Hamas ‘quietly drops’ thousands of deaths from casualty figures

[Twiglets1]

Article in the Telegraph (unfortunately behind a paywall).

New research shows that Hamas has quietly dropped thousands of deaths from its Gaza war casualty figures.
Salo Aizenberg, from the US-based non-profit organisation Honest Reporting, said that Hamas’s March 2025 casualty update had removed thousands of people it previously listed as having been killed last year.
“Hamas’s new March 2025 fatality list quietly drops 3,400 fully “identified” deaths listed in its August and October 2024 reports – including 1,080 children. These “deaths” never happened. The numbers were falsified – again,” Mr Aizenberg wrote.

The casualty lists are released as PDFs by the Hamas-run Gaza ministry of health, which has been cited by international media as a source for fatality figures in the enclave since the start of the war.
A report by the Henry Jackson Society in December said that the number of civilians killed in the Gaza conflict had probably been inflated by Hamas in order to portray Israel as deliberately targeting innocent people.

Andrew Fox, the author of the report, said the latest deletions are likely to have been an attempt by Hamas to retain credibility.
“We knew there were rafts of errors in their reporting,” Mr Fox said. “There’s a reasonable explanation in that their computer systems went down in November 2023, so it’s been challenging for them to report accurately, but the lists are so unreliable that the world’s media shouldn’t be quoting them as reliable.”
He added: “The UN also just takes Hamas’s figures and publishes them with a note stating the figures are unconfirmed.”
The Hamas lists contain information such as names and ID numbers, and can be filled in by anyone with a link to the Google form for the document.
Hamas will “have gone through the list, trying to make it as convincing as possible. They’ve been accepting names onto that list with no evidence whatsoever”, explained Mr Fox. “So what I’m guessing they’re trying to do is thin out the names they cannot substantiate at all.”

Mr Fox, a former British paratrooper who has worked with Mr Aizenberg on previous research, said the teams use the publicly available Hamas data and cross-check it name by name.
“Salo’s research would be looking for names that were on previous lists but have now disappeared,” Mr Fox explained. “Hamas releases lists as PDFs, so it’s harder to do comparisons but we transfer names to an Excel sheet to do a mass comparison this way.”

About 72% of fatalities aged 13-55 are men, which is the rough age range of Hamas combatants, Mr Fox said. “We know that Hamas uses child soldiers, and these statistics show clearly that Israel is targeting fighting-aged men.”
In previous conflicts, Hamas figures have often been corroborated by external organisations, Mr Fox said.
The Henry Jackson Society’s December report said: “The ministry of health, operating under Hamas, has systematically inflated the death toll by failing to distinguish between civilian and combatant deaths, over-reporting fatalities among women and children and even including individuals who died before the conflict began.
“This has led to a narrative where the Israel Defense Forces are portrayed as disproportionately targeting civilians, while the actual numbers suggest a significant proportion of the dead are combatants.”

www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/04/01/hamas-drops-thousands-of-deaths-from-casualty-figurures/

Agreed. It’s one thing to criticise the Israel government & they have certainly done things that many of us have legitimate concerns about. However, that is no excuse for antisemitism.

Here you go;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HonestReporting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Jackson_Society

But no-one criticized (quite rightly) Israel’s initial incorrect estimates of deaths on 7/10. Any errors were seen as an inevitable result of chaos and confusion and quibbling about numbers would have been dehumanizing, disrespectful and minimizing. Why is it different for Palestinians? Estimating mortality in conflict is a highly complex demographic analysis- there is usually a mix of under-reporting of deaths that are never recorded and over-reporting with some people being included twice from different sources. Getting a full estimate requires meticulously triangulating multiple records (which Fox certainly hasn’t done). Until that happens (if it ever does) we work with estimates from imperfect sources and all numbers are taken with a pinch of salt regardless of how trustworthy or otherwise those in charge of the estimates are.
This arguing detracts from the fact that a huge number of Palestinians have died, including many, many women and children, and will continue to die both from violence and the aid blockade, which Israel is responsible for.

You don’t have to believe Hamas to be entirely completely totally confident that many thousands of women and children have been murdered by the Israeli army, as well as peacekeepers. It’s factually reported by eye witnesses, it’s filmed and on the news. I expect most of us here in the west think Hamas is evil and must be got rid of, but what the Israeli army is doing is horror on a scale not seen for decades.

Yes I don’t trust Hamas at all but you would have to be blind to not see that Gaza has been flattened. It is clear as day that thousands of children and other civilians have died and many more are suffering. It’s horrific.

In hindsight, and as much as I criticised it at the time, the Biden administration was at least making some of the right noises about the Israeli government’s actions. They are now emboldened by Trump. They aren’t even pretending to be abiding by international laws anymore.

