Can someone explain Islamophobia to me?

[BaMamma]

I don't think I have an irrational fear of Muslims, but I think I have a reasonable concern about radical Islam, does that make me Islamophobic?

I disagree. The main reasons people kill each other is men wanting more power/land/riches.
Sometimes the men will make up reasons to try and justify their war/action, and religion maybe one of their scapegoats, but at the end if the day it’s always men wanting more power.
Look at North Korea, Stalin, China Tiananmen Square, Nazis. Scientists don’t come off that well either - look at the Nazi eugenics experiments. No religion there.
You get evil and extremism wherever there are humans.

It is perfectly rational for women, gay people and anyone who values a liberal democracy to fear political Islam and sharia law.

Which is odd, as the support for a Palestinian state is generally from the left wing.

Not really odd… she said rational.

But we're talking about the strands of Islam that do require women to be fully covered as an aspect to be reasonably concerned by and whether that concern is Islamophobic. I don't think it is.

Don’t be disingenuous the OP specifically objected to niqab and burka. They were targeting only Muslim face coverings for women.

No, they don’t. But only Muslim women cover themselves head to toe in the name of their faith. And that is contrary to both the laws (of treating men and women equally) and of our culture.

I already view high heels as equivalent to foot binding. I don't understand why so many women subject themselves to pain, the risk of deformity, and restricting their ability to walk or run.

"Modesty" clothing isn't compatible with feminism, the concept is everything women and men in a civilised society fought against. What is "immodesty" clothing then? What are the "immodest" women wearing it, what do we call them? Why do we need such beliefs when we fought against such prejudice about women in the past?
This isn't how Europeans in the West think and we don't need to suddenly adopt attitudes from oppresive cultures of faraway lands of 1500 years ago in order to appease anyone.
We are free to discuss and criticise anything we want in our democratic society.
Nobody born fully free would choose to cover themselves like that.
And the fact that you think it's okay to support oppression of women in this way because of their race, shows how absolutely racist you are.
UK is one of the most tolerant societies in the world. Nowhere else has been giving up own culture and beliefs to accommodate someone else's completely incompatible with civilised society religious beliefs.
Perhaps educate yourself on the subject first. Like all racists you probably have a very limited understanding of the religion you are defending and have managed to stay away from it all your life.

I wouldn’t overthink it. If it clip clops like a horse etc. it’s unlikely to be a zebra. It’s irrational fear of Muslims, just like antisemitism is irrational fear of Jews. At the moment we have tacit messages everywhere in the media (all media, including social) that promote fear of Muslims and seek to tell a narrative about their difference to normalise hatred, same as back before the holocaust, same shit different era. Everyone bending over backwards to make an exception stick, tell their story like ‘this nazi salute is different’, we all know what it is, who it’s aimed at and what it means, mate.

No you weren’t. You were objecting to niqab and burka in public spaces due to public safety and the emancipation of women, as in you object to every and any woman wearing them.

You assumed all women wearing them were not doing it by choice due to an islamaphobic trope that Muslim women have no choice about covering their hair/face.

If you were concerned about extremist Islamic strands you wouldn’t have said the above.

You would have said you’re concerned about extremists like Taliban.

We don’t bang on about Christian women having no choice and we should ban long dresses and hair coverings in public when what we really mean are fundamentalist Christian cults like Gloriavale.

Just admit it, you are stereotyping all Muslims based on a few extremist examples.

This is gaslighting. We have eyes and ears. We see what’s happening in the world and in our country. It’s like we’re supposed to bear witness to events and not have any thoughts about it. It’s bullshit.

So what that they dress differently? That’s their choice. And if we are going to treat men and women equally then hands off telling women what we can wear. I don’t see anyone fighting to force men to show more skin….wonder why that is?

What?

Very few people fear Jews- they hate Jews, that’s what antisemitism (I’m Jewish.)
Islamophobia is fear of Muslims- for a western modern generation that saw 9/11, the rise of isis, 7/7, numerous car rammings- that’s how it’s come about.

Well, fear/hatred… if you want to make the distinction and claim that one mass hatred of a people is acceptable and another isn’t, go right ahead, but it won’t stick. My response is to the question in the title, it’s fairly uncontroversial.

Nobody born fully free would choose to cover themselves like that.

Well, that is ridiculous and based in ignorance. I don’t understand how any women born fully free would choose to wear high heels, but they obviously do.

Feminism isn’t about women being forced to dress the way you or anyone eise thinks a born fully free woman should dress. Feminism is the freedom for every woman to choose for herself.

Yes - of course atheists can be extreme.
When they are intolerant of other belief systems and persecute people of faith it is a form of extreme radical atheism. ( eg North Korea / Stalin’s Russia / China’s persecution of Uiyghars etc )

Oh don't worry, there's plenty of hatred for Muslims, often even whipped up by politicians and the media. Oh and often seen on mumsnet too.

The definition is right here, top of the thread.

It is not a free choice, it is a choice made within the confines of a patriarchal, sexist religion and culture. Of course, because we are a democratic country (unlike Islamic countries) we don’t have laws against what people wear. But that doesn’t mean they are aligning with our values.

I would consider an irrational phobia something like being afraid of heights, wasps, spiders or public speaking so something you can't consciously control so different to a prejudice or resentment to a particular group or culture that you feel is inferior or don't relate to, which is where I feel the term ( ism) comes in.

Nobody is talking about legislating, no need to overdramatise. OP is entitled to say whatever she wants and express her opinions. This is how democracies and free speech tolerant societies operate.

There would have been nothing wrong with legislating against oppressive religious dress that covers whole body of one sex only and that is entirely restrictive. Permitting abuse and oppression of women and girls because of a religion is racist.

That is a very flimflammy version of feminism. Feminism is at the very least about equality (so wearing the niqab or burka fails in that score) and is about female liberation from the patriarchy, which is not possible within the confines of a patriarchal religion or culture.

And no one forces women to wear high heels every time they leave the house.

Your analogies are nonsense.

Yes, the result was massacres, persecution, even genocides.