Can someone explain Islamophobia to me?

[BaMamma]

I don't think I have an irrational fear of Muslims, but I think I have a reasonable concern about radical Islam, does that make me Islamophobic?

No, but there is one that says that if a regime forces one group of people to be fully covered in public, it is an oppressive regime.

Copy paste repeat

It's true, there are still a few regressive employers who force female employees to wear heels, and skirts, but there isn't a government edict to force them to do that and they still have the freedom to find other employment.

So objecting to niqab and burka is not Islamophobia then.

Yes it is islamaphobic to object to only these face coverings on the basis of public safety and emancipation of women because only Muslims wear them but not all wear them and the vast majority do choose to wear them. In addition, there is no threat to public safety unless you think that Muslims are inherently a threat.

The OP is concerned about covering women’s faces, not Islam.
No she’s not. Her entire thread is I’m not Islamaphobic but…. lists concerns about Islam…

I’m perfectly happy for women who have free choice, to choose Islam and to dress modestly. I will object to regimes that force women to stay indoors, prevent them Speaking or being seen outdoors, prevent than speaking outside the family. That I object to massively.

Your views expressed here are not islamaphobic. Hopefully you can see the difference between yours and the OPs.

I don’t agree with this. If you are not a Muslim, which 95% of British people are not, then Muslims literally are ‘different’. It’s not a narrative. It’s perfectly legitimate to say you don’t agree with Islam or that you don’t want Islamic culture to be a significant force in the UK. That’s exactly what most people in Middle Eastern countries would say about Christianity or possibly atheism.

Obviously that does not justify insults, sweeping untruths, discrimination or violence. All these would be manifestations of Islamophobia.

There’s no government edict in the US or U.K. to force women to wear niqab, burka either. So I suggest you view them in the same way as high heels.

I’m not a Muslim so I can’t speak to that with any authority other than I have a few Muslim friends (women) and they choose to cover up as they see it obeying God’s command. And I don’t see why the French or any other law should prevent them from following their beliefs. Other religions don’t ask this and that’s up to them. I know women who are not covering up because of the Taliban. There are many normal women who make their religious choices freely and they shouldn’t have their beliefs conflated with those of extremists like the Taliban or others.

Women that wear them in the US or UK are responding to edicts given by religious elders in the countries where they, or their version of the religion, originated. It is literally not their free will, but the will of their religious leaders, and their culture.

Agree, but on the other hand if there were a regime forcing women to be uncovered in public that is equally repressive in my view.

It is tit for tat- but ultimately still men exerting control over women’s choices of clothing. No woman should be tossed into jail for failing to wear a burkini or for wearing a burkini….

Nope. That’s an Islamaphobic far right trope of “shadow Sharia law”

Just to say, without wanting to cast doubt on any individual poster here, who I’m sure are in earnest, there have been a load of innocent-seeming threads seeking to relativise hatred and mumsnet do not seem to have a handle on it at all. Examples: ‘I don’t know what right-wing means’, ‘Is Elon Musk doing a nazi salute?’ Etc. It’s a well-known tactic for the online influence operations that we know exist, they try to plant doubt where it doesn’t really exist.

And while I wouldn’t want to prevent anyone’s speech or stymie discussion (though it’s a common misconception that we have the same right to free speech in the UK that Americans have, not the case), online forums are vulnerable. Take what you read online with a pinch of salt. At least with newspapers and traditional media, we knew who owns them and what their positions are.

Yes, it’s amazing how women in Iran are risking flogging or worse, just to opt out of wearing this ‘simple piece of clothing, not dissimilar to a ski mask or high heels’.

I'm literally asking where the line is between reasonable concern and irrational fear. I think it is reasonable to be concerned about those elements of Islam that oppress women and face coverings are a symbol of that.

Various posters seem to want to defend the Islamic oppression of women by pointing out 'not all Muslims' which is unhelpful because it's clear I'm not talking about the ones that aren't oppressing women with face coverings etc.

Would you live under Sharia Law?

So if you’re a young girl in an Islamic community in the UK and you decide to uncover your head and start wearing a miniskirt, what happens? High fives? My impression is that this would not be OK but I may obviously be wrong (I would hope so)

What on earth is traditional Christian clothing?

Not trying to derail - but raised as Catholic, lived in a Christian country my entire life. Never heard of traditional Christian clothing.

Stilettos apparently 😂

So, you think that's funny, @SummerFeverVenice?

You know that in both the before and after photos that the women were all Muslims? It’s extremism in 2 of many countries that are majority Muslim that you have highlighted here, not an issue with the religion itself.

Summer Fever, it's not our aim to be a North African country - as you put it - or to copy any countries at all? This small island is one of the most successful thriving countries in the world where all humans are valued and equal and women enjoy some of the highest in the world equality with men?

It's not a great goal becomign a corrupt third world country where every tribe is out for themselves that only values money and power, treats women as inferior?

You are welcome to leave and see for yourself what freedom you can enjoy in the countries that practice the religion you are so supportive of - unless you are an 80 year old widow , probably none.

People in the Uk, like in other civilised countries are allowed their culture and not accepting certain oppressive things which is why close to a million a year try to make it a home?

It’s funny because it is not true. It is word for word parroting far right islamaphobic influencers.

Whoooop! You got it! It's not Islam itself, it's certain elements of it

There now, that wasn't so hard, was it?

It is literally an issue with the religion. This happened because they were Muslim. Seems to be a common direction of travel, no? Have we seen it in reverse?

You’ve missed off the ‘in order to normalise hatred’ bit. Last time I checked, trying to normalise hatred of any group who are perceived as different was not ok.

LOL - I'm about as lefty as they come, though feeling politically homeless on certain issues.