Can someone explain Islamophobia to me?

[BaMamma]

I don't think I have an irrational fear of Muslims, but I think I have a reasonable concern about radical Islam, does that make me Islamophobic?

Are the women in Iran and Afghanistan freely choosing the veil?

How does niqab or burka fail on equality? Oh wait, you must be unaware of the sects where the men veil….

Lol, no one forces women to wear high heels outside the house? You are woefully ignorant of many existing work dress codes that require female employees to wear high heels.

I find this baffling, such unwavering support for a culture that would reject them entirely.

No. But they are not representative of all Muslim women in the world.
And certainly, in your “Pacific NW” corner of the USA you can bet your bottom dollar that barring domestic violence situations the women ARE freely choosing what they wear.

No, but their oppression raises reasonable concerns about certain aspects of Islam.

In the UK? Which? But again - even if there are such policies (waiting for your evidence that this happens at all, let alone is widespread) no woman is forced to do a certain job.

I live in London, a multicultural city. I have seen plenty of fully veiled women. Never once seen a man like that.

You’re surely not comparing apples ans pears again are you?

Yes, you are islamaphobic. Do you feel the same way about Christianity? What with Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons roaming free in your backyard? Obviously not. You’re not having “reasonable concerns” about Christians or objecting to the wearing of traditional Christian clothing in public spaces out of concern for public safety.

Perhaps we can take a more positive view and list the things not to be afraid of in Islam. That would surely counter any irrational fears. When we become an officially Islamic country, which seems to be our future, what do we British women have to look forward to please?

Notions of left and right are breaking down, along with the full-scale dismantling of the liberal order as it has been since the end of WW2. It’s true that women’s rights are under threat on all sides of that.

I haven't seen any women in burqa or niqabs here in the PNW, I did see quite a few when I lived in London, and I don't believe it was freely chosen.

I also saw small girls from Muslim families at my daughter's primary school, covered head to toe, which I thought was a form of abuse as they couldn't run around and climb in their full-length skirts.

According to Fondapol, a French think tank, between 1979 and May 2021, at least 48,035 Islamist terrorist attacks took place worldwide, causing the deaths of at least 210,138 people. During this period, each Islamist attack resulted in the death of about 4.4 persons on average.

How close do you think Jehovah’s Witnesses or Mormons are to this number?

Also the ‘what with Jehovah’s Witnesses’ suggests you have some pretty bigoted views of your own?

Stop worrying about being Islamophobic,
Just disregard religion, skin colour, dress sense and take people as they come.

You can get to know them, find out how they think and if they do turn out to be a radical Muslim, you can try and talk them down.

Well yes exactly! Those religions are not remotely scary. Islam is! You’ve illustrated that very well.

if they do turn out to be a radical Muslim, you can try and talk them down.

I would love to see what this conversation would look like?

Christian's, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Mormons do not insist on covering women entirely!! That's an absurd comparison.

I do actually object to Jehovah's Witnesses bringing children along with them and always say so if they come to my door, "that kid should be out playing with their friends, not being dragged around on your missionary business!"

The point is that women freely choose to wear items that even actively damage them and as baffling as that might be to you because you are from a different culture, it doesn’t mean all women that wear certain items are being forced to wear them.

London isn’t the centre of the world. Go to N Africa and you will see Muslim sects where the tradition is for men to veil and not the women.

You still haven’t answers how niqab and burka “fail” on the equality score. What’s your measure?

😂😂😂 try and talk them down! Yeah right!

I have an ex-Muslim friend who became a Christian and had to go into hiding from his family because they were going to make him ex-alive. His own family!

Talk them down! It’s a death cult for many people!

BINGO - we got to cultural relativism!!

I totally agree with this. Many many Muslim women prefer to be covered up and it’s their right to wear what they want how they want. It shouldn’t be confused with anything else. I thought the French law outrageous. Men telling women what to wear again because men know better than silly women.

I suspect it would take the form of actions, not words

We can see this from societies that are free of such religions and their influences in that literally nobody chooses to cover themselves in that way. In societies and communties where women are harshly prosecuted and ostracised for showing skin, they make a "free" choice, in your view?? Little girls are taught that from birth, they see it all around them, they are brainwashed and controlled from birth. The punishment for non compliance is always there. Go outside uncovered to tbe degreee expected by someone else or be seen talking to a man and not only you but your sisters, daughters, your mum, nieces will be viewed a certain way and will probably become unmarriaggable and whole families ostracised - various degrees of that course but always a factor.

The heels are oppressive in a benevolent sexism way so completely different and the wearers aren't there to imply that the native population are immodest slags for not wearing them. The whole generation of women in the family wouldn't get dishonoured or disowned if the wearer chooses to wear or not to wear them. Nobody forces them on anyone. Your example isn't comparable and you show no critical thinking.
I doubt you understant oppression, religion you are trying to discuss, or feminism.

So objecting to niqab and burka is not Islamophobia then. Covering women’s faces is not an essential part of Islam, as you say. The OP is concerned about covering women’s faces, not Islam. So she’s not Islamophobic

I’m perfectly happy for women who have free choice, to choose Islam and to dress modestly.

I will object to regimes that force women to stay indoors, prevent them Speaking or being seen outdoors, prevent than speaking outside the family. That I object to massively.

You are unnecessarily hyper focused on what women are wearing. There isn’t an easy measuring stick that says more clothing= more oppressed and less clothing=more free.

You need me to explain how being fully covered from head to foot 'fails' on the equality score?

I really don't know what to tell you

I don’t agree with laws banning women from wearing anything- but if wearing a hijab is a complete choice how come no non Muslim
women opt to cover themselves.