Can someone explain Islamophobia to me?

[BaMamma]

I don't think I have an irrational fear of Muslims, but I think I have a reasonable concern about radical Islam, does that make me Islamophobic?

I don't and you dont need to tell me. However, have you expended as much energy in researching zionism have you Islam? That's another question you dont need to answer, of course.

I don’t see how this is relevant and would prefer to focus on the topic of the thread.

Are islamists fighting themselves?

Bye Hazel, limited time and none for this. Perhaps you could broach another poster if it’s a 121 convo you’re after.

My mistake.i thought we were on a forum, where a range of ideas and opinions are exchanged. My bad.

I maybe have similar thoughts for other religions however what aboutery for an extremely small number of Jews does not distract from what many feel is a concern and we should not feel fettered discussing this.

I have noticed in health care settings women can routinely wear the hijab as religious tolerance takes precedence against all other forms of uniform code. No one dares to debate or criticise head ware because of religous identity. If a man wore a Man United base ball cap to work as a GP and claimed he had to wear it as it was part of his identity he would quite rightly be asked to remove it is unprofessional. However if identity is connected to religion the rules go out the window and you can wear what you wish basically.

There are often pieces about nurses being asked to remove crucifixes as it is inappropriate in a health care setting to openly show religion in case a patient suspects some kind of bias in their treatment views. Similarly if a woman wore a scarf saying I love Jesus there would I am sure a request to remove such an article.....the hijab however..........

How on earth does a hijab, which covers a health practioners hair and is probably more hygienic than having hair on display, hurt anyone?

It's not whataboutery at all.

You have made a lot of posts on issues with Muslims and their adherence to religious rules.

However they are not the only religion to cover their hair, dress modestly segregate males and females and not eat pork but you never mention that. Numbers are irrelevant, if you have an issue with one religion dictating that you surely have an issue with any religion that enforces these rules.

(I don't have an issue with either religion enforcing them btw just so I don't get accused of anything)

No idea.
No part of the face is covered just the hair. Surgical caps do the same job so it would be interesting to see what the actual issue with them being worn is.

Presumably you applied the same objections to Christian nuns? Wearers of full face helmets? To name but two?

It doesn't hurt anyone physically but we have uniform policy for a reason to ensure uniformity. It is a means of ensuring patients understand the way that treatment and care is given is in no way subject to external bias or religious views. The NHS banned Palestinian flags as insignia on NHS uniforms for good reason yet some laughably claim that the policy is Islamophobic as the Palestinian flag is part of an 'Islamic identity'. I think you could put up an argument there should be no visible display of religous observance in hospitals when treating patients yet I bet if some one tried to advocate this there would be cried of heinous Islapmaophobia.

Have you ever heard of equality and diversity in the workplace?

You are jumping about @mids2019 .

Wearing a hijab does not indicate that practioners are biased.

So there's actually no reason a hijab should not be allowed.

Not sure why you are bringing Palestine into this.

Almost as if people are looking for a cause to complain.

I think they may.be doing just that.

If you think anyone has made an Islamophobic post, report them.

There has been no bullying or denigration of the Muslim community on this thread. As @OpheliaWasntMad says, most people here know that the vast majority of Muslims are good people.

We aren't talking about the majority of Muslims when we express concerns about intolerance of Western culture, grooming gangs, death threats, curtailment of free speech and concerns about vulnerable children being forced to wear the hijab like poor Sara Sharif.

You’ve conveniently omitted to mention the elements of Islamic extremism that have caused understandable fear and outrage- grooming gangs / Batley teacher / terrorist attacks etc

Fear of Islam has been intensified by the extremist Muslims - and then this in turn has become a toxic subject matter because people like you are so quick to accuse others of “Islamaphobia “.
Why can’t I criticise full face coverings?
Why shouldn’t I be allowed to criticise Mohammed? Don’t get me wrong- I don’t approve of deliberately offending people… but it is more important that people aren’t terrorised and driven into hiding because they have offended religious beliefs.
I don’t call people “ Catholicphobic” and threaten if they criticise or mock my religion. I just ignore it .

The point about regions adornment in health care is to show we have reached a point where regions tolerance trumps everything else including the necessity to ensure standards of uniform and patient wishes. It would be simpler to not allow regions symbols on uniform in the modern age but that ship has sailed.......

I haven't conveniently forgotten anything. Every single religion has extremists.

Look at the Fundamental Christians in the states. (Most worrying religion in my opinion at the moment because of their influence on government policy)
Look at the Jewish settlers who say 1 Jewish life is worth millions of Palestinians as an excuse to attack and kill.
The Catholic religion has plenty of blood on its hands in the past .
And of course there are many Muslim extremists also who should of course be criticized.

Of course you can criticise full face coverings and Mohammed if you wish. God knows social media is full of people doing just that. The same way journalists are creating false narratives that Mamdani as a Muslim should not attend 911 commemorations.
I saw a video in London of a woman standing in front of Muslims using a prayer mat and shouting at them I saw a video in Dublin of men shouting at the Muslim men who feed the homeless every night. Both times the aggressor was ignored by the victims.I wish they could keep their opinion to themselves.

This thread hasn’t just been about those things though. It has been a catalogue of complaints about Muslim dress, diet, activities, speech, religious practice, proliferation ….. conflated with references to grooming gangs and death threats to complete the negative picture.

Islamophobia can be openly ugly but also incredibly insidious.

I won’t report the thread because I think it shows how Islamophobia works and that’s what the OP asked about. I wonder if MN would remove it if I did?

Most of us have absolutely no problem with normal Muslim families going about their business like everyone else. I have no problem with hijabs or hair coverings or food or anything else - as long as it doesn’t interfere with MY safety , security and freedom of expression.
To my mind the following are legitimate concerns

1. silence and lack of action over the grooming gangs because of fears of accusations of Islamaphobia,
2. the terrorising of the Batley teacher
3. The potential threat posed by full face covering

@Martymcfly24 @Ellen2shoes
you seem to ignore all of these concerns - Deflecting by talking about trivia

You don’t share my concerns about what happened to the teacher in Batley or what happened to the girls raped and abused by gangs across the country. The authorities ignored what happened to those girls ( and Sara Sharifs) because of fear of being accused of Islamaphobia.
It’s the accusations of Islamaphobia when legitimate concerns are raised that are the problem- the very thing you and @Ellen2shoes are doing.
Shame on you.

Ah, the nuns and the motorbike helmets again… Do nuns cover their faces? Are motorbike helmets worn for modesty reasons?

I didn't suggest you reported the whole thread and no, I doubt MN mods would delete a lively thread that a lot of people have contributed their valid opinions to.

I said, If you think anyone has made an Islamophobic post, report them.

I haven't seen any posts that stand out as Islamophobic as I think it's ok to express concern about things like full face coverings, for example. People will have different opinions on this but it doesn't mean someone is Islamophobic just because they hold an opinion that you don't like.