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Conflict in the Middle East

Hamas and Gazans revolting

238 replies

mids2019 · 26/03/2025 23:14

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g71lk09npo

I think it's a real positive that brave Gazans are now protesting against Hamas openly demonstrating at least some of the population can see it is Hamas that has brought death and destruction to the enclave.

The irony is that war trodden Gazans are protesting in harsh conditions possibly risking death against Hamas while in your average 'Pro Palestine' March in London there are very limited signs with Hamas out. Should we start anti Hamas protests in the UK in solidarity with Gaza?

Wide angle photograph of hundreds of people walking through a street in Beit Lahia, northern Gaza as part of an anti-Hamas protest

Hundreds join largest anti-Hamas protest since Gaza war began

Masked Hamas militants dispersed protesters who gathered in northern Gaza to rally against the group.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g71lk09npo

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
ScrollingLeaves · 27/03/2025 15:33

Madcatdudette · 27/03/2025 15:23

I don’t think anyone assumes those men are terrorists.
The terrorists are the government, not general population.

I meant that the official Israeli assumption/assertion has been that any detained or shot Palestinian male was a terrorist including those formerly detained men who were released under the ceasefires some of whom were definitely terrorists but by no means all.

ScrollingLeaves · 27/03/2025 15:37

From Haaretz
This OPINION is worth reading I think.

Will Human Rights Groups Join Gazans in Condemning Hamas?
This is a moment of truth. Every human rights organization must speak out, clearly and unequivocally, in support of the protesters, against Hamas's repression, and against the Israeli government's dismissal of their voices

Amnesty International suspended its local Israeli chapter in January, in part because we made Hamas' crimes, against Israelis as well as Palestinians, salient. Before the suspension took place I, as the deputy director encountered a troubling pattern: a tendency by the movement to minimize and downplay legitimate and important criticism of Hamas. Now, as courageous Palestinians in Gaza rise up and protest against Hamas and the ongoing war, this moment is a moral reckoning for the human rights world.

Senior figures in Amnesty International's movement demanded that we remove a position paper published on rhetoric dehumanizing Israelis and glorifying Hamas used among certain progressive circles in the West, particularly in the United States. Members of Amnesty International hinted that condemning Hamas too much may bolster the Israeli narrative. A universal commitment to human rights means refusing to play the zero-sum game of political legitimation. After all, Amnesty's criticism of Israel could just as easily be seen as serving the Iranian narrative – a regime that is clearly oppressive – yet this has never been, and should never be a reason to avoid speaking out against Israel. But my words fell on deaf ears.

Some of us from the <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/PTRC3/www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-01-08/ty-article-magazine/.premium/absurd-and-tragic-israeli-chapter-responds-to-suspension-from-amnesty-international/00000194-465e-dff1-a7bc-dfff1e320000" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">suspended Israeli chapter of Amnesty have since launched the now-independent Pro-Human Campaign. This new initiative seeks to address the blind spots of much of the global human rights community, specifically in this regard.

Although we have spoken out forcefully against Israel's conduct, we were still branded as "hasbara," agents of Israeli propaganda, simply because we called out Hamas's atrocities against both Israelis and Palestinians, alongside Israel's human rights abuses.

Now, Palestinians in Gaza are calling for peace, and are rejecting Hamas' repressive rule. There are increasing reports that Hamas is violently suppressing these demonstrations.

These protesters, trapped between two oppressive regimes, have endured unimaginable suffering throughout the last year and a half of war, waged by Israel. Its campaign against Gaza has been marked by numerous actions that likely constitute severe war crimes.

And yet, these protesters understand Hamas's central role in their tragedy: that the October 7 massacre of Israeli civilians gave Israel the political license to unleash unrestrained violence; that Hamas's continued holding of hostages serves as a limitless pretext for Israel's ongoing military assault; that Hamas protected only its own members (in tunnels) from bombings, while leaving civilians exposed; and that, fundamentally, Hamas is a brutal, authoritarian regime that treats the civilian population as a means to its own ends – even if it costs them their lives.

These protests are not only courageous. They are deeply moving.
They represent the true victims of this war: alongside the Israeli hostages and the victims of the massacre, these are the civilians whose suffering has gone unheard.

They also directly challenge Israel's extremist government: any continued assault on civilians calling for peace will lay bare the fact that this is not about self-defense.

