Can someone explain Islamophobia to me?

[BaMamma]

I don't think I have an irrational fear of Muslims, but I think I have a reasonable concern about radical Islam, does that make me Islamophobic?

@50GoingOn30 sorry for the delay in replying, I've been at work. For some Muslim women, choices about wearing hijab or other hair coverings, choices about face coverings, and choices about clothing in general, aren't really made with a focus on men or men's desires, but instead are made with regard to a person's own relationship with their faith.

There are texts about the importance of dressing modestly, for both men and women. How people (who wish to do so) understand and put those into practice can vary substantially. Probably the most widely practised guidance is around covering hair for prayers - whether praying alone, with other women or in a mixed/public setting. Covering hair in that context is about covering it as part of a personal relationship with God. Many women may have very personal reasons for wearing or not wearing hair coverings, face coverings, different clothing styles, etc., and many of those reasons will not be about men looking or not looking at them.

There are men who control and oppress women and use clothing as a way of doing so. This isn't unique to Islam. It is, in my opinion, contrary to the values of Islam to do so, but some Muslim men do it anyway. If any woman - Muslim or not - is feeling coerced or is being forced to wear something, then I fully support her right to resist such oppression and make her own choices. There is plenty of guidance in Islam about the importance of people making their own choices.

Among the Muslim women with whom I socialise, I'm not aware of any judgement or criticism of people for wearing or not wearing hair coverings, face coverings or different clothing styles. A group of us were out the other night and our outfits crossed a pretty broad spectrum of choices. There's bound to be judgey people out there - there always are, just check AIBU or S&B for examples - but it isn't something I've really experienced.

Ahem?

Between travel and meeting people here I think most people’s values primarily consist of banal stuff like have a secure home and being able to support your family. So yes we do all have shared values.

I always teach my kids that we all have a shared humanity and to be suspicious of arguments that want to paint a whole group of people as “not like us”

The discussion around what women wear wasn't a distraction @BaMamma . Your focus on it has been evident from the early in this thread.

Are Muslim values compatible with western values?

I'd say "Yes". Not only are Muslim values compatible with western values, they are part of them. We have been mixing, adapting, procreating and learning from eachother for more than a millenia.

I'd say that in the west we strive for tolerance, how far does that extend?

Not far if we judge women for what they wear. And not far if we think Muslim Faith = Islamic violence. How tolerant are you @BaMamma?

Why arnt non muslims allowed in madrassas and mosques unless they take the allegiance to the religion?
Does anyone here know?

Where are you getting your information from? They are allowed. I have been in my local mosque a few times and I've never had to take any allegiance to the religion

Eh? I was in a mosque to give a health promotion talk once, never had to swear to anything! My ds visited on a school trip - again no conversion to Islam required!

I mean to see their actual prayer services and be a part of the crowd where their religious head gives speeches.Also, I mean walk-in, not pre planned.

I think it just depends on the mosque. Where you turned away from your local mosque?

No it doesn't.

Radical islam or islamic extremists are worrying. Most of the terrorist concerns are around radical Islamists. Most of the terrorist attacks are from Islamic extremists. These who ignore that have their head in the sand since facts matter.

I dont want to give away too many details here, but I have visited different praying places and most were fine if I just walked in with my friend or she walks in with me without priot notice... however we both noticed that its not that way with the mosques. Some dont allow women and almost all of them dont encourage walkins..
I wonder why?,unless there is something exclusive?.Also, they prefer the crowd to be submitted and not just attend for curiosity...

I am willing to be corrected.

Did you ask them why not. It could be a security concern. A third of mosques in the UK reported at
least one religiously motivated attack per year so I imagine they would have to know whose entering.

Thats interesting to know...

I do know of the attcks on the mosques but thats usually claimed as a retaliation. Our area thankfully has never seen any riots (touch wood!)

What do you mean retaliation?

No it doesn’t.

Like when the Southport attack news and discussions about grooming gang became wide spread..
I also dont think some mosques not allowing women is related to the above

That's just horrific. Imagine targeting a religious institution for crimes of another. Like synagogues being targeted it takes a very bad person to do this and also think it's acceptable.

Again it's not a widespread policy in mosques (I know there are seperate areas) so did you ask the person that stopped you going in.

People have right to their opinions. Your facts might be different to theirs.

We asked one of our friends if we could be a part of their celebtation at the mosque and she said "I will ask for a day/time, we wont be able to just walk in".. we didnt bother her again as she wasnt very keen to either so we didnt want to spoil what we had between us, We are still friends :)

You think it is acceptable to target a synagogue,mosque or church based on the actions of others of the same faith ?

So the mosque didn't refuse you ,your friend did .

”people have a right to their opinions” what kind of a response is that? I’m sure we can all agree that we don’t think that mosques, synagogues, churches or any places of worship should be attacked because people of the actions of some people who share the religion.

I am not saying people should attack each other or its right thing to do. Please dont get triggered.
I am just saying people do have reasons ( motivations, agendas, experiences or just plain reasonal comprehension) to beleive what they beleive.

I don't think anyone is triggered.

I'm not really sure what you are trying to say tbh . But I do think it's a general consensus no place of worship should ever be attacked no matter the religion or perceived motivated.

I don't think it makes you Islamophobic to have a reasonable concern about radical Islam @BaMamma

Religious extremists are scary people and that is true of other religions too. As an atheist, I have concerns about religion generally but it's the extremists who cause the most trouble. And we do unfortunately have experiences of Islamic terrorism in the West that have heightened fears of radical Islam.

As long as you are not someone that equates normal Muslims with radical Islam (sure you aren't from your responses) then it is wrong for people to accuse you of Islamophobia.

General criticism of any religion - or atheism - is part of free speech even if others don't necessarily agree with your opinions.

Yes I hope that is something we can all agree on.

Agreed.
History had dark ages when thousands of Churches and temples were destroyed in europe and asia.Atleast now, in most parts of the world its considered wrong.