What does Zionism and/or anti-Zionism mean to you?

[BaMamma]

My understanding of Zionism is the belief in a Jewish homeland in the place where Judaism originated and where Jews have always lived.

My understanding of anti-Zionism is the opposite, a belief that the Jewish people don't need a homeland and that they are displacing indigenous people through colonization from Europe.

I've been told there are other interpretations of both, in particular that anti-Zionism does not preclude a Jewish state, just not there, or that anti-Zionism is actually opposed to an expansionist Greater Israel project.

It's useful to clarify terminology, so what is your understanding of these terms?

What do you mean by that please?

Here's an article in The Guardian -
"The belief that Israel’s actions amount to apartheid, ethnic cleansing and genocide are “worthy of respect in a democratic society”, an employment tribunal has concluded in a landmark decision."

I agree with David Miller

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2024/oct/14/anti-zionist-beliefs-worthy-respect-uk-tribunal-finds-israel

David Miller is a known anti Semite.

David Miller is a known anti Semite.

I'm surprised at that article, poor students.

That’s fine. We don’t need to agree with you, or David Miller.

Here are some people who do support David: https://supportmiller.org/jewish-supporters

Thank you. We don't need any validation of David Miller. He is an utterly repellant individual.

Regarding your anti-zionist beliefs, do you agree with everything David Miller is quoted as stating in that article, or just the point you pulled out?

I've never heard of the man, but I was pretty horrified by that article. He thinks Zionism is "one of the five pillars of Islamophobia"?! Would you agree with that? I find that a repulsive idea. Why is he setting Jews and Muslims up in opposition to each other?

“[Prof Miller]’s opposition to Zionism is not opposition to the idea of Jewish self-determination or of a preponderantly Jewish state existing in the world, but rather, as he defines it, to the exclusive realisation of Jewish rights to self-determination within a land that is home to a very substantial non-Jewish population." I don't even understand what he is objecting to here? It's ok for Jews to have a land as long as there are not many non-Jews there? There are hardly any Jews in the whole world, of course there is always going to be a substantial number of Jews living in a Jewish land. Why is that a problem? Does he think we can't co-exist with other people? I literally can't make head or tails of this. Does he mean that the idea of Jewish self-determination he is fine with, as long as it is not actualised?

We don't need any validation of David Miller. He is an utterly repellant individual.

Thank you. Reading those statements I agree.

I’ll repost what I put on another thread as this is my position.

I think it’s time to put this whole thing in context.

Over a million Jews were horrifically murdered in the Holocaust and God knows how many more were displaced, orphaned, or lost business/family/homes.

Britain, who Hitler didn’t really want to go to war with and probably would’ve given a softer deal, decided Nazi Germany’s invasion of Poland was unacceptable and sacrificed 400,000 soldiers and citizens to war and air strikes for the good of global peace.

At that time, countless countries lost significant numbers of people, many countries lost land or were reshaped, and millions of people were displaced. The biggest victims were the Jews, who were left (as usual) stateless and maligned.

What happened in terms of the creation of Israel and the displacement of Palestinians is not ideal, but they only went through what millions of people in the world were going through thanks to the tragic events previously. It was not a unique event and given the level of global suffering, it was not up there with the hardest done by in my opinion.

It’s time for Islamic countries to step up in providing permanent, safe homes for Palestinians because it’s very clear they will never be able to live in peace alongside Israel. What’s the alternative? More suffering and killing?

I would be very up for Western countries making significant financial donations to enable this to happen if needed.

Jews are entitled to a homeland and a safe country. Their land is tiny compared to the amount Islam has gained through conquest, but nobody ever wants to talk about that.

*6 million Jews (error which has been corrected by another poster).

6 million..

That's a roll call of shame. All the usual susoects. Miller is a reprehensible antisemite.