This is a moment of truth. Every human rights organization must speak out, clearly and unequivocally, in support of the protesters, against Hamas's repression, and against the Israeli government's disregard of their voices. This is a test of our shared humanity. To date, voices of support for the protesters are rare in the human rights field.

nd yet, these protesters understand Hamas's central role in their tragedy: that the October 7 massacre of Israeli civilians gave Israel the political license to unleash unrestrained violence; that Hamas's continued holding of hostages serves as a limitless pretext for Israel's ongoing military assault; that Hamas protected only its own members (in tunnels) from bombings, while leaving civilians exposed; and that, fundamentally, Hamas is a brutal, authoritarian regime that treats the civilian population as a means to its own ends – even if it costs them their lives.

These protests are not only courageous. They are deeply moving.
They represent the true victims of this war: alongside the Israeli hostages and the victims of the massacre, these are the civilians whose suffering has gone unheard.

They also directly challenge Israel's extremist government: any continued assault on civilians calling for peace will lay bare the fact that this is not about self-defense.

This is a moment of truth. Every human rights organization must speak out, clearly and unequivocally, in support of the protesters, against Hamas's repression, and against the Israeli government's disregard of their voices. This is a test of our shared humanity. To date, voices of support for the protesters are rare in the human rights field.

Emilyschinchilla · 27/03/2025 15:41

User37482 · 27/03/2025 15:25

It’s incredibly brave, I think a lot of Hamas’ crimes against Gazans themselves are overlooked in the west. I remember a few months ago a young anti-hamas activist had both his arms and legs broken. I don’t think you can be pro-Palestinian and pro-hamas, they have done nothing good for Palestinians.

He was later murdered by them, I believe.

Emilyschinchilla · 27/03/2025 15:55

Kendodd · 27/03/2025 08:09

Yes, I agree, Israel does try to limit civilian casualties, although with 50,000 dead, I'm not sure how hard. I'm not sure this is because they actually value Palestinian lives much though, I think it's more public image. Every dead Palestinian child is a propaganda win for Hamas, Israel know this.

I watched an interview with a former officer in the British army. He now goes into war zones to try to find out the reality of what is happening. He investigated the 50,000 casuality number, remembering this figure come from Hamas who rule Gaza. Firstly, he said these figures are comprised of all who have died since the war began. Not just those who died because of the war. A quarter of those 50,000 are people who would have died anyway even if there had been no war. Secondly those figures do not distinguish between Hamas fighters and civilians, they are all bundled in together. Thirdly, he uncovered evidence of Hamas manipulating the figures such as counting young adults as children. And so he went on.

Also urban warfare does have a high death count. Its unavoidable. But Israel has forewarned civilians to evacuate ( a courtesy Hamas did not extend on October 7th nor has it in subsequent terrorist attacks in Israel - yes they are still sending terrorists into Israel to murder civilians) - the huge number of Gazans we saw returning to Gaza in the recent ceasefire is testament to the success of this in saving civilian lives.

At the end of the day, wars end because one side is so comprehensively destroyed it realises it cannot continue. That means a lot of death. Though in this case, Hamas actually could have ended the war (that it never needed to start) by releasing the hostages and laying down arms.

I blame Hamas firmly for all the Israeli and Gazan suffering.

BeHere · 27/03/2025 16:09

What a superb piece @ScrollingLeaves. The point about Iran is especially salient.

LittleBigHead · 27/03/2025 16:31

Should we start anti Hamas protests in the UK in solidarity with Gaza?

And pigs might fly!

But it is good news that Gazans are starting to see who's fundamentally to blame for their current situation. What a pity they don't have the resources to look at the deep deep levels of corruption in Hamas (misuse of foreign aid, for one thing).

Gemini29 · 27/03/2025 16:40

How incredibly brave to protest like that. I hope there is no retaliation by Hamas although fear there might be

User37482 · 27/03/2025 18:15

Emilyschinchilla · 27/03/2025 15:41

He was later murdered by them, I believe.

Thats just awful, he was so brave, as are all those Palestinians out there on the streets and those who’ve had to flee Gaza because of Hamas.

I really do hope that one day there can be a state for Palestinians, governed by democracy and decency so people can live happy safe lives. Theres a special place in hell for Hamas there really is.

ImmediateReaction · 28/03/2025 08:37

Emilyschinchilla · 27/03/2025 06:13

This.