The source I quoted from is irrelevant. Hamas themselves have admitted their numbers were wrong by thousands & adjusted them downwards. What does it matter if it is reported by the Telegraph (as I linked to) or another source? Unless you would prefer some facts to be buried by the media just because they put into doubt the narrative of Israel deliberately targeting women and young children.

Of course it’s horrific that thousands have been killed by the IDF and Gaza flattened - no one is disputing that on this thread. But if there has been over reporting of deaths of women & children by Hamas that is information that is important to acknowledge. I don’t know why so many people on these threads rush to defend Hamas at every opportunity. Think about who you are defending- it is Hamas not Palestinian civilians.

@Sleepinggreyhounds if you think that arguing about numbers detracts from the fact that a huge number of Palestinians have been killed then don’t join in this conversation. You are adding to the distraction, according to your logic.

I don’t think that talking about numbers detracts from all the bloodshed. I think numbers are important and that even in the chaos of warfare it’s important to try to understand the data. There have been claims on these threads that a majority of those being targeted by the IDF are women & children. Yet Hamas’s own data now reveals that 72% of those being killed are in fact males aged 13-55 (& they do use child soldiers).

Being accurate about the numbers and demographics of Palestinians being killed in no way detracts from the fact that thousands of innocent people have suffered or are suffering. It’s an emotional subject but facts need to be reported.

@Twiglets1 i chose to get involved with a discussion on measurement as it’s something I know about professionally and find it frustrating that there are expectations of accuracy when that isn’t feasible whoever the source are. And to remind those posting these numbers are people. I don’t think I’m adding to the distraction.

Why are 13 to 18 year olds described as “men”, they are children surely? Changing the definition of a child to massage figures quite so blatantly is uncalled for.

And Israel and it's people are the devil incarnate to some.... As proven by the hundreds of marches in London since 7/10. The first being on 8/10...

Why does it have to one way or the other. Can we not say that Hamas is an evil terrorist organisation who clearly state they want to rid the earth of Jews. And treat their own people shamefully,

And also say that in a war against an agressor bent on their destruction, Israel get things wrong,and innocent people get hurt, and awful side effect of war.

Millions of innocent people died in WW2, shall we suggest that negated the need for the Nazis to be stopped?

No one needs reminding that these numbers represent real people.

But if you are choosing to engage in a discussion about the numbers, how can you say "this arguing detracts from the fact that a huge number of Palestinians have died" - if you don't think we should be discussing numbers, don't engage.

I think in certain circles there is a need to remind people that the numbers are real people - Palestinians are regularly dehumanized as “collateral damage”. Imagine the fallout if people had argued over the number of deaths on 7/ 10 before it was clarified.

@TomeTome What Mr Fox from the article said was "About 72% of fatalities aged 13-55 are men, which is the rough age range of Hamas combatants" and “We know that Hamas uses child soldiers, and these statistics show clearly that Israel is targeting fighting-aged men.”

Hamas should not be using child soldiers in a war.

Though I do agree with you that under18 year olds should not be described as men.

You have a very short memory.

Did anyone sane ever take those numbers seriously?

Most people I know met the numbers from Hamas with eye rolls.

In my home country there was a terrible natural disaster, it took months to identify and count the dead, and some were never accounted for.

Hamas can tell you the names and date of birth of thousands of murdered children...within a few hours. It was such obvious bullshit.

Some people did deny or minimise the Hamas attack on Israel on 7/10 and made ridiculous claims such as that the IDF staged the attacks themselves to justify an invasion of the Gaza strip.

Very much worse I hope you agree than media outlets reporting on a factual thing like Hamas changing their own death figures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial_of_the_7_October_Hamas-led_attack_on_Israel

@Twiglets1 Yes some did - but quite rightly the backlash was massive.

I for one am shocked that a terrorist organisation whose stated aim is to kill every Jew they see and murdered babies with their bare hands turn out to have been inflating numbers to make Israel look bad. Shocked I tell ya.

There are no men under the age of 18 so there is little point in trying to quibble about the percentages when you are unable to even identify the group you are describing accurately. Children who hold guns or bombs or stones are not men.

Is this individual saying that 28% of fatalities in the age group 13-57 are women and children aged 13-18? Nearly a third of that group?

Frankly I don’t think anyone needs to help Israel “look bad” at this point. If they want accurate reporting then they need to be a bit more transparent, though I’m not sure that will help their cause.

Nope Isreal and the IDF are the problem - they created Hamas by constantly breaking ceasfires and all international rules the isreali government and the british/us governments should all the in the hague

When you put it like that … yes it’s not surprising.

Isntreal? You really need a spell checker.

I disagree that the IDF & Israeli government are the problem. I do agree that they are part of the problem. But not as big a problem (in my opinion) as the terrorist organisation that is Hamas ruling Gaza.

This thread is not about the historical reasons for Hamas existing.