. But they were just too fucking arrogant to care. Politicians and top brass never care about the ones they are supposed to protect. It's the same in every single country. Male pride and arrogance has a lot to answer for.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html

I don’t know anything about what SA knew or thought they knew or didn’t know.

I don’t want to subscribe to the New York Times. Please copy & paste the article if you want us to read it.

Me neither.
what I know is that USA / Israel / Egypt knew there quite a likelihood of a terrorist attack but this was dismissed. So I don’t think another country / not knowing would have prevented 7 oct.

Wtf are you on about? Where did I say anything that you accuse me of saying? Perhaps go read my post again.

I'm not a subscriber either and I could read it just fine. Check your browser settings. But the majority of the article states that Israel knew at least a year before it happened and didn't care enough. Other countries warned and they still didn't care enough. This is down to Israel's top brass and politicians only.

From the article

Israeli officials obtained Hamas’s battle plan for the Oct. 7 terrorist attack more than a year before it happened, documents, emails and interviews show. But Israeli military and intelligence officials dismissed the plan as aspirational, considering it too difficult for Hamas to carry out.
The approximately 40-page document, which the Israeli authorities code-named “Jericho Wall,” outlined, point by point, exactly the kind of devastating invasion that led to the deaths of about 1,200 people.
The translated document, which was reviewed by The New York Times, did not set a date for the attack, but described a methodical assault designed to overwhelm the fortifications around the Gaza Strip, take over Israeli cities and storm key military bases, including a division headquarters.
Hamas followed the blueprint with shocking precision. The document called for a barrage of rockets at the outset of the attack, drones to knock out the security cameras and automated machine guns along the border, and gunmen to pour into Israel en masse in paragliders, on motorcycles and on foot — all of which happened on Oct. 7.

So Israeli officials had their hands on the fourty page document which outlined Hamas's step by step plan of the Oct 7th attack but let's blame South Africa instead even though there is no credible evidence or source to blame them.

I’m not accusing you of anything.

I said I find the suggestion that Israel knew the massacre was going to happen and did nothing offensive.

As the article apparently explains @Arayofcalm Israeli government officials & military dismissed the plan as they didn’t think Hamas had the capability to carry it through.

Mistakes were clearly made & they under estimated what Hamas were capable of. But that’s not at all the same thing as them knowing a massacre was about to happen. Quite the reverse - they didn’t think it could happen.

So what information did south Africa have that Israel didn't. Do you have any credible links? Genuine question as i tried to look online but couldn't see anything.