The entire rhetoric of the Western anti-Israel protestors is that Hamas have not brought death and destruction on their own people, but it is all entirely Israel’s fault, because Israel are evil.

They are blinded by their own racism.

The protests in Gaza are terribly inconvenient for them.

This.

True.

Well done to the brave people in Gaza standing up to the vile Hamas. They need support more than ever to finally get rid of the terrorists running Gaza. Good luck to them.

ImmediateReaction · 28/03/2025 08:39

LittleBigHead · 27/03/2025 16:31

Should we start anti Hamas protests in the UK in solidarity with Gaza?

And pigs might fly!

But it is good news that Gazans are starting to see who's fundamentally to blame for their current situation. What a pity they don't have the resources to look at the deep deep levels of corruption in Hamas (misuse of foreign aid, for one thing).

The government's holding money of leaders of Hamas either dead or still living should seize all the money to give to the ordinary Gazans after Hamas are gone.

ImmediateReaction · 28/03/2025 08:40

Emilyschinchilla · 27/03/2025 15:55

I watched an interview with a former officer in the British army. He now goes into war zones to try to find out the reality of what is happening. He investigated the 50,000 casuality number, remembering this figure come from Hamas who rule Gaza. Firstly, he said these figures are comprised of all who have died since the war began. Not just those who died because of the war. A quarter of those 50,000 are people who would have died anyway even if there had been no war. Secondly those figures do not distinguish between Hamas fighters and civilians, they are all bundled in together. Thirdly, he uncovered evidence of Hamas manipulating the figures such as counting young adults as children. And so he went on.

Also urban warfare does have a high death count. Its unavoidable. But Israel has forewarned civilians to evacuate ( a courtesy Hamas did not extend on October 7th nor has it in subsequent terrorist attacks in Israel - yes they are still sending terrorists into Israel to murder civilians) - the huge number of Gazans we saw returning to Gaza in the recent ceasefire is testament to the success of this in saving civilian lives.

At the end of the day, wars end because one side is so comprehensively destroyed it realises it cannot continue. That means a lot of death. Though in this case, Hamas actually could have ended the war (that it never needed to start) by releasing the hostages and laying down arms.

I blame Hamas firmly for all the Israeli and Gazan suffering.

Sensible post quoting where deaths might cine from in total nit tge screaming narrative usually seen on these threads.

ImmediateReaction · 28/03/2025 08:45

wrongthinker · 27/03/2025 07:39

Wow that is incredibly brave.

I hope it at least gives the anti-Israel people here some pause and reflection.

I doubt it. Hatred of Israel trumps the ability to realise that Hamas want conflict. Where were all those Hamas go signs ?

ImmediateReaction · 28/03/2025 09:21

ScrollingLeaves · 27/03/2025 15:37

From Haaretz
This OPINION is worth reading I think.

Will Human Rights Groups Join Gazans in Condemning Hamas?
This is a moment of truth. Every human rights organization must speak out, clearly and unequivocally, in support of the protesters, against Hamas's repression, and against the Israeli government's dismissal of their voices

Amnesty International suspended its local Israeli chapter in January, in part because we made Hamas' crimes, against Israelis as well as Palestinians, salient. Before the suspension took place I, as the deputy director encountered a troubling pattern: a tendency by the movement to minimize and downplay legitimate and important criticism of Hamas. Now, as courageous Palestinians in Gaza rise up and protest against Hamas and the ongoing war, this moment is a moral reckoning for the human rights world.

Senior figures in Amnesty International's movement demanded that we remove a position paper published on rhetoric dehumanizing Israelis and glorifying Hamas used among certain progressive circles in the West, particularly in the United States. Members of Amnesty International hinted that condemning Hamas too much may bolster the Israeli narrative. A universal commitment to human rights means refusing to play the zero-sum game of political legitimation. After all, Amnesty's criticism of Israel could just as easily be seen as serving the Iranian narrative – a regime that is clearly oppressive – yet this has never been, and should never be a reason to avoid speaking out against Israel. But my words fell on deaf ears.

Some of us from the <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/PTRC3/www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-01-08/ty-article-magazine/.premium/absurd-and-tragic-israeli-chapter-responds-to-suspension-from-amnesty-international/00000194-465e-dff1-a7bc-dfff1e320000" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">suspended Israeli chapter of Amnesty have since launched the now-independent Pro-Human Campaign. This new initiative seeks to address the blind spots of much of the global human rights community, specifically in this regard.

