Can someone explain Islamophobia to me?

[BaMamma]

I don't think I have an irrational fear of Muslims, but I think I have a reasonable concern about radical Islam, does that make me Islamophobic?

Yes - and let’s remember lots of Iranian Muslim women are not in favour of full face covering. They are not Islamaphobic. It’s a view as women we are entitled to take.

That is true.

People in the UK are allowed to express their opinions on things like this.

Many also hold opinions on things like how the orthodox Jewish community dresses and behaves, which they are also free to express.

Did myself or Ellen say any of those things were acceptable?
I just read on the Batley teacher I never heard of it 5 years ago. Yes it wasn't acceptable just like the grooming gangs. Child safety is more important than anything else including religion.

However we were responding to posters who were taking issue with Muslims eating pork, wearing head coverings and separating men and women.

How did you not hear about the Batley teacher and his family - it was literally all over the media at the time?

Not many posters said anything about Muslims eating pork or separating men and women - maybe 1 or 2? Better to challenge those that did so directly if you don't think they have the right to express their opinions.

Do you understand that fears about being accused of Islamaphobia meant that the authorities ( police, social workers, councils) were reluctant to take the correct action in the case of the Batley teacher, the grooming gangs, Sara Sharif.

There is , undeniably, prejudice against ordinary law abiding Muslims ( as there is against Jewish people, people of colour, Catholics, etc etc )
But a knee jerk accusation of Islamaphobia without any basis is counter productive.

How many posters on here did actually complain about Muslims not eating pork?
Or even head covering (provided we’re talking about grown women and not primary school girls)?
Face covering is a different issue.

Considering Islam forbids extramarital sex and abuse, you cannot call grooming gangs a “Muslim problem”. These crimes go against Islamic teachings.

This was a cultural and criminal issue, not a religious one. Conflating race and religion is exactly how Islamophobia works, as you are taking the actions of some individuals and projecting them onto an entire faith.

Yes there were huge failures by the police who failed to act as they didn’t want to appear racist, but you also can’t ignore that the majority of grooming gangs are white, and that there are men in this county who are even able to have such gangs is the real problem.

The attitudes towards white working class girls were part and parcel of misogynistic extremist Islamist beliefs- It right to call out those attitudes and to say that extreme and misogynistic Islamism has no place in our society.

You say that Islam forbids extramarital sex and child abuse but it seems that some extremists interpret the texts differently. Yazidi sex slaves , child brides in Pakistani etc

The usual circular argument here.

As I have said - it is the scope of issues on this thread that is revealing.

Also the denial of the existence of Islamophobia as being prejudice against Muslims. That is worrying.

Muslims undoubtedly face prejudice. There are attacks on mosques, verbal assaults in the street and physical threats and attacks. These are all completely and unequivocally appalling.
Nobody should feel unsafe or mocked or scorned when they go about their daily business.

Criticism of aspects of extreme Muslim beliefs is not the same thing.
Criticism of the way the accusation of Islamaphobia is used to stifle debate is valid.

Has anyone denied that Muslims face prejudice? I don't think so. It's a sad fact of life, as is antisemitism, racism etc.

That doesn't mean that people shouldn't feel able to discuss their concerns about Islamic extremists, the grooming gangs or what happened to the Batley teacher and his family.

Well said 👏

You're not going to shut down discussion because you are taking offence. That's on you. Nobody is crossing any lines and are free to discredit your opinions.

Or rather assertions @Ellen2shoes

Just to clarify about the grooming gangs . A home office report found that most grooming gang perpetrators are white males? Are you only referring to the highly publicised cases involving Pakistani Muslim men?

The one I actually responded too.

I have read the last couple of pages a few times now and I cannot understand how it went from me discussing that with another poster to being told shame on me for being complicit in sex crimes.

What a strange overreaction.

The point is that we can have a discussion about hijabs being appropriate is public sector roles without breaching any law or guidance on agree country. Personally there may be an argument that we consider overt declaration of faith in a health care setting in the interest of showing the NH S is a secular organisation with the patient at its core. You could argue if you wanted religion is something that needs not invade every area of public life. Some may agree and others disagree but still the debate shouldn't automatically lead to post deletions or whatever. Th at is the problem with Islamophobia, it acts a shield to prevent any debate about Islam and that is worrying. People may not like what you say but they have a right to say it.

Holy Moly.

Responding to a thread entitled ‘can someone explain Islamophobia’ by declaring it to be a word which means to stifle criticism of Islam is …… a denial of the actual meaning.

What other word do you all think defines prejudice against Muslims?

Christianophobia sounds like a good word........all that mockery against Christians .....denial that Christ is the Son of God....etc. Should that be a thing now?

Maybe we just adding e with religion the right it should not be critically questioned?

Error

The word exists and is right to exist, in my opinion.

It just shouldn’t be used to stifle legitimate concerns as is being attempted on this thread. Muslims aren’t exempt from criticism, no group is.

If we were saying all Muslims are bad then that would be Islamophobia but no one on this thread is saying that.