Although we have spoken out forcefully against Israel's conduct, we were still branded as "hasbara," agents of Israeli propaganda, simply because we called out Hamas's atrocities against both Israelis and Palestinians, alongside Israel's human rights abuses.

Now, Palestinians in Gaza are calling for peace, and are rejecting Hamas' repressive rule. There are increasing reports that Hamas is violently suppressing these demonstrations.

These protesters, trapped between two oppressive regimes, have endured unimaginable suffering throughout the last year and a half of war, waged by Israel. Its campaign against Gaza has been marked by numerous actions that likely constitute severe war crimes.

And yet, these protesters understand Hamas's central role in their tragedy: that the October 7 massacre of Israeli civilians gave Israel the political license to unleash unrestrained violence; that Hamas's continued holding of hostages serves as a limitless pretext for Israel's ongoing military assault; that Hamas protected only its own members (in tunnels) from bombings, while leaving civilians exposed; and that, fundamentally, Hamas is a brutal, authoritarian regime that treats the civilian population as a means to its own ends – even if it costs them their lives.

These protests are not only courageous. They are deeply moving.
They represent the true victims of this war: alongside the Israeli hostages and the victims of the massacre, these are the civilians whose suffering has gone unheard.

They also directly challenge Israel's extremist government: any continued assault on civilians calling for peace will lay bare the fact that this is not about self-defense.

This is a moment of truth. Every human rights organization must speak out, clearly and unequivocally, in support of the protesters, against Hamas's repression, and against the Israeli government's disregard of their voices. This is a test of our shared humanity. To date, voices of support for the protesters are rare in the human rights field.

nd yet, these protesters understand Hamas's central role in their tragedy: that the October 7 massacre of Israeli civilians gave Israel the political license to unleash unrestrained violence; that Hamas's continued holding of hostages serves as a limitless pretext for Israel's ongoing military assault; that Hamas protected only its own members (in tunnels) from bombings, while leaving civilians exposed; and that, fundamentally, Hamas is a brutal, authoritarian regime that treats the civilian population as a means to its own ends – even if it costs them their lives.

These protests are not only courageous. They are deeply moving.
They represent the true victims of this war: alongside the Israeli hostages and the victims of the massacre, these are the civilians whose suffering has gone unheard.

They also directly challenge Israel's extremist government: any continued assault on civilians calling for peace will lay bare the fact that this is not about self-defense.

This is a moment of truth. Every human rights organization must speak out, clearly and unequivocally, in support of the protesters, against Hamas's repression, and against the Israeli government's disregard of their voices. This is a test of our shared humanity. To date, voices of support for the protesters are rare in the human rights field.

I tried to share this on AIBU and mn swiftly deleted it. Seems sharing truths about how Amnesty suppressed criticism of Israel isn't allowed! Says its because 'its behind a paywall' the number of items shared on mn behind paywalls and copied previously seems to have been missed! Strange

ImmediateReaction · 28/03/2025 09:23

Seems OK to criticise Israel on mn but try to post a report stating how Amnesty admit they didn't condemn Hamas enough and why gets deleted.

Disgusting.

ImmediateReaction · 28/03/2025 09:55

@scrolling

Your really interesting article about Amnesty. May I ask if it was behind a paywall originally?

Emilyschinchilla · 28/03/2025 10:07

Amnesty stopped being a human rights organisation a long time ago. Instead its a extremely prejudiced ' some rights for people we like, and removing rights from people we dislike and will demonise' organisation. Its remarkable they can't see what they have become.

ImmediateReaction · 28/03/2025 10:25

Emilyschinchilla · 28/03/2025 10:07

Amnesty stopped being a human rights organisation a long time ago. Instead its a extremely prejudiced ' some rights for people we like, and removing rights from people we dislike and will demonise' organisation. Its remarkable they can't see what they have become.

They appear to admit that they were biased towards a terrorist organisation and against Israel.

I personally think there has been a lot of silence around condemnation of Hamas, particularly around the rapes of Israeli women duringOctober7th. There was a lot of 'prove it' type disgraceful comments. I must say that made me support Israel more, since the apparent lack of condemnation because it was Israeli women was shocking.

I think the type of reluctance of organisations like Amnesty to condemn Hamas is appalling.

Emilyschinchilla · 28/03/2025 11:02

ImmediateReaction · 28/03/2025 10:25

They appear to admit that they were biased towards a terrorist organisation and against Israel.

I personally think there has been a lot of silence around condemnation of Hamas, particularly around the rapes of Israeli women duringOctober7th. There was a lot of 'prove it' type disgraceful comments. I must say that made me support Israel more, since the apparent lack of condemnation because it was Israeli women was shocking.

I think the type of reluctance of organisations like Amnesty to condemn Hamas is appalling.

Yes, its basically the refusal to support Israelis when a deliberate mass atrocity was committed against them that led to me supporting Israel.

That laid bare the racist demonisation that has happened against Israelis. I cannot do anything other than condemn that,

I heard a commentator said that when the Jihadists 'Beatles' beheaded people everyone was appalled by that and could see the utter barbarity of it, and how that exacerbated the terribleness of the murder. No-one tried to minimise it or say 'well they only killed a few people.' Yet when Hamas committed and recorded and gloried of acts of deliberate barbarity and cruelty, people instantly started to minimise and defend or excuse or mitigate it. Its been such an eye opener to me about how easy it is to get people to dehumanise other groups of humans, even, or perhaps especially, those who consider themselves the 'good guys.'

ImmediateReaction · 28/03/2025 11:11

Emilyschinchilla · 28/03/2025 11:02

Yes, its basically the refusal to support Israelis when a deliberate mass atrocity was committed against them that led to me supporting Israel.

That laid bare the racist demonisation that has happened against Israelis. I cannot do anything other than condemn that,

I heard a commentator said that when the Jihadists 'Beatles' beheaded people everyone was appalled by that and could see the utter barbarity of it, and how that exacerbated the terribleness of the murder. No-one tried to minimise it or say 'well they only killed a few people.' Yet when Hamas committed and recorded and gloried of acts of deliberate barbarity and cruelty, people instantly started to minimise and defend or excuse or mitigate it. Its been such an eye opener to me about how easy it is to get people to dehumanise other groups of humans, even, or perhaps especially, those who consider themselves the 'good guys.'

Totally agree with you. I'm still appalled by the reaction or lack of reaction to what was a mass terrorist attack. The excuses and minimisation was shocking.

The marches in support of Palestine when their designated leaders and assorted other groups plus some Palestinian residents took part in the mass attacks just after the attack was repulsive.

MiseryIn · 28/03/2025 11:24

If the pro Palestinian protests moved to anti-Hamas I would support them. I won’t support them with the current narrative.

i hope this gains momentum. The constant anti-isreali rhetoric is ignorant.

Twiglets1 · 28/03/2025 12:48

MiseryIn · 28/03/2025 11:24

If the pro Palestinian protests moved to anti-Hamas I would support them. I won’t support them with the current narrative.

i hope this gains momentum. The constant anti-isreali rhetoric is ignorant.

That’s how I feel too.

ImmediateReaction · 28/03/2025 13:32

MiseryIn · 28/03/2025 11:24

If the pro Palestinian protests moved to anti-Hamas I would support them. I won’t support them with the current narrative.

i hope this gains momentum. The constant anti-isreali rhetoric is ignorant.

Same here

LittleBigHead · 28/03/2025 13:53

Emilyschinchilla · 28/03/2025 10:07

Amnesty stopped being a human rights organisation a long time ago. Instead its a extremely prejudiced ' some rights for people we like, and removing rights from people we dislike and will demonise' organisation. Its remarkable they can't see what they have become.

I lost any faith in them over all the sexual misconduct they've presided over, including their advocacy of trafficking and prostituting women (ie rape) as "sex work."

OpheliaWasntMad · 28/03/2025 14:36

ImmediateReaction · 28/03/2025 10:25

They appear to admit that they were biased towards a terrorist organisation and against Israel.

I personally think there has been a lot of silence around condemnation of Hamas, particularly around the rapes of Israeli women duringOctober7th. There was a lot of 'prove it' type disgraceful comments. I must say that made me support Israel more, since the apparent lack of condemnation because it was Israeli women was shocking.

I think the type of reluctance of organisations like Amnesty to condemn Hamas is appalling.

I agree 💯

OpheliaWasntMad · 28/03/2025 14:37

MiseryIn · 28/03/2025 11:24

If the pro Palestinian protests moved to anti-Hamas I would support them. I won’t support them with the current narrative.

i hope this gains momentum. The constant anti-isreali rhetoric is ignorant.

I absolutely agree and this has been my position from the beginning